Talk:Shadow Magister (3.5e Class)/Mystery List

Mystery Concerns
Level 1
 * Deeper Darkness has a day/level duration. If you want that sort of thing as a 1st level, which I'm not sure is a solid plan with the "already better than darkness Obscuring Mist" in here, it should certainly be a ritual. A 2nd level ritual probably fits better though, and you can give Obscuring Mist the [dark] tag here to make up for it if you want.
 * Entropic Shield doesn't seem very thematic and doesn't grant benefits that Darkness doesn't already, aside from that you don't also grant it to those nearby you. It doesn't seem necessary or useful is what I'm getting at.
 * While I'm mostly down with Cone of Cold being a level 1 thing, I'm less down with it as a whenever you want 1st level thing. The range in particular is out of line for a 1st level effect, as it's basically everyone within charge distance. I'd suggest this instead be a ritual with a reduced range, that you can advance it to all the time with a class feature later. This would also increase the benefit of giving Chill Touch as a fallback.
 * Skull Bomb and Silent Image should probably be rituals.
 * Mage armor, if not a ritual, should probably be self only.
 * Protection from Arrows also should be self only if not a ritual.
 * Having both Ray of Enfeeblement and Exhaustion seems redundant. I'd drop one.
 * Strangely, I'm pretty ok with Spider Climb being a recitation rather than a ritual.

Level 2
 * I'm not sure if Blindness works as a recital here, if only because of the permanency.
 * If Obscuring Mist gets the [dark] tag, so should Fog Cloud.
 * Minor Image should be a ritual.

I could go on, but I think that's enough to discuss for now and should be enough that it's clear where I think things should head. - Tarkisflux Talk 21:28, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I actually don't disagree with most of this. The only real gripes are as follows:


 * I wanna retain the idea that you can generate genuine darkness at 1st level. I'm totally fine with writing a version of deeper darkness with a more sane duration, and ritualizing it, but I want that to stay.
 * CoC does shit for damage. I actually don't consider the area that it has to be a meaningful indicator of its power. If you think it should be ritualized, I'm fine with it, but then I'd like to chuck in Polar Ray as an at-will fallback. Thoughts?
 * I'd probably retain RoEx instead of RoEn.
 * Spider climb as a ritual grants a climb speed to your whole party, pretty much all the time. Are you sure you're OK with this being a recital and mage armour not?
 * The obscuring mist/fog cloud thing - sure, I can deal.


 * - MisterSinister 21:57, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Deeper Darkness still isn't genuine darkness, just a bigger longer lasting 3.5e shadowy darkness effect. It's mechanically worse than obscuring mist + [dark] tag at representing real darkness, even if it does so in a larger area for a longer time. Actual black as night darkness doesn't happen until until your True Darkness at 4th. If you just want them to be able to make areas that don't get more light than shadow even at high noon for a day, then it's fine as a ritual.


 * CoC doing shit for damage isn't the problem. It's CoC doing shit for damage to an area every other round. AoE attacks on that time scale are not intended at 1st level, at least not in any version of the game I'm familiar with. Ritualizing it fixes the frequency problem, and limiting to 40' range (still somewhat better than fireball area, to compensate for the short range of it) fixes the number of targets concern.


 * I am totally for Polar Ray as a 1st level recital addition.


 * Spider Climb as a recital means that when you need to climb something, your party gets to come along. It invalidates a skill that... wait, this is ToP compliant. Yeah... I retract. Ritual it probably should be.


 * Did you want me to go through the rest of the levels? - Tarkisflux Talk 22:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * OK, that addresses my concerns adequately about this stuff. Implementing a small change to what I've already done. And yeah, you going through the other levels would be very helpful, thanks. I'll give you a contributor credit. - MisterSinister 22:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Onward then.

Level 3
 * Major Image, like its lesser brethren, should be a ritual.
 * Prying Eyes has a duration of hours, and should be a ritual.

Level 4
 * Everything here except Enervation should probably be a ritual. That one gets a pass because it's basically a stacking, slightly nastier version of Ray of Exhaustion that could kill you eventually, but could be completely cured by a 4th level spell available at the same time.

Level 5
 * Cloudkill and Persistent Image should be rituals.
 * Power Word Blind is probably fine as a recital, but the hp limit may as well go. It's not permanent blindness for most creatures at that level, but it is no-save blindness (that can be countered).

Level 6
 * Anti-Life Shell, Greater Scrying, and Programmed Image should be rituals.
 * I'm not sure if Degenerate should be a ritual or not. It's probably fine though.

Level 7
 * Power Word Kill should be a ritual. It's a worse debuff than blindness, since True Res is still to come.
 * Weird should be a ritual.

Level 8 - is fine.

Level 9
 * Shadows of the Mage Lords should probably be a ritual. If it's a True9, it's not a good idea to let it get cast every other round.
 * Wail of the banshee should probably be a ritual as well. There's no Mass True Res to counter it.

Also, yay contributor credits! - Tarkisflux Talk 22:41, 28 June 2012 (UTC)


 * And done. - MisterSinister 22:49, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Mystery Suggestions

 * Screen

More as I think of them. - Tarkisflux Talk 22:59, 1 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Added as a ritual. - MisterSinister 23:15, 1 July 2012 (UTC)