Talk:Forewarned is Foreguarded (3.5e Feat)

Comments
There's a lot here that I don't like, but we'll start with the bonus size and spellcraft check first. You do know that the spellcraft check is 15+ spell level right? So with the minimum skill ranks (12) and intelligence modifier (+3) they have a +15 to their check. They automatically ID 1st level spells, and ID 9th level spells more than half the time (and eventually get to auto ID them too). And since it doesn't take an action, they can do it against every cast spell if they want. So... was the intent to give them +6 SR and save bonus against almost every spell that isn't cast in ambush against them? - Tarkisflux Talk 20:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The intent was the idea that if you know how a spell works, you have a pretty good idea of how to defend yourself against it. Maybe the bonus can be halved against a spell that you don't know yourself? --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ... So, "yes" then? It was intended to give people bonuses against everything since they have a negligible (if not actually 0 because there is no auto-fail on 1 rule for skills) chance of failure? Because that is what it does. By level 17, 8 levels after you acquire this feat, you never fail to ID level 9 spells. If that mechanical effect is intentional, you might as well cut the check and simplify to just give it to them. The failure chance here is not significant at any level, so it's not adding very much other than fluff IMO. And if that mechanical effect is not intentional, then you need to rework your core mechanic because that is what you are doing, fluff intentions aside. - Tarkisflux Talk 21:52, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * No, the mechanical effect wasn't intentional. I just thought the effect was powerful enough that it justified some high prerequisites. I'll tone down the prerequisites so that this feat can be taken while there's still a failure chance, then. --Luigifan18 (talk) 22:09, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * So... it's intentional for you to outgrow the failure chance? And for you to auto-ID 9th level spells as soon as you acquire them? - Tarkisflux Talk 22:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes, it's intentional to eventually outgrow the failure chance. Not to already be well on your way there when you first take the feat! And I didn't realize that you could auto-ID 9th-level spells at the same level that you became able to use them - I thought the Spellcraft DC was higher than it actually was. (Too much time around epic spells, I suppose - have you seen their DCs? I made Rod's Boon and the "Excellent Trainee" feat chain primarily to make those more manageable!) --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:20, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I've seen the Epic DCs, but never spent much time playing with them in an actual game. But that was years ago, and I've pretty much written off everything over level 20 as a "big unworkable mess that isn't worth worrying about" (Eiji's in progress work not withstanding). So I don't really worry about them much anymore.


 * Anyway, I had a thought that might be helpful. Make the bonus cost an immediate action, so most characters are limited to 1 per round. It's still a big bonus and they're still extremely likely to get it and there's still a bunch of stuff attached to it that I don't think necessary or useful, but that at least limits it a bit more than the skill check does and may impact them in other ways. Alternately, you could let them have a 10' move as an immediate after IDing a spell so that they can just get out of the way instead of worrying about bonuses and whatnot. - Tarkisflux Talk 02:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I just had a better idea, which I've just implemented. If you have to recall information in a big hurry, isn't it harder to recall that information? So, I decided that this feat increases Spellcraft DCs. You can use an immediate action to offset the DC increase a bit. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Personally, I don't like that Eiji plans to completely remove epic spellcasting. But I'll have to wait and see what he actually replaces it with to pass judgment. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:54, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

As a Scaling feat
Would this be better? Forewarned is Foreguarded [Skill] (flavor text) Benefits: This is a skill feat that scales with your ranks in Spellcraft. - Fluffykittens
 * 0 ranks: You gain a +10 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify a spell being cast.
 * 4 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed, you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells that allow spell resistance.
 * 9 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed, you gain +2 SR (or SR 8+LVL, whichever is higher)against spells that allow spell resistance.
 * 14 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed, you gain both evasion and mettle against spells that allow spell resistance.
 * 19 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed, you can choose to ignore the effects of one spell that allows spell resistance per round.


 * Yes. Yes it would. - Tarkisflux Talk 02:53, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ...I tried making a scaling feat once. It was a mess to get everything sorted out, and the page still looks kinda untidy. Plus, if I use the cleaner Tome format, that restricts the progression patterns I can use and automatically associates the feat with the Tome, which I feel like I shouldn't do without the permission of its authors. It's a cool idea, though. I like this feat as is, but perhaps I can use this idea as a Tome-style variant, as soon as I figure out how to work within the engine. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:57, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * The Tome authors have explicitly said that they don't care who makes what with their work. There is rather a lot of Tome homebrew here that is not written by the original duo. So if that was stopping you, it shouldn't. The more fixed structure is certainly a stronger reason not to do that though. - Tarkisflux Talk 03:31, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Streamlining Time
SMW::off SMW::on

There. Essentially the same. As one of the versions you had it at, anyways. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:04, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * ...It is simpler, but I'm pretty happy with the feat the way it is. I suppose I could eliminate some of the prerequisites, but... no, I don't want to rework the psuedo-scaling all over again... *sigh* --Luigifan18 (talk) 03:14, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * It's not about the prerequisites. It's that when I have to present a lot of homebrew to the DM, it's a lot easier to present something that's three sentences long instead of three paragraphs long for the same thing. Surgo (talk) 03:23, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Also, there's no really amazing way to sort through feats, so every time you make a character you have to read at least 10% of the feats at that balance point. Until you've essentially memorized every feat, I suppose. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)