Talk:Elemental Blade (3.5e Class)

Perhaps you could have the elemental weapon deal Weapon damage * (Elemental Blade Level/2)?173.51.231.199 05:59, March 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Perhaps I could, but I'm not sure that's the best way to make their weapon ability worthwhile. Also, it would make Scythe or Large Greataxe characters possibly more excessive than they should be. --Foxwarrior 18:59, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

Progression
First, what is a "primary element"? Can the elemental blade choose any two elements at first level?

Secondly, the enhancement progression is weird, since it eventually allows the elemental blade to use more damage types simultaneously than he has access to. Does this mean that the last enhancement bonus is simply another +1?

Way Overpowered
if i understand the class correctly, out the door elemental weapon says you make any weapon that tickles your fancy that round, and it is basically dealing 2x normal damage, (one instance for every energy type he has access to, and he starts with 2). every "Extra element" he receives means this weapon moves to 3x, 4x, 5x, and finally 6x normal damage for the weapon type, in raw elemental damage. this seems fundamentally wrong. i realize that as elemental damage, this can be resisted or even negated, but odds are good that your opponent isn't going to resist all the types you are throwing around and will still be taking significantly more damage than if he was swinging a conventional weapon.

and i'm sorry, but does Elemental enhancement ALSO say it adds an extra instance of weapon damage to the elemental weapon? so now we're talking multiples i don't want to bother adding up becuase it hurts? he also gains whirlwind-esque, lines, cones, and touch attacks, of ANY element he has access to, (6 by level 20) and at level 20 he is now being healed by 6 out of 9 forms of energy. he can take his ludricously multiplied weapon, and smack himself in the head with it, and heal himself upwards of 10x that +6 weapon's normal damage per hit, 4 times, 5 if he's chosen fire as one of his elements.

now a short rant on the Elemental Armor. a lv 2 character being able to manifest fullplate as a swift action just seems wrong.

i'm not saying the idea of having a bunch of elements, or eventually being healed by them, or the other special attacks are bad class feature concepts. i'm saying putting them all together with the armor and weapon in their current state is severe overkill. you poured a lot of good ideas into this class, but putting them all in one class has created a class that is incredibly overpowered. if this character is supposed to be slightly magical melee, then pull out the energy attacks and summoning and leave the cirle attack. i'm tempted to say you should split this class in to two, make a melee guy who focuses on the shortrange fighting skills, (weapon, armor, circluar attack, etc.) and one that works as a elemental blaster mage (bolts, line, blast, summoning, etc.)

no matter what you do you need to tone the elemental weapon and armor down, perhaps limiting the number of elements actively dealing damage at one time for the weapon and limiting the types of armor he can conjure by level, (light->meduim->heavy) gradually building up to creating +6 fullplate at the drop of a hat. p.s. also i apologize if i seem overly critical or am wrong in my interpretation of this class's features.--Azerinth 23:11, May 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Overpowered compared to what exactly? That's not a useful claim without a point of reference. The point of reference Fox aimed for is rogue level balance. You're arguments don't contend that it fails to meet that point, just that it fails to meet some point that isn't well defined. So you might still be right, but you probably need to reframe your points. - TarkisFlux 00:32, May 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oops, did the extra element thing twice as much as I should have.


 * Getting full plate as a swift action is not very important most of the time: ordinary people with full plate can simply wear it all the time they're not asleep. --Foxwarrior 19:22, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Level 10 SGT
Tanglefoot is a half-orc elemental blade. He has avoided stretching the definition of primary and has taken Fire, Electricity, Acid, and Force.

Tanglefoot has the feats Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, and Knock Down Tanglefoot's attributes are 22/8/9/13/8/6 from starting stats of 18/8/9/15/8/8. He has had Permanent Enlarge Person cast on him for 2,960 gold. He is now large, and has attributes of 24/6/9/13/8/6 He has only 38 hitpoints.

He naturally has an extra attack at full BAB -5, free 10' steps, +4 bonus vs bull rushes and being tripped, and can teleport his move speed every 1d4+1 rounds as a move action.

His +4 armor grants him: 1d6 fire damage in grapples (I'll assume this functions like spiked armor), 10' of extra base movement speed, 2d6 damage to weapons that attack him (I'll ignore how this damages a bow that's a long way away), and DR 3/-. His AC is 10+8+4-2, or 20. He normally wears a chain shirt (4 AC), but switches to full plate (8 AC) as a swift action after closing.

He normally wields a +4 Large Guisarme. It does 2d6 fire damage, 2d6 electricity damage, 2d6 acid damage, 2d6 force damage, and 4 magic damage. It has a reach of 15 or 20ft, can be used to make trip attacks, and can be dropped instead of being tripped when tripped back.

His attack is +22 = 10 + 9 (strength) + 4 (enhancement) -1 size. His trip checks are +17 = 9 (strength) + 4 (size) +4 (improved trip) and +21 defending due to his acid armor.

He has 46,040 GP in wealth, and a budget of 490 gp/encounter. He owns something along these lines:
 * 12,000 Boots of Speed
 * 16,000 Belt of Giant Strength +4
 * 4,000 Gloves of Dexterity +2
 * 2,000 Amulet of Natural Armor +1
 * 2,000 Ring of Protection +1
 * 1,000 Cloak of Resistance +1

He uses various potions including Cure, Enlarge Person (backup), Fly, True Strike.


 * 0-10% A hallway filled with magical runes. If he notices is somehow then he can simply teleport into the middle of it. Most likely it kills him.
 * >99% A Fire Giant. He hastes himself, and teleports to 20 ft from the giant and attacks with his guisarme. He fails to hit the giant only on a natural one. He does 7d6 + 13 damage and initiates a trip attack (+17 vs +14). If he doesn't lose his guisarme he swift actions full plate, otherwise he swifts up a new guisarme. No matter what, the giant gets AOed before attacking, resulting in another trip. If the giant succeeds in both trips (less than one quarter of the time), he attacks and does at most 3d6 + 15 - 3 damage, which is never enough to kill Tanglefoot. Tanglefoot takes a free 10' step and makes two attacks at full bonus and two at -5. The fire giant has now taken at least 28d6 + 52 damage, and probably more, and is now dead.
 * 33-66% A Young Blue Dragon. If the dragon is on the ground, Tanglefoot teleports to it and trips it as before. The dragon breathes on Tanglefoot, killing him almost exactly half the time. The other half, the dragon dies. If the dragon is airborne Tanglefoot kites it, waits for it to get close and teleports directly underneath it. He chugs a potion of fly. The dragon breathes, killing Tanglefoot half the time. If the dragon engages, Tanglefoot kills it. Otherwise it's a race to see who has less time on their d4. Tanglefoot has the edge of since the dragon had to turn to engage him. He teleports into the air in front of the dragon and trips it. If he beats it by at least a turn he gets AOs and kills it before it breathes again, killing him.
 * <25% A Bebilith. The bebilith hides, pounces on Tanglefoot, and grapples him. Tanglefoot has a small chance of escaping and killing it.
 * 0-50% A Vrock. The Vrock's telekinesis beats Tanglefoot's grapple. This is decided by initiative (which the vrock has the edge at) or range (again the vrock's edge). If Tanglefoot can chug a potion of fly and teleport into the air with it and trip it he's got a good chance. He must win two grapples to do so.
 * 0-10% A tag team of Mind Flayers. Tanglefoot teleports in and kills one. The other one kills tanglefoot.
 * 10-90% An Evil Necromancer. This one is entirely won by circumstances. Tanglefoot wins if the necromancer doesn't know he exists until he's within about 80 feet. Otherwise tanglefoot loses.
 * 100% 6 Trolls. Tanglefoot whips out his ray, and demolishes these without letting them mob him.
 * 50-100% 12 Shadows. Tanglefoot might not notice these and thus allow himself to get mobbed.

If I bothered to look up potions with temporary hitpoints, other defensive abilities he'd do better. He could last much longer against the dragon chugging temporary hp or heal spells. Total he wins 32-54% of his fights. Used correctly and without assuming he fails every single save, he's almost certainly right around rogue balance point. -Cedges 02:38, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

Showcased
Heya, looking over the different classes to showcase for grimoire, and wanted to know if I could add this to the category. Lemme know if that's alright? Also, Blessed by the Elements positive version--that's only on attacks, and once per round, right? Or can he constantly heal his whole party by blasting tons of enemies in one go? --Ghostwheel 12:14, September 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't see why it should only be once per round; he can, after all, blast his allies with all sorts of AoE's of positive or negative energy.
 * As to grimoire, I've already said that I emphatically don't mind, so stop asking. --Foxwarrior 20:07, September 8, 2010 (UTC)