Talk:Butcher Axe (3.5e Equipment)

Too weak?
Why all the penalties? All it is is a greatsword with a x4 crit. This is good, but that alone is just an exotic weapon of moderate value for a feat. Then you have penalties for swinging it. Not really needed, unless you bump up the damage considerable I figure, at least two sizes for the penalties given (though I'm more in favor of lowering the penalties and pumping it up to 2d8 or 3d6). -- Eiji-kun 05:23, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this does seem a lot extreme for an exotic weapon. It's not worth it, and making it worth it probably pushes it out of the bounds of starting equipment. I think I'd just drop it, since it's pretty much in line with exotics to begin with. - Tarkisflux 05:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this was one of my first articles. I wasn't entirely sure how to make a weapon back then, and this was to mirror the Fullblade, but with a x4 crit. Looking back, now, you're correct. I could likely up the damage some. The original draft had it at around 4d6, if I recall correctly, but, that's likely too much. What about 2d8 or 3d6? &rarr; Rith (talk) 06:20, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Are you trying to justify the penalty at this point? If so, why? Is there something about it that you think adds something to the blade? I honestly think you could just drop it and be fine with everything else as is.
 * If you really want one though, give it a -1 to hit and 2d8 damage with the x4 crit. Then it's still a basically average exotic weapon, but it also basically requires you to power attack a bit with each strike since you get -1 to attack for an extra 2 points of damage, when compared to a greatsword/axe. Making the penalties any higher than that to justify making it any better is probably making it too good for a basic piece of equipment, as we all know that strong drawbacks are never actually weathered by smart players. - Tarkisflux 07:44, 23 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm not trying to justify anything, dude. I'm just talking, and acting as though I won't remove the penalty, which I won't. You give me an idea, though. Perhaps I could make the penalty never really vanish? That way it could perhaps even be a 2d10, but just have the user always have at least a -1 penalty to attack roll (if they have the Weapon Focus feat. -2 without it, so, Weapon Focus in this case would act like a second Exotic Weapon feat, to now wield it without penalty). What think? &rarr; Rith (talk) 00:13, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * A -1 to hit with a +2 (average) damage looks a lot like a single step of power attack (on average). You're basically writing an exotic weapon that requires you to take 2 steps of power attack every time you swing it, and these steps stack with normal power attack to allow you to exceed your normal BAB limit to power attack. I think one step, my original suggestion, on top of a x4 crit modifier makes for a reasonable exotic weapon. I don't think 2 steps does, and I think you're past the limits of normal equipment purchasable by a level 1 character at that point. In short, I don't like it. If you wanted to turn it into a weapon that allowed you to power attack beyond your normal limits, in some way that scaled with level, that would probably work out better. - Tarkisflux 01:16, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, the idea just boils down to one thing: Which of the following makes an acceptable equipment that a sane person would actually use: 2d8 with x4 crit and an eternal -1 penalty, 2d8 with a x4 crit, or a 2d10 with x4 crit and an eternal -1 penalty? Cast your votes, folks! &rarr; Rith (talk) 02:34, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * While 2d8, x4, no penalty is best, I like the gimmick of eternal power attack. So I might want 2d10, x4, -1 or -2. -- 24.125.209.121 02:41, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Acceptable equipment and equipment sane people would use aren't necessarily the same thing. So I'm going to ignore the sane thing and go with acceptable, and I consider the 2d8 x4 with a -1 to be that, since that includes a crit mult boost for the exotic and the eternal power attack all at the same time. I don't consider the other options acceptable for a standard piece of gear, but I think sane people would take them just the same. - Tarkisflux 03:30, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I've been polling my group about what they think as well, and most votes are falling at 2d8 x4, no penalty. I'm fine with that one, so, we're currently at:


 * 2d8 x4 -1 Penalty: 2
 * 2d8 x4 No Penalty: 1.5
 * 2d10 x4 -1 Penalty: .5


 * Anyone interested in this matter, please cast a vote. &rarr; Rith (talk) 10:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


 * 2d8 x4 -1 Penalty. --Havvy 10:57, 10 February 2011 (UTC)