Talk:Lesser Paragon (3.5e Template)

Balance Check
My meter is off, does this work at LA +4? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:56, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, I gave it a read-through. This looks more like this should be just a straight up non-PC template (getting rid of the LA and just sticking with a CR listing). Why not just make a generic racial paragon class and have it scale up to full paragon? Unless of course, the point was to just suddenly attain this, the only way it would likely be implemented would be if it were obtained before game of course (which is typical of templates) and generally counter-intuitive to PC progression. I guess I'm just having a hard time getting behind a LA+4 template without knowing the reasons for it.
 * That said, do I think this works as CR+4? Well, I'm glad the convenient rundown is available at the bottom. It basically boils down to "you get better bonuses in exchange for class features". Before I really answer that question posed at the start of this paragraph, I'm gonna bring up a couple other points as distractions first. Energy Resistance is generally kinda lame, being most useful at low levels. Wouldn't you prefer the awesomeness of energy hindrance? Hint wink hint wint hink hink? Also, why is that ability even on there? Why just fire and cold damage? I take it that it's a hold-over from the original paragon template. Just feels out of place to me is all. Okay, the second distraction point was basically the part about "interacting with ghosts" bit on the magic natural weapons part. Why not just extend that to all weapons (wielded or natural) and extend it even further to granting ghost touch (since even magic weapons still have incorporeal miss chance).
 * So, do I think this works as a CR+4? Meh, I guess I lean toward dislike on it. I think it's mostly just the approach to it I guess. It feels like you just cut the numbers on a published template without re-examining why it was constructed the way it was and without adjusting on that model to give it anything fun. I guess it's just hard to get excited about bare numbers when that could basically be just achieved by "give it more HD and some resistances."
 * Also, I get that calling this "lesser paragon" makes it easier to find for people looking for a paragon type template, but isn't there a better name than that? Like "Exemplar" or something out of the thesaurus. Guess that's about it. --Ganteka Future (talk) 20:29, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * That's for the feedback. I see what you mean about making it LA -- and just CR +4... I just have a habit of making all templates viable for PCs, but honestly this was not made for any PC use, just to "super saiyan" monsters for DMs, so I'll consider making it LA --.  As the name implies, this is the paragon template and as such I didn't vary from the original template very much.  It's a pile of numbers, for sure, and nothing more so I'm not looking for favors so much as neutrals for achieving its stated goal.  One day I might make my own power-up template and probably add in more interesting things than numbers, or adding in energy hindrance.  There's a few things shifted... the DR/epic didn't really translate well into lower power, as DR/magic would be too weak and DR/epic, while effective, opens up the power to bypass DR/epic and I wasn't sure of that.  On the other hand I wanted their attacks to still be magic (or epic in the latter) do I basically gave them +0 magic weapons on whatever they do.  I can extend it to everything they do, consider that to be in effect (whenever I get around to editing next).


 * Though "boring", do you think it achieves the stated CR +4 goal? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 22:16, 25 July 2013 (UTC)


 * With the extension of "all attacks now are magic weapons" and barring the stuff like gameplay-altering thresholds (like flight or planar teleportations), yeah, I suppose this meets the goal of CR+4. DR/— is fine and works well in this situation as a replacement for DR/Epic. My biggest beef was really with having this be PC use. Having it be monster-only really frees up some design work problems. Energy Hindrance suggestion was mostly me just trying to pimp that out into more regular usage. Makes me wonder why the original paragon template never just added lots of HD. Oh well, to dream an understanding of those coastal wizards. --Ganteka Future (talk) 00:39, 26 July 2013 (UTC)