User talk:Joe

hey buddy hows it going name is joe and im sorry that i changed the hd like that hey would u like too talk on yahoo messenger with me and i hope that we can become friends


 * Ah good, it looks like you already found the user page. Name's Eiji, good to meet'cha.  I reverted your changes just cause of how things work around here, but I'm sure you meant no harm.  Basically, people can edit freely for non-mechanical changes, such as a typo here, or a bit of thesaurus work there.  However anything that actually changes the mechanics, like the HD, the class features, the BAB, and other stuff, is usually reserved for the talk page and at least a note of intention, or trying to flag down the author.  That's cause the stuff here is author-centric.  That article belongs to Cesspit (who admittedly may not be active right now), so its best to try and see if he's about.


 * As I was saying on Recent Changes, the Talk page is up on the top. There are two tabs, "Page" and "Discussion".  You want discussion.  A good way of going about this is saying what you want to do and why.  People will see it and probably respond, hopefully the author as well.  And if the author isn't about, at the very least you've gotten the opinion of the others floating around here, like me.


 * We do that so someone doesn't make something, go away for a week, and come back to a completely different class or race because someone had a different idea but didn't want to make their own page.


 * Anyway, if there's anything I can help you with, feel free to ask. Right now, start with using the discussion page.  You can sign your posts by typing ~ at the end. Like this. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:40, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

hey this is joe
hey this is the reason why i think that it should be a hd of 12 and not a hd of 8 is because if ur going too make a powerfull class then y not go all out and make it big heck its spoused too be a fighter class and fighters ushaly have a high hd anyways so too me it just made sence too make it a hd12

i was also woundering if u would like too help me make a whole new perstage class i have already made a whole new race of dragons their called the star dragons and their born from a star

hi
hey my idiea for a perstiage class is a good warrior class that is big and bashy kinda like a mix between a warblade and this class but yes i do see ur point now with this perstiage class it does seem realy boring its just their isnt a any realy good perstiage class out their for warriors though


 * Shall we move the conversation here? Alrighty then.


 * Ah, so this PrC is a melee focused fightery type. Good, that tells me who its for.  It may also imply you want to work with initiator classes such as warblade.  Should this class advance initiator level or maneuvers any?  So far, we have "initiating using melee class with Neo theme" (which is what Awakened Blade seems to have been going for: Breaking reality because fighting magic sparkles).


 * Let's immerse ourselves in flavor for a bit. Mechanics is easy for me, the fluff is where its at though.  Tell me what makes these guys special, why they have a whole PrC dedicated to what they do and how they do it.  You mentioned something about star dragons before, does that relate to this?


 * Feel free to wax poetic. Seriously, you can never have enough backstory and fluff. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:45, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * well the reason y i said warblade is for its bab of this class see when i make a fighter class i like too make it a hard too hit and hits with the most damage with less effort


 * we could never realy thought about it before too add the star dragon into this


 * i was thinking this ptc could be a lost art of the warrior


 * Ah, so just a Full BAB class of some sort. Fair enough, feel free to mull of the kind of fluff you want to see.    What does "Lost Art of the Warrior" mean?  I think I know but I want to be sure before I start assuming.  Anyway... I'm here until 6am east, so I'll be here all night.  And while you're at it, I may as well ask if there was a certain balance point you were aiming for.


 * You may have noticed the Low-Moderate-High-Very High scale on classes, or a bunch of things. The long story short of it is people have recognized not all classes, and indeed not all games, are the same.  Some are gritty Lord of the Rings type things where magic items are rare and no one is probably above 5th level, and then you have things closer to Beowulf where a naked man singlehandedly wrestles a dragon to the ground... for breakfast.  Its also a matter of options... Low powered games should expect to face goblins, take feats like Toughness, and not have many more options beyond move+attack or full attack.  Very High level is the realm of rocket tag, where in the firstround combat is either decided or over, because the wizard cast "Kill Everything" on the first turn.


 * My personal balance point is "High", which I find the Warblade to be a fine example of a 'high' class. Most of D&D Core is probably around the lower end of Moderate, where there aren't many options and you still only have attack or full attack, but generally the output is pretty appreciable.  Anyway, I've gone off on a tangent, flavor first. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:06, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * hey its all gd i like high also what i mean about the name lost art of the warrior is like a lost art of kung fu fighting styles but can i hear what ur thoughts are when u hear the name of the ptc lost art of warrior plz gennerly my best idieas are when im bouncing them off of some one


 * im central time if u would like i could give u my yahoo messenger if u would like too talk their


 * No can do. Disregarding the fact I lack yahoo anything, I'm actually working right now.  So I'm only posting when I have moments between work things.  It's alright though.


 * Alright, so the fluff is "You're hearing the wisdom of the ancients telling you how to do sweet kung fu moves." That's a good background.  Who are these ancient spirits?  Presumably the spirits of dead warriors?  Are they dead warriors dedicated to some kind of cause (perhaps former members of this PrC?) or working for some entity or power?  Why do they stick around?


 * Here's some ideas if you want to use a few: People become this PrC when they discover the ancient texts talking about the mysterious Whatever-Fu style, and they travel to their ancient lands to meditate or study (or perhaps they are found by another member of the PrC). Either way they are exposed to this ancient knowledge and thus meditate on it and start hearing "The Voice".  The voice is a mysterious collective entity which teaches and guides people in the way of Whatever-Fu, and perhaps to some final obscure goal.  You can decide if this goal is good, or evil, or just suspect.  Maybe The Voice is secretly maleviolent and trying to achieve something by training all these Whatever-Fu warriors and having them fight this and that.  Or maybe they're trying to stop an ancient evil from awakening.  Who knows.


 * If you use the fluff above, you have both a reason for your special abilities (knowledge/empowerment by an entity) and a reason of being, to pursue the ideals of The Voice. And the DM can appreciate it, because now they can use The Voice and its members in their plot however they see fit.  It's campaign non-specific enough to be ported to anyplace, be it Faerun, Eberron, or homebrew, but not generic enough to be boring.


 * It also gives you a start to figure out what kind of class features you want. "More damage" is a goal, but its dull on its own.  Now you can justify things "more damage" by saying "the voices give you insight on where to strike, thus you hit for more damage".  Not to mention other options.  Gaining options, especially as a melee type, is always good.  The Voice is a perfect excuse to gain knowledge acquisition, divination, or skill benefits that seem fitting.


 * What do you think? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:36, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

name of the ptc " Lost Art Of The Warrior"
i like the idiea about the ancient spirts and i was thinking its lost txts from the lost fighter kungfu warrior the spirts consits of all the past kungfue masters, fighter master, and from the from the ancient gods of war i was think non evil have too be and i like it that once they pick up the anceant txts that they can become a lost art of the warrior


 * May I suggest "Warrior of the Lost Arts", rolls off the tongue better.


 * I think the one other thing that needs to be answered then is if you have any specific "must have" powers you'd like to see in it. Like "needs knowledge checks" or "needs to be able to fly" or "something that makes it difficult to kill".  Or more specific things such as "Needs smite", "needs a limited use rage like ability" or "needs to throw his sword and disarm people at range".  Fighting is pretty varied, so where do we want to focus? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:09, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * yes i like the new name better and yes it does roll off the tongue better


 * and i have been doing some thinking yes fighters is such a broad term so how how about specials the class should have and i was thinking the need too become the true god of war. i was thinking maybe 5 to ten levels


 * i have only been playing D&D for only a yr now


 * hey would u like my email adress


 * i was thinking this class should have a gd AC and gd BA. to become immortal


 * the class that i was thinking of takeing before this class that were makeing is the hell reaver perstiage class


 * Email maybe later. While I do have one I check often, I think its good we talk here for the sheer purpose of letting others see. Who knows, maybe Tarkis or Foxwarrior has a helpful tidbit of advice he'd like to drop in because he saw something on here.


 * Alright, becoming the God of War. When I think becoming a god, I think highest level.  I think a prestige class which starts at earliest 10th level and goes from there.  I'm going to assume we don't become a literal mechanical diety (mostly because diety rules are borked), but we can become a diety in flavor anyway.  And we can use some of the benefits a deity gets to inspire us on what to give our "God of War".  Lesse here...  speed boosts, divine boosts to AC, alignment bypassing DR, roll shinanigans, saves, immunity, outside type, DR, SR, resistances, sense, portfolio, aura, and divine realm... that's enough to work with.  Speed boosts is ok, but the AC is what we really want.  Alignment bypassing is not required, since we don't seem particularly alignment-heavy.  Roll shinanigans are out, that stuffs broken in the hands of a PC.  Saves can work, immunities can work, outside type can work, DR and SR can work, resistances can work (probably not all of these things, just some).  Sense and portfolio are not needed, we know our portfolio: War.    Same thing with divine realm.


 * I'm getting a very "Heracles" feel outof this PrC you know. Like you're becoming a demigod, son of Zeus, neither man nor god.


 * So you could have something like Full BAB, Good Fort and Will (because you're tough, and you seem to have willpower, but nothing about this class screams "super agility", no more than your average guy anyway). d10 or 12, depending on how tough we need to be.  I recommend at least 4+Int skills, its a good amount for a martial class.


 * If you make it a five level class make it a late entry PrC, if 10 level you can make it earlier. I recommend having the end of the progression be level 17th or 18th, so when wizards are getting their 9th level spells on, you bloom into your godhood.  I'd say over the course of the class you start getting an aura and divine bonus to AC, some immunities, and maybe a few special abilities, powers from the lost arts, you can call upon.  That is the meat of the class after all.  Something akin to maneuvers, perhaps.  We'll think on it.  And at the end... you become an outsider, you got a nice AC score, some nice resistances and immunities, and a bunch of gimmick powers that define the class.


 * And there we go. Yeah, I feel this. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 06:06, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

i was thinking that u can enter this class at level 8 and the class will be 10 levels a hd12 and yes after u said it i guess we are makeing heracles i was thinking immunities and dr and sr and resistance i like the aura of health and divine bonus too ac like maybe the ability too be able too use the Flurrys of Blows just like how monks do, then the abilitys from the masters of sword fighters and i was thinking the their might be only a few abilitys from gods, imoritality, the abilty too call celestrial angels and the ability too be able too call ancent creaters that are not evil. some other abiltys that i was thinking that gains bonaus agains deamons, devils, undead

maybe we could make up the some abilitys but what i would like too see is that every level would gain a special ablity

i was thinking what about the warrior of the lost arts gets the ability too get a bonus feat every levl just like how a fighter gets them


 * 8 to 18 is a good method. We'll figure out pre-requisites later.  Flurry of blows seems like an odd inclusion.  If anything, smite seems more fitting.  As for summoning... interesting.  I wonder how that works into the fluff.  I can think of ways.  When it comes to alignment, I actually suggest you do not put an alignment restriction on the class.  The fluff will suggest goodness, but it'll permit the player who wants to run an evil build using a sinister spirit.  Opens up the most options that way.  Lesse what I can come up with on the fly...


 * 1) DR/alignment (equal to level), AC Bonus (equal to level), Gimmick Ability, Speak to the Voices
 * 2) Immunities 1, Smite
 * 3) Gimmick Ability
 * 4) Spell Resistance, Speak to the Voices 2
 * 5) Gimmick Ability, Divine Aura
 * 6) Immunities 2
 * 7) Gimmick Ability
 * 8) Speak to the Voices 3, Divine Aid
 * 9) Gimmick Ability
 * 10) Outsider Type, Superior Gimmick Ability, Immunities 3


 * Ok, right, let's see. I arranged it like this.  Its slightly frontloaded, but only with things that scale so at 1st level you get DR/1, +1 AC, and two more powers.  I figure... the Gimmick Ability is the main draw from the class.  I'm a fan of things you can choose from a list, so you can pick the "Super Archery" option if that's your thing, or "Super Grappling" or just "Bonus Feat" or whatever.  And Speak to the Voices... I figure some fluff power akin to bardic knowledge or something, to represent that you're talking to dead heroes.


 * At level 2 I start dropping in immunities. I staggered it over the class so you can't just get a 2 level dip and obtain them all.  I haven't yet figured which immunities shouldbe kept or not.  I also put smite (or flurry of blows, I just felt smite seemed more divine) and I'd probably recommend Pathfinder's smite, even if its intended for 3.5.  Pathfinder smite's pretty good.  Incidentally including smite in means the most ideal way into the class is paladin, because it stacks.


 * As you see I give gimmick abilities every odd level so you can end up choosing five. I'd make them basically powerful feats that let you do something neato.


 * At 4th I put in Spell Resistance, which is level 12th. Monk gets his at 11th, that seemed right.  Also another speak with the voices, an upgrade which I don't know what it does yet.  Something precognitive and knowledgy I'm sure.


 * Divine Aura at 5th level respresents the midpoint of the class and a mini-capstone. You now have a divine aura for intimidating, glowing, and all the other stuff divine auras are wont to do.  Maybe not word for word, but we can do a lot with an aura effect.


 * Immunities... gimmicks... ah, 7th level has the last Speak with the Voices flavor ability which I still don't know what it should do, and "Divine Aid". I thought of your summoning idea and I figured Divine Aid is a catch-all.  A limited number of times per day you can call on the aid of the dead heroes to help you.  You get to choose if it comes in the form of altering fate somehow or maybe something fancy and evocation-like, or... summoning creatures.  Think of Divine Aid as a sort of Limited Wish or Shadow Conjuration, where you can cast it and make different effects.  If we go with the non-alignment idea, you summon angels (or fiends) of fallen heroes to help you in battle.  Like Planar Binding, but probably not as long term unless you're willing to pay them as per Planar Binding.


 * The capstone has you turn into an outsider, gain immortality, and be the demigod you always wanted to be. You also get an amped up version of one of your gimmicks.  It should be strong, because we're completing with 9th level spells now.  Something useful.


 * All in all, that means two lists of things (gimmicks and superior gimmicks) to choose from, and even without them you end up with a beefy DR 10/alignment, SR 10+HD, +10 divine AC, some knowledge/divination tricks, summon spell-like abilities which may include summons, a divine aura, and a bunch of neat immunities. I'd call that High level.  You're compitent, you're tough, but you're also unlikely to end the battle in a single blow.  You still have to punch things to death, or whatever methods you use.  What do you think? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * i like it but i was thinking this ptc wont have spell points and i was think that too enter this class u would have too be a fighter a warrior and about the flurry of blows i put in their because of the ancient art of kungfu is all i like it what u have come up with and i was also thinking that this ptc would get bonus agenst devils demons and undead i like the divine aid, smite evil and can give them the improved smite feat, and the feat extra smite. i was thinking that maybe one of the prerquets for this class will be that u cant be evil


 * see im trying too make this class for my perstiage class for my guy that im useing for a game that im playing right now. the class that i picked is a warrior person and right now my guy is a level 3 carecter my guy uses swords one handed and no bows no shilds


 * No spell points here, just a few spell-likes. So it'll be like 1/day, or 3/day, or at will this or that. No spell slots here.


 * More kung fu. I'm thinking you want the pre-req to be "unarmed strike" since a few classes can do the unarmed strike kung fu, but not get flurry ofblows, unless you specifically want a monk level in there.  That, and even the fighter or barbarian would qualify by picking up the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.  It's not as damaging as a monk, but it works.


 * Looks like we are going for a specific alignment flavor then. Noted.


 * Prereqs probably looks like... BAB +6 (to specify you need at least six levels in a full BAB class to get in on time, showing your dedication to martial might), a skill which will determine the minimum level to get in... Knowledge Religion? Decipher Script? None are very fighter-esque skills, though paladin and monk get knowledge religiongiving predence that this is a divine class.  Makes sense for turning into an outsider too, so say Knowledge Religion 10 ranks (for 7th level, thus qualifying for 8th).  And add unarmed strike, and a flavor requirement of "Must learn about the lost art somehow".  That should be enough pre-requisites IMO.


 * All in all, BAB +6, Knowledge Religion 10 ranks, Unarmed Strike. Have the class progress unarmed strike as a monk as well. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * yes i agree with that and that snds gd


 * I'll help you get used to the formatting of the wiki. You can make the actual article, got to learn some day.  Take your time with it, use spellcheck often, etc.  But before all that... why not actually register a name on the wiki?  That way you won't be a silly string of numbers.  I'll even transfer all the stuff from this page over to your new user name, so you have it for reference. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 21:25, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

ty so very much hey i hate too ask this though but would u be willing too put all the info onto the class for me plz

i have made a account now Joe (talk) 21:34, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

i dont even know how too go about makeing the class page thats y i asked if u could plz put all the info into the classs for me


 * I think it's best of youlearn how. Don't worry, I'll do a step-by-step for you.  Here we go.


 * First, click on Homebrew Material on the sidebar on your left. You want 3.5 Homebrew.  From there the link you want is Classes. Now look in the top right, there is a link if you want to make your own class.  Click that.  We're going to go with the "Simple Preload".  What you want to do is put the name of your class (Warrior of the Lost Arts) in the box and hit create.  You want the one that says prestige class, not regular class.


 * Important! Make sure youleave the tag (3.5e Prestige Class) on the end, that's how the wiki knows what kind of article this is and where to put it.  It should read Warrior of the Lost Arts (3.5e Prestige Class).


 * Oh no, code! Don't worry, it's not as hard as it looks.  The biggest thing to remember is that you need to delete comment tags. Comment tags looklike this:  where X is the comment.  They just say hints about what you should do with this, and need to be replaced.  First thing first, make sure to delete the first line which says nowiki.


 * Then it's mostlyfill in the blank. The author, that's your name Joe.  Date.  Balance rating is high.  Name of the class.  Etc. etc.


 * When you get down to the class itself you can set things like the saves (good fort and will) and BAB (good) and other aspects. The special abilities are the names of what the class does, like Speak to the Voices. You don't need to define what the abilities do yet, that comes later.\


 * Below that you have class features. This is where you write things like Speak to the Voices : You can hear the things and the stuff and this is what it does.


 * And the rest is mostly fluff. What dot hese guys do?  Who do they worship?  What do people know if they make knowledge checks about them?


 * Just remember the key rule that you delete the comment tags and replace it with whatever is supposed to be in there, and you should be golden. Takeyour time, and if you mess up I'll help you fix it. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 23:30, 5 April 2014 (UTC)


 * ok i have it set up and made but could u plz add in all the info that needs too be added their plz


 * Aye, I see it. But I want you to fill it in.  Its a good way to learn how to do this on your own.  Did you understand the part I said about removing comment tags and replacing them with your own?  Like, I see you have  |balance= 

|hitdie= 

|length= 

|bab= 

|fort= 

|ref= 

|will= 

|special1= 

Ok, so what goes in here?

Well look at  |classname= . It says what its looking for in the comment tag. So you want to replace the comment tag with the name, or  |classname=Warrior of the Lost Art .

The next one is hitdie, and it's looking for the HD of the class, so put 12 there.

Then length. You're a 10 level class, so put 10.

See where I'm going with it? Trust me, just take it one line at a time. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 00:30, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * wow i was doing what u were telling me and now i think i just messed up everything i appereate everything ur doing for me but i think it would be just better if u would just plz put in all the info for me plz and ty


 * Huh, wow, that's a first, what's all this "UNIQe940e0c45c4149f2-item-21--QINU" everywhere...


 * Oooooh, I figured it out. Apparently you had deleted the Summery and } tag in your author box, and the wiki got all confused andthoughtthe whole article was an author box.  And then proceeded to go nuts with the nonsense information it was reading.


 * You haven't gone far, the easiest fix is just to revert and try again. Just be careful when you delete things.  Deleting comment tags is a-ok, but deleting other things may cause problems.  Giving it an undo, and just try it again, just with 1 or 2 lines this time.  Try the classname and hitdie first. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 00:52, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * this is y im just asking if u could plz put it in for me because i might just screw up everything and i dont want too mess anything up


 * I'm purposefully not you know. Besides the fact that this is a learning experience, I actually don't have time.  I'm working right now.  Even so, don't be afraid to mess up.  If I had a cookie for every time I botched up my code... and mind you, I've been here for years.  I just happen to be able to figure out what went wrong and (usually) avoid it.


 * You're doing fine, relax. You won't break the whole wiki.  Only I've done that (true story). -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:04, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Spanambula here. I'm just jumping in with a hopefully helpful bit of advice if the code is giving you a headache: find another article here that's similar to what you're wanting, and click edit to look at a finished example of the code (don't change the article you're using as a guideline, tho). Doing that, more than anything else, has helped me get the hang of the wiki. Good luck, and welcome! Spanambula (talk) 01:43, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

ty i will try this again just geting very frustrated is all so i had too just take a little break im trying too get this done fast before tuesday so im trying too rush this


 * Rockin'. Looks like you're already getting things set up. I see BAB, I see saves, yes yes indeed things are looking up.  Out of curiosity, what's so big about Tuesday? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:20, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

im playing d&d tuesday night and i am hopeing that this will be done by then so then i can show my DM and ask him if i can use this perstiage class

Warriors of the Lost Arts
hey can u give me a list of all the specials and in what order they should go into the special list plz and ty. also how can we put into this class bonus against the undead, devils and against demons also are u willing too fix anything that i have forgotten in this class plz and ty


 * I made a minor edit to the class to clean up some of the formatting a little for you since you looked like you were struggling with it. Don't forget to sign your posts (so people know who is talking) with four tildes: " ~ " (which generate into your user name and a time stamp when you save the page or when you hit the "Show preview" button). --Ganteka Future (talk) 04:31, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * genteka what do u think of the class so far and ty very much for ur help i am very much so struggling trying too put all of this togeather this is my first time doing this 04:40, 6 April 2014 (UTC)Joe (talk)joe


 * I haven't been keeping up on the design details of it, sorry, and I don't have the time at the moment to catch up. If Eiji is helping you out though, you're in good hands so long as you listen to and heed his advice. --Ganteka Future (talk) 04:51, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * i am heading his advice and working with him and ty i will do just that i want this too be one the best perstiage classes that i can make for a warriorJoe (talk) 05:01, 6 April 2014 (UTC)joe


 * I'll go ahead and copy/pasta the list above, and fill it out a bit more so you have names to put down. I leave the detailed descriptions up to you though. I believe "bonuses against X" was one of the selectable gimmick powers to choose from.  When you're done putting down mechanics, I'll probably come in after you and clean up grammar and word things.


 * 1) AC Bonus, Damage Reduction, Lost Art, Monk Progression, Voice of the Wise
 * 2) Divine Immunities (polymorphing, petrification)
 * 3) Lost Art
 * 4) Spell Resistance, Voice of the Elders
 * 5) Divine Aura, Lost Art
 * 6) Divine Immunities (ability damage, ability drain, energy drain)
 * 7) Lost Art
 * 8) Divine Aid, Voice of the Ancients
 * 9) Lost Art
 * 10) Elder Lost Art, Outsider Apothesis, Divine Immunities (mind-affecting effects)


 * There we go. Changes made... smite is now monk progression (for unarmed damage, flurry, speed, and AC bonus), things are given actual names.  Gimmick power is now "Lost Art".


 * Do you remember what each thing does? The AC bonus gives you a divine bonus to AC equal to your class level (the PrC, not your character level). Damage reduction gives you DR/alignment equal to your class level, where alignment is whatever is appropriate.  Actually since you made it alignment restricted you can just say DR/evil.  Lost Art is something which you choose each level and gain a benefit, like "bonuses against undead", we'll go over what's what later.  Monk progression says thisclass advances the aforementionedlist of monk abilities, or gives them as per a monk of your class level if you have no levels in monk.  Voice of the Wise is basically bardic knowledge.  Divine immunities is just what's listed.  Spell resistance is self explainatory.


 * I didn't go into the otherlevels of Voice of the X, so may I suggest Voice of the Elders lets you identify creatures as if making a Knowledge check, and Voice of the Ancients lets you duplicate the effect of augury at will. Because you're 16th level and having a 2nd level at will should be fine.


 * Divine Aid is the spell-like ability which lets you either gain a buff, make a debuff, or summon celestial allies. Elder lost art is the super gimmick capstone.  Outsiderapothesis turns you into an outsider and makes you biologically immortal.  Annnnd... that's it. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:06, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

hey i was thinking of changeing the preeqets feats too devine feats is that even ok


 * Of course you can (I would keep the skill pre-req though, that limits you from entering in before 8th). What divine feat? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:27, 6 April 2014 (UTC)


 * http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Divine_Blessing_(3.5e_Feat), http://www.dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Divine_Shield_(3.5e_Feat) ,


 * Oh ha, wow, no you don't want those. Those feats are for my Complete Epic book, and specifically epic feats (and restricted to those who are already gods).  You'd have to be well past 21st to even take the class if you did that. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:07, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

oh ok i was trying too find some feats that would go with this class is all

check over
hey could u plz check everything over and plz tell me what u think plz and ty