Talk:The Book of Grievous Injury (3.5e Sourcebook)/Introduction

20th level
You are aware that a 20th level Barbarian is supposed to be approximately equivalent in power to a Black Dragon Wyrm, right? There are all sorts of things that the Wyrm can do that the Barbarian can't, and few things that a Barbarian can do that a Wyrm can't. At your level 20 Barbarian who falls from a space station and lands in a spiked pit and notices, I say "WHISKEY-TANGO-FOXTROT?!?". --Foxwarrior 23:35, 23 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Then you would be a final fantasy hit point player, which would make this book completely useless to you. Sorry, but I can't help you. --Change=Chaos. Period. SC 20:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * No I am not, and I am insulted by the accusation. However, I believe that the game mechanics determine the physics of the world, and not the other way around. There must be some reason why Barbarians don't die when falling from orbit: perhaps Barbarians are actually made of magically infused carbon fibers or something equally pseudo-scientific by this point, or maybe they just happen to make the ground they land on soft and flexible because of their incredible density or Barbaric aura. --Foxwarrior 21:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Basically, "blah blah blah the wizard on the coast did it?" It's okay to want a game to just be a game, to have the world of D&D follow D&D physics and rules with no outside influence. There is nothing wrong with that, and it is a perfectly legitimate style of play beloved by thousands. Just don't be surprised if you shoot off your toe trying to defend it as realistic.
 * So, point blank question of blind truth to the face: do you believe that D&D system rules should come before or after real world logic? --Change=Chaos. Period. SC 08:08, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Wait! The laws of physics are not based upon the absolutes of D&D! What are you getting at man... You need to lay of the shisa. Get back to reality. Only the lost can find. --Franken Kesey 08:56, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * What I am getting at is the style of play determines how useful this book will be. Foxwarrior is clearly a FF player, but for some reason feels threatened when called out for being such, despite there being nothing wrong with that style of play. Thus, this sourcebook will be almost completely useless to him. As for me, I like the courage hit point system, thus half of this material will apply only to criticals and those near death.
 * So, in short, yes the laws of reality are separate from the rules of the game. What determines how you play is which set of rules you fall back to. --Change=Chaos. Period. SC 22:17, 25 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say that preferring DnD rules to realism makes you a FF player. Being a FF player means you like going into dungeons, grinding away at hundreds of monsters, having melee and magic both on a linear growth track, and that advanced character creation is disallowed.  Yes, it is a good series of games, but meh.  You might better be stating that you are creating a system that has realistic physics.  But if that is the case, you either send fighters into obscurity completely by making all magic SOD, or you take magic from the system.  Grim'n'Gritty already exists for a reason.


 * In any case, Foxwarrior is stating that 20th level characters should not be beholden to our laws of physics, mainly I think (am now into assuming territory) because the peak real life person would be no higher than 6th level, ergo E6. --Havvy 04:58, 26 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Again, this goes back to how you view hit points. If you think that the D&D hit point system is incompatible with reality, you would probably be a FF hit point player, and your point on E6 would be correct. If you believe hit point represent punishment thresholds, than the fact that it takes an average of 30 stab wounds from a knife to kill your average person would say that an average teen would be anywhere between 3rd to 7th level, and your point on E6 would be dead wrong.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 21:19, 27 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Of course D&D system rules should come before real world logic, and D&D logic should come before real world logic, but after system rules; D&D is a game about Barbarians who fall from orbit, get up, and then stab innocent teleporting demons. Sure, you can make the game not be about that, but then you are (obviously) changing the physics of the game in one of the most important ways, throwing the game's balance out of whack in a new and different direction.
 * I believe 6 was chosen for E6 because you wouldn't fall off the RNG too much, and because you've still reached "peasants worship or fear you" by that point.
 * Incidentally, I have made two RPG systems recently that both have wounding in them, with all that lovely dismemberment stuff. --Foxwarrior 04:48, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Could you send me a sample of one? I would like to compare it to some other games I play.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 07:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm afraid that the other one isn't very elegant, so I'll show you this one: It aims to simulate the action-movie style of combat, wherein most attacks are capable of inflicting grievous wounds, and don't. --Foxwarrior 07:40, 28 November 2010 (UTC)