Talk:Star (3.5e Class)

Balance Point
Between the levitation, flight, ranged attack, and invocations, I think this would probably be wizard-level. --Ghostwheel 05:06, June 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree. The invocations themselves are not too strong (many are only a shadow of what warlocks get, and at later levels too.  The flight and levitation can be obtained by picking certain races (looks at Raptoran), and the ranged attack is the only thing that this thing has over a monk.  Less unarmed damage also hurts it.  Lucky star combined with all good saves seems a bit powerful on its own.  I'd put it at fighter level personally.  A SGT would probably put it there too. Havvy 05:23, June 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Rather than just looking, compare it to encounters on the level 5 SGT, for example. Just flying out of range and attacking from a distance this character could take care of probably 80% of the encounters without too much hassle, as shown from previous discussions on the Wings of Evil feat. Raptoran and similar races get actual flying at higher levels, and wouldn't be able to pull off the same thing. If you think that the detracting factor is low damage, you could easily have 4d6+10 x2 by level 5 just from Improved Natural Attack, Meteor Strike invocation, Solar Ray, and being a race that gives a boost to charisma at first level along with Meteor Shower for the extra attack at no penalty. I don't think that a class that does 48 damage on average while staying out of range all day is going to be monk level. --Ghostwheel 05:31, June 15, 2010 (UTC)

Remember that Solar Ray only allows you to deal fire damage. Should I add an addendum so that Imp Natural Attack does not stack with Meteor Strike? I usually don't allow my players to take INA more than once or twice since it doesn't have a limit. As for the flight ability, I don't think thats a big deal. Warlocks and most spellcasting classes will have gained a fly spell/ability by level 5, whereas the star gets it at 8th. I could also see dropping one of the saves to a slow progression. (Real Sorceror 22:34, June 16, 2010 (UTC))


 * Well, ultimately, you have an ability given to them free that is Dark One Own's Luck * 3 called Lucky Star that is based off the same attribute that gives them an AC bonus. Stacked with Mettle and Improved Mettle, and this has to be a very strong defensive class before any other effects are looked at.  Then you have offensively the ability to do 4d6+10 X2 at level 5 without detracting from the defensive aspects at all.  If anything, I would put a limit of max bonus from these features due to class levels.  For example, no more than 1 deflection AC per three levels rounded up and no more than plus one to each save for every two levels (or possibly caster level) for the lucky star ability.


 * Also, if you make invocations follow the rules of the warlock (spell-like ability, standard action to cast), give the ones you want to always be on a lasting effect of 24 hours, and give spell-level equivalents (for the metamagic feats that focuses on spell-like abilities), you remove the ability to do as Ghostwheel said above. Also, you should probably make it noted that you cannot use modified version of Star Bolt with Meteor Shower.  Finally, any reason for making the star bolt be at a range of 60ft, removing any magic user's ability to get close area spells in?


 * Yeah, I took a second look at this and found it powerful... Havvy 06:24, June 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * These are all good suggestions, especially on limiting AC/save bonus, damage, and modeling invocation duration and whatnot off of Warlock. I'll get most of that implemented tomorrow. As for the range of 60ft, thats the same range as the Warlock's blast. I can drop to maybe 40ft if that seems too potent. I could change the Solar/Lunar Ray abilities so that instead of dealing double damage they simply allow you to deal fire/cold damage with the Bolt and maybe add the Flaming your Frost ability to your unarmed attack?(Real Sorceror 23:04, June 17, 2010 (UTC))


 * "Should I add an addendum so that Imp Natural Attack does not stack with Meteor Strike? I usually don't allow my players to take INA more than once or twice since it doesn't have a limit."


 * Actually, the general rule of thumb is that unless it says otherwise, feats overlap, they don't stack. You can take Toughness multiple times because it says you can, but you cannot take five Weapon Focus Greatswords and get +5 to greatswords (as awesome and useful as that may be).  In fact, INA says "This feat may be taken multiple times, but each time it applies to a different natural attack. " so it's moot anyway. -- Eiji Hyrule 10:53, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * After checking the warlock's eldritch blast, I see that it is 60ft. As such, 60ft wouldn't be too powerful;  (I thought it was 30ft originally). Havvy 19:07, June 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Since you haven't been around for a week, though I'd poke--do you plan on redoing the balance level? --Ghostwheel 20:54, June 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I was distracted by another project. I'd say its definitely playable at this point, though I may try and come back to it this week and flesh it out/clean it up some. I also have someone wanting to playtest it, so that may change things in the future. (Real Sorceror 04:14, June 28, 2010 (UTC))


 * You really need to fill in, hide, or just delete the sections on your page. They make you fail our completeness standards, and will lead to the page getting sandboxed or deleted in a bit. - TarkisFlux 04:39, June 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * Even if it's not incomplete, could you update the balance point? I think I demonstrated above how it's wizard-level for the most part (though I suppose one could argue in theory that it might be rogue-level, though I don't think any comparable rogue-level classes could bring on that kind of damage at will every single round). --Ghostwheel 07:37, June 28, 2010 (UTC)