Talk:Schrödinger's Cat (3.5e Monster)

Familiar
Needs familiar information. What level is it available at? -- Eiji-kun 20:47, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Most monsters cannot be familiars: By default a creature can only be a familiar if some rule says it can.--Ideasmith 01:26, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I know, but its tag has it listed as one, which is why I brought it up. -- Eiji-kun 14:57, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It says in the description that it is a cat familiar poisoned with cyanide, so in theory it is available when you can get Fluffy some cyanide.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 19:17, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * If you kill your familiar you have... a dead familiar, with rules in place what happens. So it cannot be just killing your familiar.  What is the process?  We don't know, it needs to be written down.  Anyway, Schrodinger's is superior to your standard issue Cat familiar, and I don't see free upgrades being the point.  It still needs familiar information. -- Eiji-kun 23:07, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that is the case in a world without this monster, but in a world that includes this monster, killing cat familiars with cyanide creates these things. That is the established process. The only question would be how heartless would you have to be to kill a magical beast, more so an extension of your soul, just to have a suped-up cat?--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 01:13, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I don't think you understand, here, let's make another example, more extreme so you can realize the problem here.


 * "Oh yeah, about this monster, where you kill your rat familiar and it turns into a Rat-Balor. Yeah, that is the case in a world without this monster, but in a world that includes this Rat-Balor, killing rats familiars with cyanide creates these things. That is the established process. The only question would be how heartless would you have to be to kill a magical beast, more so an extension of your soul, just to have a suped-up rat?"


 * Did you catch it? Your argument is "superior monsters for free isn't unbalanced because if the world allows superior monsters for free then they aren't unbalanced."  And that's stupid.  This needs familiar information on how to get it and what changes to the rules, if any, apply. -- Eiji-kun 01:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The cat's bite is specified as being cyanide, and the effects thereof do not include turning the target, feline or otherwise, into a Schrödinger's cat. Debihuman may or may not have intended a free upgrade. Either way, she has some clarifying to do.


 * Yes, that is my argument entirely- if you allow this monster into your world, you are accepting that cats killed with cyanide creates this monster and need to prepare for that. It is no different than say... (flips through MM) killing a mass murder without prosecution to create a Mohrg, getting nommed on by lycanthropes to become one, playing patty cake with a vampire or wight to become one, or having Vecna grope some villagers to death to get a town of Bodaks. These exist as standard monsters in D&D, and have entirely "free" costs by your definition of the term.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 20:43, 14 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The point went over your head. All those examples were monsters.  We're talking about a class feature.  As a class feature, it needs to be balanced for PCs.  Though, irrelevant now, I got in contact with Debihuman (who did some edits herself).  It's not meant to be a familiar.  And so, the problem is solved. -- Eiji-kun 22:23, 14 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Still doesn't solve your original problem- access. Yes, every single one of my examples was a monster. Every single one of my examples is also "free" access by your rather encompassing definition of the term. All listed monsters could concievebly be bred for players or player could become them. It doen't matter if this thing still grants the benefits of a familiar or not. What matters is if you are comfortable with the possiblity of players accessing this monster. If yes, include it in your world and plan for consequences. If not, leave it out.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 01:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Those things aren't free. When a PC is bit by a werewolf, they gain werewolf powers... at the cost of RHD and LA.  Same thing for vampires.  Or many undead.  Sometimes the cost is becoming an NPC (becoming a skeleton means you're an NPC... same with Bodaks).  These are all mechanical costs, which is why you don't see wizards running around getting bitten by monsters and various transformative things for the power boost.  LA and RHD are a real cost with real side effects.


 * Most people avoid obtaining these things as it disrupts whatever build they were going for, and thus cure or prevent their occurance. Only those who are willing to pay the cost would do such a thing.  Myth Busted. -- Eiji-kun 01:32, 15 February 2012 (UTC)


 * The avoidance is only there if the GM has you hand over your character sheet once transformed. Otherwise there is no cost. LA only means something if you are building the character that way from the begining. Players with any brain matter and a weak GM realize this. LA means nothing if you can just go and become that something in play.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 19:15, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, you do see wizards running around and getting turned into vampires and werewolves in D&D. They had to change those monsters in 4e precisely because that was happening.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 19:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

(Indet reset) So "The cost doesn't matter if your DM just ignores it!" Beautiful. -- Eiji-kun 01:30, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Dead and Alive
It should be both dead and alive. Something like:

Dead and Alive (Su): Schrödinger's cat is both dead and alive. With respect to any effect it counts as an Animal, Undead creature, or both, whichever is most beneficial. --Aarnott 19:48, 7 February 2012 (UTC)


 * It isn't, though. During the day it is a cat familiar completely indistinguishable from other cat familiars, thus it is a magical beast (familiars are never animals). At night it's undead. What you suggest means it would be both at the same time, which gets into Deathless bullshit.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 22:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually perfer Aarnott's version, it's closer to the spirit of Schrodinger, that you can't be sure if its alive or dead at any one moment. At the moment, it's easy... it's dead at night, alive in the day. -- Eiji-kun 23:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Yar har! I take your idea and birth my own! -- Eiji-kun 05:49, 9 February 2012 (UTC)