Talk:Puppeteer (3.5e Class)

This class is both unbalanced and highly idiotic. Why on earth would you make this. "No doscernable reason" is bull**** it is only long enough for a prestige class at best, and even then isnt a very good one.


 * Do you have any specific criticisms or are you just here to shit on the author's work anonymously? --68.187.81.126 14:36, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Not the OP, but I'm all in favor of shitting on much of this author's work. I have a strong dislike for and disagree with many of his game design principles. --Ghostwheel (talk) 15:06, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Ghostwheel there a difference between shitting on work for no discernible reason and valid criticism, the former shouldn't be condoned and the later is needed to maintain quality control. --Leziad (talk) 18:03, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Is there a way to rate an edit, because I want to favor LD's. --Undead_Knave (talk) 18:51, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * If I didn't have reasons I wouldn't say that I disagreed with his design principles. If you disagree with the original post, then get the anon to add something. That said, he hasn't rated it, so it's not like anyone's going to do much. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:53, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I am just saying that meaningless hate comment like 'this class sux, it too short and it bad' are completely useless and don't contribute to anything and should not be endorsed or encouraged. If you feel like all Tome is shit or something you can always write a wikiblog or something. No need to shit on the talk page. --Leziad (talk) 19:11, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, I don't believe that differing game design principles are really a good reason for shitting on someone's work and/or downrating it, whatever. It's STILL better than anonymous shitposting, though. --68.187.81.126 05:40, 29 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, I think you're completely, utterly, and entirely wrong, and that it is entirely legitamite to downrate an article because you think it brings toxicity, anti-fun, and removes fun gameplay and/or counterplay from the game. Good thing neither of our opinions matter in this case, amirite? --Ghostwheel (talk) 09:31, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Bad design and alternate design philosophy I consider two different things. Nevermind that fun is pretty much entirely subjective, but that's neither here nor there. I welcome you to share your thoughts on why this class is bad, atleast so that this talk page has something worthwhile on it. --68.187.81.126 18:44, 29 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm actually curious what Ghost considers inappropriate about this article. It's even pegged at H rather than VH, so it's the sort of thing he would normally object to if there were objections to be made.


 * Since constructive comments were requested I'll drop a few, as there are a few holes in the design here that warrant discussion. I know from elsewhere that this was not a refined or particularly finished class, but sort of a "here's what I think an electric mage to complement the fire mage would look like" sort of affair that took maybe 15 minutes and wasn't later edited. And I think it shows in some of the ability writeups...
 * Jolt is kind of a joke. A standard action for 1d6 when you could attack action ranged electric bolts for d6/level? And jolt grants a save, even if you use it as a touch attack? It's sort of a mediocre pre-combat buff against touch attacks, but even then it's only passably good at level 1 not that great after.
 * Electric Bolts should specify whether you can use them with two- or multi- weapon progressions. That makes a big difference given they're already touch attacks.
 * Puppet the Dead has no activation action. It is also written in a weird way. The zombie can't have more hit dice than 4x puppeteer level, which seemingly puts a limit on the target as having no more than 2x puppeteer level in hd... but figuring that out was annoying and I don't know if they can just elect to no grant them their maximum zombie hd.
 * Repair Construct similarly lacks an activation action.
 * Corpse Quickening updates part of the zombie template, but it could be more clearly written.
 * The fluff on Magnetism could be better written. There is a discernable reason after all, just not one that is generally accessible to medieval natural philosophers who are busy researching magic. TK isn't that amazing though, and metal TK just means you carry around iron bars that you throw at people when you try to pint them against a wall. And as an Sp power Iron Golems are immune to it, which seems like a shame.
 * And there you go. I'll leave the "too good for H" comments to Ghostwheel, as I don't feel like comparing it to the fire mage more closely atm. - Tarkisflux Talk 19:35, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Tarkis. That's exactly what I wanted! --68.187.81.126 21:23, 29 April 2014 (UTC)


 * I never was a fan of puppeteer myself, in fact I don't like it. I just don't get wanting people to 'shit on an article' because of a difference between design philosophy. It just seem untasteful to me. --Leziad (talk) 23:04, 29 April 2014 (UTC)