Talk:Insomnia (3.5e Flaw)

Deserves a Feat?
This doesn't really seem to deserve a feat--I can see it being bad for spellcasters, but for people who don't need to rest (many melee-types) this has no real drawbacks... --Ghostwheel 01:42, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * What if you had to make a save to fall asleep or be fatigued for the day, which would affect melee-types as well as spellcasters? Just a thought. - TG Cid 01:53, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought about that but it wouldn't it be to brutal on spellcasters? --ThirdEmperor 02:52, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Having a scaling DC or become fatigued at the start of each encounter could be decent to balance this for meleers. --Ghostwheel 03:03, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay it sounds good but how about this instead, every time someone with insomnia tries to sleep he must make a save (Would it be Fort or Will?) or be unable to sleep and must wait 24 hours to try again and take a cumulative -1 penalty on everything till he gets 8 hours of sleep. Please tell me what you think, I can't decide between the two.--ThirdEmperor 03:23, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * You could make it a scaling Will or Fort save, and could even make it whichever was lower for the character in question (as long as it scales decently), but the -1 is weak. Go with Fatigued (even if immune), and then into Exhausted (again, even if immune) if you fail it twice in a row. And once exhausted, when you finally get to sleep, you function as if under a sleep spell for an 8 hour duration. That might actually impact the actions that a non-caster or non-rest recharge caster (*cough* clerics *cough*) can take, and for the rest recharge spellcasters you should specify that any period spent trying to sleep but failing is not restful (so you deal with groups that interpret the 8 hour rest clause as not requiring actual sleep anyway). - TarkisFlux 05:14, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Whoops, should have been more clear. A save per combat (as ghost suggested) is probably better than being lost for the day, and you could probably make that save a teeny bit easier than the sleep save if you wanted. So just tag that on to my other stuff please ;-) - TarkisFlux 05:43, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't know.............. It seems to me that a -1 penalty to everything is more severe then fatigued which is pretty much just -1 to anything strength or dex based, but it does make more sense..... The main question to me is whether it would be in line with the unearthed arcana stuff..... Either way what is the average save for flaws?


 * A decent DC would probably be 10 + 1/2 character level + some random number or ability score. --Ghostwheel 15:50, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * You're forgetting the bits where being fatigued disallows charging, the run action, and several other things, and being exhausted disallows lots and lots of things. Which I think it is a bigger restriction than -1 to all things, but it's ultimately up to you. And I'm going to disagree with Ghost on the save. 15 + 3/4 level is probably what you want at a minimum, since that's a moderately tough save (requires +4 from stat / save bonus at level 1 to be 50/50 on it) that scales at the rate of good save + cloak of resistance. It's a save based flaw, and needs to grow with the character's expected bonus and the expected buffs they're going to toss at it. - TarkisFlux 17:12, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hey, why not just use a d% for the effect instead of going the route of a scaling save? Also, for the "overall -1 to stuff", have you looked at stealing the wording from Negative Levels (since you may not want to go the full effect of an actual negative level, but as a reference, its a start)? --Ganteka Future 18:18, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, Gan's %s is probably a better idea. You can't really get around that by finding a non-standard save booster, and you don't have to worry about making it scale. Just write up a chart that you roll on every night with effects and go from there. - TarkisFlux 18:25, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ya, I think I'll go with that d% thing but stick with fatigue then exhaustion because those rules aren't used enough.

But one question, do you think this is to brutal on casters? Maybe I should make it so you can still recover spells, but only half the normal amount? --ThirdEmperor 05:23, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Should be fine; remember, flaws are supposed to hurt. --Ghostwheel 07:33, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Might wanna make sure to mention that an attempt at resting can only be made once every 24 hours or something. --Ghostwheel 10:52, November 19, 2009 (UTC)