Talk:Gigas (3.5e Race)

LA 0 and large
My attempt at making one, I know it can be done, but because large carries such benefits, one must tread carefully. At the moment, stats are -2 overall, but if it is sdeemed too weak, then I will remove the Int penalty. What say? -- Eiji Hyrule 00:26, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd remove the Wis penalty if you had to but this seems pretty good as-is except maybe the speed being 20 for a large race.--Stryker-Fyre 02:30, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * (As a clarification for the above, for new people, I changed the Int to a Wis penalty after pointing out that being natural McGuyvers meshed better with high Int than high Wis). Aye, both are messures to balance out large size, as Large is almost always an instant LA 1.  Out of possible downsides, dwarf speed mechanics seemed best.  The -Wis is mostly just balance, but the most understandable balancer (the Int vs Wis arguement above). -- Eiji Hyrule 04:43, April 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * After the discussion here, how is this still justified as being at 0 LA and 0 HD? --Ghostwheel 21:31, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * It should be weaker (and thus more balanced). Go into more detail on debatenessity.  That applies to others too. -- Eiji-kun 21:43, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Alright, I'll weigh in, since I know Eiji is bored at work. I'll try to keep this short in comparison to my last dissection of LA 0 Large. Ignoring flavor and going straight for Racial Traits, bam, that +4 ability score modifier (in this case, Strength) again. So, sure he's large, and gets to use large weapons, but does he (the race is now a single guy for this discussion) really need that +4? Not really, no. The first +2 Strength makes up for the "to hit" penalty caused by his increased size, also granting a damage bonus in the process. He also gets that extra damage from larger weapon size, and while I'm still talking about ability score modifiers, there is the reach to mention as well. That reach is just a dick for balance. Anyhow, +2 is fine. If you want more, do a Racial Paragon (keeping it to only 2 levels if you really want to make it quick) to grant that extra +2 in power as part of the class's features. An overall ability score penalty is fine, since these guys get beef from other places and will likely let the schemers and the talkers do their scheming and talking.
 * Dwarfy speed is good, and with the low Dexterity and initiative penalty, it forces some thought to be put into tactics and character creation for achieving awesomeness (which players should do for their characters anyways, after all, these are supposed to be people fighting in life or death situations on an active basis. Not taking your weaknesses into account is about as foolish as forgetting your sword back at the hotel). That was a heck of a parenthetical note. Moving along.
 * Everything else is fine and tasty... so on to reach. I really hate trying to adjudicate reach. There's lots of stuff that can turn reach into a magic bullet (replace magic bullet with "reliably tactically sound", since I know people read too much into flourishes like that on the internet) for many situations, but I also can't ignore that reach exists. You could sorta kinda gimp it a bit, with something like "when attacking creatures with a melee weapon within his reach but not adjacent, he takes a -X penalty to attack rolls" giving players the option to take full advantage of the reach at the cost of accuracy, because they're slow or something or however you want to explain it. Perhaps they suffer from an inner-ear disorder bred in from generations of breeding within their limited populations... not that you want a race of giant hillbillies... but it's something, and this comment is at least a start. --Ganteka Future 03:41, 20 February 2011 (UTC)


 * I have decided to drop the Str to +2, I agree. However, I have troubles over the reach, rather, I want to keep it.  Of course, reach IS good.  Before I think more about that, what major reach related issues are there?  I'm thinking AoOs, which make sense, though I figure the Dex penalty nerfs the optimization of AoOs by making Combat Reflexes ineffective.  Anyway, awaiting those thoughts. -- Eiji-kun 11:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)