Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Legend

So, a bunch of new pages for Legend have just popped up. And I'm not sure how I feel about that, since there has been no discussion on that sort of mission and hosting expansion. We have also previously frowned on people putting PF material up here, and this seems like a bit of departure from that policy.

So before anymore stuff gets done on it, I'd like to talk about it first. Do we as a wiki want alternate 3.5e based systems supported on the wiki? If so, what criteria do we want for them, and where are we going to draw the line to host or not to host? Do we want full nav for them with a sidebar link?

For myself, I don't particularly want to host it. It looks like Ghost definitely does though, so let's discuss. - Tarkisflux Talk 21:47, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Ok, wtf? The legend forum is already announcing that we're going to be hosting their stuff. I'm moving on to actually annoyed now. I would have much preferred a discussion here before setting things up with them, as this is not a loop I enjoy being out of. - Tarkisflux Talk 21:52, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * We as a community are chiefly focused on 3.5e. We've seen what happens when we branch beyond that to satisfy one or two people here who play some other game -- the 4e section is languishing with absolutely no QC and few contributors, and the d20 Modern section is literally in ruins. I'm opposed as well. --DanielDraco (talk) 21:55, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I should clarify that I am opposed unless we can show that there is a sizable group that will be actively involved in the Legends section. More people than just GW and Surgo. Like, six, at the bare minimum. --DanielDraco (talk) 22:10, 12 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd talked about it with Surgo before going forward, and he said that it was okay--are we changing that? Second, Legend has a strong homebrew base, and bringing in that vibrant population would increase our traffic, bring in new blood (and boy, do we need it...), and it's not just "one or two" people--the game is already big, and getting bigger all the time especially since their first official iteration is coming out shortly.
 * That said, 4e and d20 modern never had a big fanbase amongst homebrewers, 4e because everyone had easy access to the character generator, a program that was used due to the immense amounts of errata that wasn't homebrew-friendly, and d20 modern just because it sucked, period. On the other hand, the creators of Legend actively encourage individuals to create homebrew for use by the community, rather than just ignoring it like WotC did for the most part.
 * I do think though, that if we don't jump on this the section will start to languish as people start to become disinterested and forget about using the wiki as a repository for homebrew, which is why I wanted to strike while the iron was hot after getting permission from Surgo. --Ghostwheel (talk) 01:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Pathfinder has just as much homebrew going on in a bunch of places, and we have repeatedly passed on adding it here. So why is this different? If it's not different (it doesn't look like it is to me) and we add Legend, what else are we adding? This isn't a small thing, this is a question about what type of community we want to be.


 * As for the iron being hot, it looks like it was only hot because you got it that way. And did so after conferring with the guy that you regularly indicate does not have full say over the wiki because we're a community and we discuss these sorts of changes. I am not impressed with the "well, we already started and if we back out now it will flop" argument. If you can't justify adding this and not PF (or FantasyCraft, or True20, or whatever) and you also don't want those other ones in, then I'm not interested in doing it. - Tarkisflux Talk 02:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * As an advocate for Pathfinder, I'd been a bit curious about the recent changes. The issue of "if Legend why not Pathfinder" is real since, well, I'd vouch for it.  I haven't though because of the combined efforts of hateboners by certain people, and the fact that honestly most 3.5e homebrew I make is easy to convert to Pathfinder on the fly.  Slap on some CMB/CMDs and we're off.  Anyway, no comment on legend itself, but letting you know I'm here, and currently siding with Tarkis until I see reason for exception. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:27, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I believe we do have pathfinder homebrew, it just not marked as such. Converting 3.5e stuff to Pathfinder is relatively easy. Personally I do not see why we should not include other systems like Legend and other popular alternatives. Of course if we have an interested author base (which I believe we do for Legend). --Leziad (talk) 02:30, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not opposed to opening the flood gates per se. I don't think the wiki needs new blood so much as a new game, because 3.x is past tense and is not a growing community. And since I don't have a lot of hope for DnDNext being that game, I'm not opposed to PF and Legend and other content being on here. But I am pretty opposed to having the long standing wiki policy where we tell people to convert their articles to a version of DnD overturned because 1 member found a system they really liked and 1 admin said it was fine. That's not how we do policy shifts, and starting it that way still irks me. Not so much that I will torpedo it out of spite, though the thought crossed my mind, but enough that I would slap wrists for it and give people stern looks. On the internet.


 * So, to be clear, I want to open us up to Legend and PF content at a minimum, with more as requested and justified. And I will update policies as necessary to support that, and assist them in getting a shiny navigations, and whatever else they need. I will also go and sell us to the Legend people who have their doubts and some misunderstandings about our setup. And I want their stuff added to the canon section, and their books added to the publication section, and so on. But I also want these changes discussed and approved by the wiki before they happen. We won't be a "dnd" wiki anymore and could maybe use some re-branding (bonus, further differentiation from paleo), but whatever. - Tarkisflux Talk 05:06, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers and my apologies if I did. I just thought it was a good idea. Surgo (talk) 06:43, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I too believe it is a good idea. Why not test the ground for other system with Legend? I am all for including Pathfinder, and Legend. --Leziad (talk) 07:09, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Looks like there is indeed promise of a thriving Legend homebrew community cropping up here, so I'm cool with it. Branching out from an increasingly old (if not outdated per se) system would be nice. Let's give Legend a chance here and see where it goes. (Although I would suggest that we hold off on re-branding the site as a whole until a Legend presence is well-established as an enduring thing here.)


 * I really really really don't want to see it turning into another d20 Modern section, though. I'd like it if we could agree that, if it goes stagnant for a span of months, we acknowledge the futility and remove it from the site. A section without active custodians is not a good thing, even if it has some good content. --DanielDraco (talk) 13:47, 13 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I agree DD--I mentioned to the forum admin that I didn't want it to just languish without any contributors, which is why he posted the stickied post there to give some semi-official encouragement for people to cross-post their homebrew here. I didn't think getting Legend on here would cause such a ruckus either... Sorry if I ruffled feathers :-3 --Ghostwheel (talk) 05:08, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Reverting indentation

Moved this discussion to its own project page, since I think it deserves one. As far as hosting PF content, I'm not opposed, except for the amount of work setting it up. As for legend, again, as long as people take care of it, I'm not against it either, as long as we have a community. For the D20 stuff here, I thought that it wasn't moved over personally. Nobody seems to play D20 Modern anymore, and there's no navigation methods to it that I know of...which is an issue. If people post their content here, I can try setting up templates and whatnot that needs to be set up. Again though, I want to see a sizable community (that 6 number mentioned earlier sounds good) that actually wants a Legends wiki section that will succeed. As such, maybe we can try getting some input from these authors? --Havvy (talk) 05:51, 14 October 2012 (UTC)


 * I am not too familiar with Legends, but as for Pathfinder, I would be interested in having Pathfinder material here. If you want, you could also have the PRD (Pathfinder's SRD) here, in the same style of the SRD. While the PRD is similar to the SRD in some ways, in my opinion the differences are notable enough. The Dire Reverend (talk) 06:47, 14 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Does anyone have a problem with adding something linking to the Legend main page on the navbar? Alternatively, if we plan on hosting Pathfinder material as well, maybe we could add to the NavBar "Related Editions Homebrew" or the like where it could link to the Pathfinder and Legend homebrew pages? --Ghostwheel (talk) 08:37, 14 October 2012 (UTC)


 * One experiment at a time, I say. Let's see how building a Legend community goes first. We don't want to spread our reaching-out efforts too thin.


 * But yeah, it does look like we've got a pretty strong consensus that Legend, at least, is worth trying. Let's integrate it into the navigation. --DanielDraco (talk) 16:49, 14 October 2012 (UTC)