Talk:Starborn (3.5e Race)

Ratings
==Kind of Ugly==

This fits the above description to a T. In my opinion, it's quite hideous balance-wise. Flight and spell resistance, a mess of ability score adjustments, and bio-energy (tons of people use this, it seems, but I always seem to see it on races that have issues) do not add up to LA +0. All in all, it's not up to the standards we hold for races on this wiki since it's not really playable. - TG Cid 01:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, races never have an odd numbered modifier to an ability score. They are all even. --Havvy 03:59, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh goodness. People, Xenotheric creatures, due to their traits, tend not to be LA 0 when put into races for the same reason you don't see many LA 0 Outsider races.  Their race gives them considerable benefits.  For sake of ease I'd suggest considering Xenotheric to be LA 1 to start out.  I made Xenoblooded for all the LA 0 aliens who want "alien" but can't afford the gimmicks. -- Eiji-kun 11:46, 4 January 2011 (UTC)


 * This looks to be the author's first attempt at building a race, and likely is new to the game as well. On top of that, there are a lot of complex mechanics that are thrown in here. It's not something I'd recommend tackling without help for a newcomer to this sort of thing. I urge the author to speak up here and let us know what he was going for. We'll gladly help out, but as is, it's just not playable. --Ganteka Future 03:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)


 * ya this is my first attempt at creating a race, my goal was to create a space faring race of humanoids that could endure the harsh environment of most places in the universe but still be playable at low levels, and I would appreciate any more help you could offer for improving it. --Erreun 16:07, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * As Eiji-kun said, change the Xenotheric type to a Xenoblooded subtype. Remove telepathy and spell resistance if you want this LA 0.  Also, the whole gain a language every level is equivalent to gain a skill point every level and makes the idea of having speak language as a class skill sort of weird.  If combined with Pungeon Pendragon, you can break the RNG with how many languages can be known (20 for level + 5 starting + 24 ranks = 49 lanugages).  I'd just remove the gain a language at each level.   --Havvy 22:11, 7 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, making progress. After a quick read through we've got a logical, scientific race of traveling spacefarers. We don't know anything about their technology, so we can skip that for now, but they manage to get around with enough ease. Presumably, they keep a connected culture somehow, keeping in contact as they travel about, observe other races, and attempt to create new and useful technology. While intelligent, the planes and deeds of the gods are not beyond their understanding, and they honor them. Though the description doesn't say in the race, you do admit that they are humanoid in form. Given their height to weight ratio, I imagine they are lanky and lean, like something akin to a doppelganger in his natural form, but black and covered in possibly glowing spots. They're somehow artificial outsiders with some elemental subtypes and some blood lineage that ties them to being vastly foreign to typical humanoid places and DnD settings. As they travel, they pick up languages fairly easily. It really bothers me that they could know Druidic (as druids get severely punished for letting the language outside their circle). An entire race with knowledge of it is basically a huge kick in the face to druids everywhere. Alright, that's about it for the race summed up in flavor. You've got some stuff missing, and a few things wouldn't hurt with elaboration. On to the mechanics.
 * The ability score modifiers need an overhaul. I'd recommend just picking two ability scores and giving a +2/-2, something like +2 Intelligence and -2 Strength seems to fit the core basics of what they are. It's easiest on people trying to pick races to not have ability scores that clash with what they're after, and that skews them toward mental-based occupations and spellcasters, which feels intended. You could also go for a bonus to Constitution instead, and make up for the mental gain in some other racial trait, like a skill bonus sort of thing.
 * The types and subtypes need a good poking around. Outsider is a decent creature type and generally comes outfitted with some boons and drawbacks (Darkvision and being difficult to raise from the dead). So, outsider really isn't a big deal, but the subtypes are. I recommend dropping all the current subtypes and going with the Xenoblooded subtype as mentioned above. It's appropriate for starting characters and allows for the character to sort of "evolve into" a Xenotheric creature later if he wants (via classes and feats if I recall). Really, you'll want to keep your race at LA 0/ECL 1, as it will allow the greatest ease of usage for potential players. Avoid LA whenever possible. To finish on subtypes, the Air and Earth subtypes aren't really needed here. I'm not sure why you have them but if you care to explain, it'll help later down the line. Were you going for the artificial aspect in those regards?
 * Medium size is fine and dandy like cotton candy.
 * Speeds needs some reworking as well. 20 foot land speed is fine, but a flight speed isn't level appropriate at all. Races really shouldn't be able to fly until around 5th level minimum for combat purposes (and a few out of combat challenges). Flight really changes the game for characters. I imagine this is supernatural flight since you don't mention wings or some other alien wing analogue. There is a Hover (3.5e Creature Ability) you might want to take a look at instead of flight.
 * Fast Metabolism is fine, though, with the following two abilities, you should make note of their ability to need sleep or not, as they appear to differ from typical outsiders.
 * Spell Resistance is a big one, and probably not necessary given the power boost. I'd recommend dumping it outright.
 * Energy Resistance is fairly stout too, and also rather unnecessary. If you take the advice of dumping Xenotheric, dump this one too, along with Bio Energy Pool and Dependancy.
 * Temperature Resistance should be reworded and probably make reference to SRD:Endure Elements, since that's what it does as an extraordinary ability.
 * As for their aging effects, do they not gain effects of age categories? It is currently unclear if that is the purpose or you just forgot to fill in the table. If they don't make use of aging effects, remove the table and put a note somewhere stating as such.
 * Well, that's about what I can think of at the moment anyhow. You've got some work ahead of you. If you think it's going to take a while, I also recommend moving the article into a user sandbox page so you can work on it at your leisure. If you need help with that, we can help with that. --Ganteka Future 03:20, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I have always had the intention to have Starborn to get more powerful with more hit dice but I'm unsure of how to implement it so i just kind of rounded them and gave the abilities important to the concept at level one and improve it with feats, so i probably should move it to a user sandbox but i don't know how. --Erreun 02:01, 8 January 2011 (UTC)


 * To get more powerful with more hit dice, normal classes do just that. Races tend to give a set amount of power that doesn't change with level.  Still, you might want to look at the concept of a racial paragon class.  Ganteka Future has a lot of good ideas and sums up how to get it balanced.  I'd listen to him. --Havvy 02:21, 9 January 2011 (UTC)