Talk:Mythic Beast Paragon (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)

Nitpick
Nitpik - you have it for the other natural weapons, but you didn't say that Battle Horns damage is affected by size. --Be well 00:43, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * The other natural weapons aren't natural weapons. The Battle Horns are the only ones that are normal natural weapons. The other ones are Natural Born Weapons, something that is explained on the base race page here. Natural weapons typically don't scale well with class levels, so I only offered to opportunity to gain one. The Natural Born Weapons are a write-around to allow the bite, claws and the optional tail to be treated like regular weapons. Hope that clears it up. --Ganteka Future 00:57, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * I wasn't talking about scaling to level, but to size. In the Mythic Beast write-up, you say that while the stats you give are for a Medium sized one, they can be any size. So, if a Small or Tiny Mythic Beast selects Battle Horns, does the damage change? --Be well 01:07, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ahh, you mean to clear up the confusion on the text that says:


 * "While mythic beasts might come in other sizes, the stats presented here are for those of a medium size mythic beast."


 * All listed stats are for a medium creature. The included note about how they "might come in other sizes" is a reminder to players who might take feats or abilities from other sources that will change their size. Nowhere in the base race or paragon class is there an option to change your size (for now). I have considered the option of small mythic beasts but haven't integrated anything. So yeah, for any character that changes size, you'd best consult SRD:Weapon Qualities for changes in base weapon damage. If you feel that the text is just confusing, I'll change it. It's still a pretty new thing. --Ganteka Future 01:53, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I said, its just a nitpik. Its not actually confusing, just open to interpretation. From reading forums, I have learned its best to limit room for interpretation.--Be well 02:13, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Additions and Modifications
This racial paragon class will never be able to be fully capable of expressing all the wild ideas players and DMs come up with for making monsters. However, there are a couple of things that I still desire to add in, but have yet to do so. The first being a trait or two (Archetypal or Supplemental, I have no preference) to allow for spell-like abilities. I figured having a couple lists of spells to pick from would be easy. A few utility spells a limited number of times a day would be fine. I'd like to stick with SRD spells. So, let's say two lists of spells, one available at early levels (probably 2nd or 3rd) and another available later (around 5th or 6th). Spells that remain useful throughout the game are prime choices. Any help I can get in formulation these lists would be welcome.

A second option for limited spellcasting would be an Archetypal Trait as its own spellcasting progression. However, since spellcasting isn't a primary function of the class it would be weak and probably just detract from the overall specialization that players will need to do to make effective characters. However, if it was a list of spells that provide combat buffs like bless, magic weapon, bull's strength and haste (personal or otherwise), it might work.

There were a few other things that I'd like to add or have considered adding. Size changes seems like an obvious choice, just not sure how to implement it. Multiple heads was in the original set of abilities, but was removed. I wanted to allow for the flavor of things like chimeras and hydras. Any number of monstrous abilities that can't normally be gained by feats but still work in the hands of PCs... none of which spring to mind though.

Anyhow, any assistance or feedback is welcome.--Ganteka Future 17:50, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Here is my suggestion:


 * Archetypal Trait
 * Impenetrable (Ex): The Mythic Beast Paragon is hardier than most and has a steely personality.
 * 1:Base The Mythic Beast Paragon gains +2 Natural Armor and Damage Reduction 3/-.
 * 2:Advanced: The Mythic Beast Paragon's Natural Armor improves by 2 and your Damage Reduction improves by 3
 * 3:Full The Mythic Beast Paragon's natural armor improves by 3 and your damage recduction improves by 4, in addition all of his natural weapons are treated as adamantine.


 * hope you like it :)--Stryker-Fyre 11:45, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, though, I made some changes and thus called it Might and Mettle instead. I avoided natural armor here, since it is available in Rugged Pelt... which could use a different name. If you have any other ideas, or notice things I've overlooked or need corrections, please comment. --Ganteka Future 19:36, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Rugged Pelt could be renamed Built like a Wall :). --Stryker-Fyre 12:16, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Growth
Does the second Growth option give all of the size increase stat changes (+8 Strength, -2 Dex, +4 Con, +2 natural armor, -1 AC/Attack)? --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 17:20, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, the Advanced Growth feature does not grant those bonuses associated with SRD:Improving Creatures (besides the generic size modifiers from SRD:Table of Creature Size and Scale that are linked on the class feature). I can make an edit to clarify that within the article if you think it's necessary. When ever are those bonuses granted when not advancing a monster NPC via monster hit dice? --Ganteka Future 19:07, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually you are right. For some reason I thought the monster chart was the default rules for size changing and spells/powers have to override the default rule (which is not the case). --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 23:08, June 24, 2010 (UTC)

Balance
Wouldn't allowing someone to cast an encounter-ending spell 1/encounter be wizard-level? After all, you don't need more than one to end an encounter :-P --Ghostwheel 06:20, July 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Wouldn't allowing a rogue to use a scroll/wand/thinger of x to potentially decide a favorable outcome to the encounter in one round make the rogue wizard-level? Sometimes he might win the day, other times he might have to run away. Trying to implement a gimped spellcasting progression (that's still useful to choose as a class feature) has been rather tricky. Anyways, if a character takes all three steps by level 5, he'll likely be at the top of his game there, but over his long career, those spells petter out in usefulness, which is a big problem at the moment. The whole Mythic Magic ability is still in a tinkering phase at the moment. It's far too glitchy currently (for a supplemental casting feature in an otherwise non-casting class, a bit wordy, difficult to match up to the rest of the class, the tricksiness of cure minor wounds, tracking multiple refresh rates, and forcing players to do a lot of research and reading to find domains when the rest of the class is pretty straightforward). Another option, as mentioned above in Additions and Modifications, of having a set list to choose from, seemed rather limiting. If I can't tinker and fine-tune the existing Mythic Magic to a workable/playable state, I'll explore the "pick from a set list" route and whatever other routes or options I come up with. --Ganteka Future 06:47, July 6, 2010 (UTC)