Talk:Asuta (3.5e Race)

The "I'd Play That" Ability
It lacks it. Still thinking on it, but here are the current leaders/suggestions: Will it attract players?: Flavorful and useful at later levels, but probably not gonna make the race any more enticing. Making knowledge checks isn't very fun.
 * +? To Knowledge (plains) for identifying outsiders and elementals and other extraplanar creatures.

Will it attract players?: Likely no, as it's more of a convenience and less of something fun the player gets to make use of with the race, unless he's a shape-changing maniac or some other specific thing. This ability would allow them to wear humanoid armor (which is fine anyhow).
 * Instantaneously reform armor to fit body.

Will it attract players?: Again, probably no. It's kinda silly, and only mildly fits the flavor. Mostly causes characters to seem specific as the race and not because of their character-ness that their players imbued them with.
 * Talk to animals.

Will it attract players?: Pretty minimal, and likely no. Useful yeah, and fits the idea of "I've been places and seen things" or "I'm not your typical (fill in the blank class)."
 * Pick a skill, it's now a class skill (not UMD/UPD).

It's rather difficult thinking of a defining, unique ability of low power available for use for any class and useful at all levels of play that is also fun to use. So this is my dilemma. I shall be thinking on it for the next few days. Suggestions or input on this or anything else about the race is always welcomed and encouraged. --Ganteka Future 06:09, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Where are Teh Modifierz?!
Yes, I know I misspelled, cut me some slack, I'm drunk right now. Still, where are the ability modifiers? Not to mention the wing thingies? Are they a template? This needs a little bit more work... It's a nice idea though, I applaud it.--Soulblazer 87 20:19, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * There aren't ability modifiers for the base race. Though, they do get a bunch through their racial paragon class. That's also where they strengthen their wings for use (otherwise, in the base race, they're just decorative). Though, with another project I'm currently working on, I'll probably port over a mechanic that provides a bonus from having these weak wings. --Ganteka Future 20:34, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, that's just the problem with this race. You effectively 'force' players to follow the paragon class for ten levels. Which is why I don't like this race. Instead, I'd advise giving them the ability to strengthen their wings progressively anyway, a la Raptoran if you will, along with a couple basic modifiers.--Soulblazer 87 19:45, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is some form of mechanical benefit missing from this race currently (as discussed under the first heading of this page). It's a little bare bones, and with failure to drum up interest, this problem was never resolved. Also, I'd like to discuss a bit of the history of this article (the reason for this will become apparent at the end). A keen eye will notice that this article is adopted. The original article however, was very bad. I think it contained maybe 2-4 sentences of flavor text with some basic (and horrible and broken) racial traits, like +17 to ability modifiers. It was quite unplayable. In fact, it was so bad that it was deleted. However, I reinstated it for someone else who had shown interest in adopting it. That individual never did, so I did instead and used it as practice for making a race with racial HD instead of LA. Still playing a race with a mandatory 6 levels or whatever it was just wasn't attractive. At some point I tried to apply a Savage Species style Monstrous Progression to it, but that was later reworked into this base race with a racial paragon.
 * So, with the change to a base LA 0 race with a paragon class, so I had to change how I approached design of the base race. I decided if it was going to see use as a character, it was either going to be by people who wanted it as a base race, but not as a paragon, and those who would take the full 8 levels of the paragon class instead of taking levels in a base class to start. I figured there would be very little in-between. If I added ability modifiers to start, it would eliminate certain types of characters from ever being this race (those ones who wouldn't take the paragon). That is to say, if I geared the base race with ability modifiers, it would have to be toward associated bonuses for physical characters, putting the nix on a load of spellcasters. Plus, outsiders are generally "good at everything because they're awesome like that", so giving them a +2/-2 didn't feel right (and neither did giving them just a +2 of their choice, which was considered, but tossed aside due to balance problems).
 * With a goal of trying to make the race appeal to a wide variety of possible characters, like human does, I just got stumped. In the first heading on this page above, I tossed out what ideas I had, none of which I was satisfied with.
 * I do like the idea of giving an independent flight progression for players who don't want to take the paragon class just to get that, so that's probably an oversight on my part there. Thanks for bringing that up. I was going to port over Little Wings from the new Deva Proselyte (3.5e Prestige Class) (which I'm also still working on). At this point, I think I'd consider giving an independent flight progression via a racial feat that stacks with the flight granted by their paragon class, or just open enough so that it works with any race with flight. Such a prospect is likely a tricky endeavor. Another option would be to have something like:


 * Flight Burst (Ex): Stretching those wings out, you can totally fly, it's just kinda difficult, putting a strain on your body as though you were running. You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed with a maneuverability based on your Dexterity (which I'm not figuring out for this demonstration, but I'd imagine you'd need somewhere around a 22 Dexterity for perfect maneuverability at the minimum). So, you can fly, perhaps with a starting DC of 15 instead of 10 after the first round. Anyways, if you want to keep flying, you have to make a check, otherwise, you can only glide.


 * Perhaps add some sort of HD-based limitation in there as well with the target of 5 HD being "acceptable combat capable flight" as the goal and keeping it useful at all levels of gameplay. I'd like to get some more opinions on all of this, so comments are welcome from anyone who can get through that massive wall of text above and not go cross-eyed.--Ganteka Future 20:50, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, you mostly just fixed the flight thing. I mean, it must sound really stupid to have a race with wings and yet not be able to fly. Completely illogical. To that end, when I make stuff, I try to make them seem logical, thought out and generally make sense (even if they don't sometimes). So, going for the ability modifiers, I'd give them a +4Cha, since outsiders tend to be seriously charismatic even if they are ugly as all hells, and -2 to one physical stat of the player's choice, reflecting which outsider heritage is more powerful within them. Someone with archon blood wouldn't be physically weaker, but he may be slower to react. Something like that.--Soulblazer 87 21:02, October 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * This response is posted so that readers may avoid confusion. I'll be blunt.
 * No, it is not stupid or illogical to avoid giving a winged LA0 race a flight capacity. An addition made to the game (here in the form of a race) needs to be mechanically sound. That option is not. I also don't like how the raptoran is designed, so no need to mention that again.
 * The ability modifiers, as I mentioned above, are found in the racial paragon. No, you aren't required to take it and not taking it doesn't hurt the character. The paragon class is just there like prestige classes. Not everyone takes them. The race is designed to attract a multitude of character options. Skewing racial ability modifiers from the start does the opposite of that. --Ganteka Future 06:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Wings and Other Things
Added in a level-appropriate wing usage ability. I'm still not really happy with how it meshes with the paragon though, but it's in for now until something better comes along.

Also, I think I forgot to mention that the quote is from an actual song, found here for free (and legal) download at your convenience: Miike Snow-Animal-Free MP3 of the Day. I listened to this song heavily while writing the article (and also drawing the image). --Ganteka Future 06:04, 6 January 2011 (UTC)