Talk:Extreme Training (3.5e Feat)

Comments
This feat is a somewhat broad numbers boost. Hit points, saves, skills, bonus spells and power points all get a bump, making this potentially useful for any class. The 1st level only part of it means that it delays the acquisition of feat based abilities for a while, but that delay doesn't really matter in games with other VH feats that don't need to be chained together to be useful. Still, most classes would be trading actual abilities for numbers with it, because of pretty limited feat numbers, and it probably works out as a trade. I find it extremely uninteresting though, and would probably not use it in my games. - Tarkisflux Talk 18:38, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Any suggestion to make it interesting? --Leziad (talk) 17:43, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Not really, short of giving it something interesting to do (which might well overload it). I'm pretty over number feats in general, even ones like this that sort of let you suffer less with a low skill point / poor fort save class. They're certainly useful, just bland. Merging a couple of them into a level 1 only feat doesn't do much to spice them up I think, and I'm not really sold on the need to merge them up like this in the first place. I'm sure it's interesting to people who want bigger numbers or who want to gather up a bunch of other numbers feats in one place to take and be done-ish, I'm just not one of them. - Tarkisflux Talk 18:38, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Actually, you could maybe steal Gan's masterwork natural weapons thing. The rest of masterwork body seems unnecessary, but training that allowed you to enchant yourself on top of the rest of it opens up a few things I think. Something like that might work anyway. - Tarkisflux Talk 22:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Righto let me ponder on that, I think I may be able to spice this feat. --Leziad (talk) 23:01, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Complete overhaul, I feel I made the feat less busy, more in line with wizard level material and of course way more fun to pick. --Leziad (talk) 00:14, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I may ad a few additional training there, made some tweaks to the numbers and try to keep each ability either numerically useful or unique. --Leziad (talk) 05:49, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * I've turned my rating into a comment for posterity, since I'll need to replace it later anyway based on the new version. Anyway, I like the "pick 2" thing you've got going on. Some questions about the individual bits:
 * What immediate actions can you use with body language mastery? What if you don't have any immediate actions to use? Possibly change to "can make an attack as an immediate action"? Might also be worth a call to sense motive (with a bonus) to be able to use the ability.
 * Does body therapy grant an armor or natural bonus? Is it intended to just be a second canvas on which to paint armor qualities?
 * Exotic martial training seems a bit weak in comparison to the others.
 * Inhuman reflexes should probably limit those benefits to medium armor / load rather than any, or possibly downgrade them one step when you overload yourself. So perfect uncanny dodge would downgrade to improved uncanny dodge in medium armor or whatever.
 * Subconscious programming is pretty funny.
 * Think I'm good for now. - Tarkisflux Talk 06:32, 28 February 2014 (UTC)


 * For Body language you do not start with one, however if you were to aquire say counters or other actions using immediate action it will allow you to react to it before the action ever happen.
 * It intended to be a second canvas, although I am open to change it.
 * I agree but it has it uses in quite a few builds. By example it precious to would be gishes to get martial proficiency without spending a class level.
 * I will think about that for Inhuman reflex.
 * Some changes may be coming in the following hours/day and should make a few things clear and close the gap between some abilities. --Leziad (talk) 07:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Fighter Type
... why? - Tarkisflux Talk 06:04, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * So fighter can get it as their 1st level bonus feat. I guess it not necessary but i felt it did no harm. --Leziad (talk) 06:12, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Did you want them to be able to get 2 "1st level only" feats if they selected Fighter as their class? - Tarkisflux Talk 06:51, 27 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes that was the goal. --Leziad (talk) 12:35, 27 February 2014 (UTC)