Talk:Time (3.5e Cleric Domain)

In Defense of Level 2 DBF
That is, delayed blast fireball. It's really not that huge to give 1d6 damage per caster level at Very High when you can be casting things like glitterdust at your leisure. That is less damage than a properly played barbarian can crank out, which suggests it's at best a Moderate-level spell even before considering that anything with evasion can negate it entirely. When compared to other spells available at level 7 (finger of death) or even level 4 (PhantKill), it's clear that DBF shouldn't be an actual level 7 spell at Very High. That's like saying that because polar ray is level 8, it must stay that way. Anyone who has actually tried to use that spell knows it's simply not true, and ditto for this one.

And what "other things" do you speak of? I co-wrote this, so I feel I am probably qualified to answer. - TG Cid (talk) 15:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The problem here, as it's been with other things in the past, isn't the delay being special, or the damage (it's 1d6/lvl standard), or in this case even the area since at least it's close to when you're supposed to get fireball. It's the cap.  Metamagic is always forgotten when it comes to freely giving high cap or no caps to low level spells.  They don't think of it because metamagic is typically very lackluster, either due to caps or due to only using one (or, and I stress, only being able to afford one due to its high level) metamagic at a time.


 * As a metamagic abuser, and as someone who has seen metamagic abuse, I must always stress that.


 * The "other stuff" is mostly "look at all these 9th level spells not anywhere close to 9th level". Outlast the ages is showing out as a particularly sore thumb there.  I care less about the other stuff so its mostly a sidenote. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 15:51, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


 * I believe we have had the discussion concerning metamagic and stuff before, so I think we can agree to disagree on that front. If not, my stance is in short that unless you have already cheesy metamagic-capable class/build (anything involving the archvist, for example), then that is much more the offending party than these spells because they would be the common denominator (the spells can just be swapped).


 * I believe MS and Ghost didn't agree on where outlast the ages should be leveled, hence its move to the 5/6 spot here (see more at the relevant talk page). Since it's also a totally utility spell, it's not as though you are suddenly tons more combat effective than you were before, as might be the case if a more applicable spell like time stop moved levels. Speaking of, Outlast the ages was probably never going to be a 9 when time stop is available. The two aren't even in the same stratosphere of power. - TG Cid (talk) 17:14, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The thing is that there are relatively many level 10+ NPC spellcasters in the world, while relatively few level 17+ spellcasters out there. I'd rather not have every Tom, Dick and Harry gain immortality with a simple spell. It should be reserved for the truly ascendent few who have broached the full power of the world and can change reality entirely with a snap of their fingers. Rather than ad-hoccing Wish, I made that spell instead, though I would as soon see it as another option for the Wish spell. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:19, 21 August 2014 (UTC)