Talk:Glaive of the Hellfire Warlock (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

Bloodline
Shouldn't it be a devil bloodline? --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 15:21, June 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope, demon bloodline gives us more of the goodies we want. --Ghostwheel 19:58, June 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I meant thematically. This isn't quite as drastic as an ur-priest/RKV, but it is still a pretty bad mashup. The devil bloodline, on the other hand, thematically fits very well. --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 20:02, June 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Flavor?! THIS. IS. CHAROP!! *kicks* --Ghostwheel 20:11, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Second Level Feat?
Just out of curiosity how are you managing the second level Power Attack? I understand taking two flaws and being a human will allow you to have the four feats at first level. But I couldn't find it anywhere that allows you take an additional feat at level 2. Any clarification would really help me out. Thanks.
 * bloodline benefit--NameViolation 17:40, July 26, 2010 (UTC)

Broken
You cannot use maximize spell-like ability on the Eldritch Blast go reread the Warlock. The Eldritch Glaive does not allow you to augment the damage as if you were holding a melee weapon. ie.. you can't use power attack and your str bonus does not apply.


 * you can maximize it, but i agree on the str/power attack thing-NameViolation


 * Errata files say EB is an equivalent first level spell without augmenting. Havvy 18:05, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * (Obama voice) Yes. We. CAN! --Ghostwheel 19:07, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * can you provide ANYTHING from wotc saying you can PA touch aattacks or add str to the glaive? all you provided was a link you you and some others saying you're right with no actual rules quoted. EG never says you add str to damage. period.-NV


 * can you provide ANYTHING from wotc saying you can't PA touch aattacks or add str to the glaive? EG never says you don't add str to damage. period. --Ghostwheel 19:52, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * There are rules quoted over there, both general text saying that you can't PA with a standard EB or any other weaponlike spell and the rules for EG that go and spell out how it functions substantially different from a standard EB. You can really argue the point either way, and find support for both sides in the EG description. After starting out in your camp and reviewing the text of EG I came to the conclusion that you can PA with it, but that's all inference as it doesn't just come out and say that. This is not a clear cut issue either way, and YMMV. - TarkisFlux 21:47, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * oops, typo, I ment "can you provide ANYTHING from wotc saying you can PA touch aattacks or add str to the glaive?". IF EG wanted you to add str to damage it would say it in plain english. To me nothing in it even implies adding str to damage, but i have a feeling that like last time no one is going to bother to prove anything, and most people here just wanna go with the most powerful answer, no matter how misinterpreted it is.-NV


 * If that's how you want to be about it:
 * "Your eldritch blast takes on physical substance, appearing similar to a glaive. As a full-round action, you can make a single melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon. If you hit, your target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast)." -Pg 82, Dragon Magic
 * The default rules say you don't get PA on a default eldritch blast, which is not the case right now. There's two interpretations of the glaive ability, one which focuses on the fact that it's a physical thing that functions like a two-handed melee weapon that just happens to strike as a melee touch weapon (and thus allows PA, like a number of other melee touch weapons) and one which focuses on the damage clause where it says it deals damage as your eldritch blast (with which you don't normally get to PA).
 * It looks to me like it's telling you to make a melee attack against their touch AC with a reach weapon whose base damage is equal to your EB ability. You're welcome to deconstruct the rule further if you like. - TarkisFlux 21:59, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * the "takes on physical substance" is fluff. it does say " If you hit, your target is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast (including any eldritch essence applied to the blast)". no mention of str, just "is affected as if struck by your eldritch blast". EB doesnt add str, and it works like EB except as specifically stated. if you could add str it would call it out.-NV


 * The "make a single melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon" part is more important than the physical "fluff" because you can PA with melee touch weapons unless it specifically states otherwise (flame blade comes to mind as a specific exemption). It doesn't specifically state otherwise in this case, just that the glaive deals damage as your standard EB. That can be taken either as a base damage or total damage; I don't see either of these necessarily wrong though I believe that the base damage interpretation is stronger in conjunction with the "melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon".
 * If you're looking for a specific call out that they get to use PA on the attack, it doesn't exist. Nor is there a specific call out that even though you're making a melee touch attack as if wielding a reach weapon you can't PA with it. Like so many of their rules, there is room for interpretation here. You're welcome to disagree with that, but unless you're going to bring something new to the argument you're not going to sway me. - TarkisFlux 22:40, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * The key phrase is the part where it says "as if wielding a reach weapon", which implies to me that you can apply normal melee attack options to the EG as you would to a melee attack. Kind of like Hideous Blow, only not a regular attack roll for some reason (which isn't the fault of anyone who would use this for optimization purposes). - TG Cid 22:44, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * but "as if wielding a reach weapon" just means 10 ft reach, instead of making it a regular touch attack with no reach. I stand by the fact nothing says "you may add str to damage". I dont think adding str to it is RAW or RAI-NV


 * "As if wielding a reach weapon" means you get to take attack actions that you could if you were wielding a reach weapon, like PA. If you disagree with that and want to focus on the damage line and treat EG as a weird shape weaponlike spell instead of a more standard reach weapon, that's fine. I think that's a reasonable position to hold on this because it's not a well written ability. I just don't think it's the only position on the matter, and of the two it looks weaker to me. As I've previously said, YMMV. - TarkisFlux 23:36, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Why Chameleon?
Title asks it all, really. What's the purpose of the Chameleon levels in this build? Just that +4 boost to attack? --DanielDraco 09:10, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Mainly this line: "Able to craft any item by level 20 with the combination of Imbue Item and the Chameleon's floating feat."  --Havvy 11:41, 24 July 2011 (UTC)