Talk:Living Dead (3.5e Template)

Level Adjustment
This increases the creature's HD by 4 and LA by 4, for a total ECL boost of +8, but only gives +3 CR. Is it really 5 levels stronger in the hands of a player than in the hands of a DM? --Foxwarrior (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Probably not. I will examine the figures when the template is fully complete and then see what it should end up with. The added HD serve mainly as a hit point boost and guard against turning and other HD dependent effects. The numbers as they stand here are not final, at any rate. Though, I have always been a proponent of using HD instead of LA. In the end, the LA may be waived completely. I'm willing to listen to any suggestions, though. --Sulacu (talk) 21:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * It's not that straightforward Fox, because of the annoying improving creature rules. The 4 hit dice are only worth +1 CR on a humanoid, and +4/3 CR on a monstrous humanoid (per those annoying rules). Add on the additional +3 CR, and you get to +4 LA for a character. Which sort of works if you don't double count the HD for ECL nonsense.


 * I have no idea if this is worth 4 character levels or not though, haven't looked through it that closely. - Tarkisflux Talk 21:34, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought that the CR adjustment of a template was supposed to override the CR adjustment for normal advancement, Tarkisflux. Also, counting the HD for ECL is the default rule.
 * Sulacu: I'd be willing to believe that the Living Dead is some number of levels stronger in the hands of a PC, because the Dead minions don't count towards your character level but they presumably do count towards Encounter Level. Can a level 1 Bard Living Dead (ECL 9, HD 5, CHA 18) really control a Reaving Dead and a Restless Dead? That would certainly be strong enough, actually. At Bard 12 (ECL 20, HD 16, CHA 32), that's only 4 Reaving Dead, which isn't anything to remark on and certainly isn't enough to make the character worth its ECL 20. --Foxwarrior (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, and if you decide to make a Dead that's CR 20 and has 21 HD (following the pattern), then a Living Dead PC with only 10 CHA becomes overpowered at 11 HD (ECL 15). --Foxwarrior (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I know counting them on top of LA is the rule for determining ECL, but I was willing to ignore it temporarily to make the numbers sort of make sense. And I don't remember if the CR adjustment is supposed to override or add to normal HD advancement honestly. Templates are weird.


 * You know what, my comments here are not helpful. Let's just ignore them all. - Tarkisflux Talk 00:40, 8 December 2012 (UTC)