Talk:Natural Fighter (3.5e Feat)

This is my first attempt at a homebrew scaling feat so any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Amdillae (talk) 12:22, 12 April 2014 (UTC)


 * This isn't bad stuff here, though it may need some balancing out. I have a few thoughts, and I may have more later.
 * The 0 level ability is basically the Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike feats combined, which are difficult feats to get and are used in some really cheesy builds (e.g., King of Smack). That doesn't make it bad per se, just powerful, so be aware. What I don't like is that this is the first level ability, and no one's going to see iterative attacks until BAB 6 at the earliest. I'd move this to the BAB 6 slot accordingly. The ability to pick what kind of damage your nat weapon does is nice, and I think would work well here instead.
 * Getting Magic Fang/Greater Magic Fang is nice, but I would limit the enhancement bonus to a maximum of +5 at 15th level, which is the largest numeric enhancement a weapon is supposed to have pre-epic. It also makes sense given that at BAB 16 you're give them an unlimited number of natural attacks to which this feat applies. This the second ability in a row that you get before you can gain any benefit from it, unless you've multiclassed with 2 medium or low BAB progression classes. You could just change the BAB at which you get this to 3 instead of one, guaranteeing that you get the +1 benefit right away.
 * Getting an adrenalized version of Snap Kick and applying it to AoOs as well is nice, but the +4 seems like overkill since you're not taking the normal -2 penalty to all your attacks like snap kick or flurry. You might also specify that this applies only to your Natural Attack. You also specify only standard attacks and AoOs. Does this not work on a full attack action? That would seem odd, considering the feat concept.
 * The BAB 11 tentacle attack... did you mean to say "as if you had Improved Grab"? That would make more sense IMO.
 * Here is what will happen at 16. You will be a Druid, and you will have taken the Frozen Wild Shape feat. You will wildshape into a huge 12-headed cryohydra. You now have at least 36 bite attacks per round, each of which deals 1 Con damage. Everything that isn't undead, a construct, or otherwise immune to ability damage is dead. Your DM hates you, and the other players hate you because you just took 15 minutes to roll attacks and add up damage for 36 separate attacks. ***EDIT*** Ok, I spaced on the fact that a Druid won't see BAB 16 without some kind of optimization. Divine Power and Tenser's Transformation would both work, but neither are on the Druid list. There are feats here on the wiki that would work, but I try not to judge a wiki feat based on how it interacts with other wiki feats. So this would still work, but would take more effort than I thought.
 * No love for wings?
 * That's all I got for now. Spanambula (talk) 21:38, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Or tails, for that matter? --Undead_Knave (talk) 00:33, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Wow thanks for the fast feedback, I have made some of the suggested changes, but there were some I kept as is. One was the enhancement bonus as it is identical to two other scaling feats (unarmed combat and mindblade). I do realize that the feat is really overpowered but that was what I was going for with for the feat, something to maximize the cheese. For the BAB +16 bite benefit I am really struggling for something to put in there (I only put in wounding because I had forgotten how many bites something like a hydra would get). With regards to both wings and tails I thought that they both were technically slap attacks so they should be covered. --Amdillae (talk) 03:02, 13 April 2014 (UTC)


 * 'Sting: The DC for your sting’s poison is increased by 5' +5? Whoa, wait a minute, there! That's almost an auto-win! Also, even though it's a no-brainer, I guess you should mention that damage is for a Medium sized creature, where applicable (example: tentacle's constrict). -HarrowedMind (talk) 17:32, 13 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I disagree. DCs for natural poisons usually scale horribly with regard to average save results as PCs level. By the time you hit 11th level, even if you've optimized decently, it will be powerful but not OP. Besides, around that range is where you start seeing poison immunity pop up more frequently, and anti-poison magic is readily available and affordable. So it's basically an at-will save-or-suck against certain types of creatures. YMMV of course, but I don't see this as gamebreaking unless the poison's effect is ridiculously powerful. Spanambula (talk) 23:21, 13 April 2014 (UTC)