Talk:Some Spontaneity to Wizards (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings
== Summary ==

In short, this lets wizards prepare spells in one round rather than 15 minutes? That opens up TONS of versatility for utility spells. You say that the intent wasn't to make wizards more powerful, but in short it does, by leaps and bounds (especially at higher levels). --Ghostwheel 10:05, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please, can you be a little less short? Most fight last at most 4 rounds, why losing a whole round is not enough? Outside fights one whole round and 15 minutes makes no real difference. Ezzetabi 10:30, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * When the scout comes back and tells you that he's got a pack of incorps crawling up his bum behind him and they're going to get there in 5-10 seconds, there's a big difference between one round and 15 minutes. That's just one example, I'm sure I could come up with a number more if you like. Add in all the scouting abilities (like Arcane Eye) that the wizard can get. --Ghostwheel 10:40, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sounds reasonable, I changed the time to one minute. I think it is still interesting because you can use otherwise-used slots; and if you have 10 rounds of preparation time it still fair. Another possibility is keeping the full-round action to ready to book, but also making the casting time increased as using a Metamagic feat and/or decrease the caster level. Ezzetabi 10:52, May 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Why not create a list of non-combat spells that can be cast without expending a spell slot? Effectively, five minute cast at will abilities.--Tavis McCricket 01:04, May 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Because then you would have to define "non-combat spells". Especially for people like me. I like to say there is no such thing as a non-combat spell; those who say there are just aren't creative enough. With a fifteen minute cast time, That sharply limits how I can use spells to alter the field. This variation lets what I can do with an hours preparation happen in four minutes. As cool as that would be, it would be too easy to own the world.Teh Storm 20:51, May 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * (off the top of my head) Knock is a non combat spell. (leomonds) tiny hut is a non combat spell. Regeneration (the regrow a limb spell). Reincarnate, detect traps, create water (they specifically have stated no making water in people),mage hand, genesis, zone of truth, restoration, commune, true resurrection are non combat spells. Granted 1 or 2 you may be able to do "something" with in combat (like throw a cloak over an unseen servant to make them look like a target, or set a trap behind a door and use knock) some others theoretically could be used (albeit not very effectively) in combat. like create food/heroes feast "i make a pie and throw it at them" --NameViolation 08:38, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * That was all I was talking about: doing something to tip the scale in your favor, Like using knock to negate a hold portal spell, or casting leomunds tiny hut to have an instant well supplied fortress. My favorite example is depilatory, a spell that lets you selectively shave hair for one hour. Use that on a polar bear, and suddenly it has to make the same saves against it's native environment that you do. Oh, and my other favorite: zone of truth. Cast and ask for the easiest way to defeat your target. It has to tell you. And NEVER call a divination or healing spell non combat, because that just screams "we don't heal our selves or gather intelligence on what we are doing." The only combats I have been involved in that didn't use intelligence gathering were being on the wrong end of an ambush.Teh Storm 21:24, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * "they may avoid answering questions"-zone of truth. FAIL. Never herd of the hair fall out one. sounds way monty hall-ish to me. but not ALL spell have a combat use, or at least one worth wasting a spell doing. if your casting true res, you a) have failed in combat, or b) have 10 rounds of combat that you are free to do nothing but cast uninterrupted. now if you have 10 rounds of combat free to bring the dead back to life with 9th level spells, we're playing 2 totally different things, because the ones I play enemies would have teleported up to you, killed you, blown up the building, had its way with your women, had a smoke, and defiled your corpse in the 10 rounds you spent casting.--NameViolation 22:26, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry you pointed out true resurrection. I really am. I thought I was dealing with a strategist. Even without the 15+ ranks in concentration that any half-way intelligent spell caster would have, if you have a decent group that can half-ass a defensive battle, 10 rounds is nothing. Hell, the 100 round sending spell would be more of a challenge.Teh Storm 22:47, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * yet everything you've said on this wiki boils down to "neener neener I'm right" when you're really not. IDK how good of a caster you are, there are things like being damaged during a spell, grapples, disspell, counter-spell, quicken teleports, disentigrate the ground under you, ect. Theres not a thing you can do that makes you 100% invulnerable for the 10 rounds (extreme munchkinism and bad DMing aside). Thee is nthing you can throw at the world that is uncounterable. and if there is its the only tactic you end up fighting against, because once people find the unstoppable move it becomes the only move.--NameViolation 23:04, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * You're right. Everything in nature has an opposite an equally powerful counter. Anyone who has played an Illusionist in a giant ant hill or had a flying character trapped in a tornado knows what I mean. Even the best assembled team of adventurers will always be blind sighted. Only not being trapped in a box can help. If in your mind you are thinking "that won't work", you will die, horribly and painfully, in all but the most munchkiny of games. I refuse to be trapped in a box. If my party needs back up, I tell the wizard to start that 100 round spell and I cover his ass. A lot of things might go wrong, but since when should that ever stop any gamer? In D&D, we played the fucked-up psychopaths who not only think it is okay to kill people in their homes because they have green skin, the insane people who think they can take down a fire breathing spell caster the size of the worlds tallest towers, the nut jobs that go to alternate realities to battle nightmare creatures just to go up to the baddest of them all and say "FUCK YOU, SATAN!!!" That is who we represent. Now before you make another post, I want everyone who reads this to ask themselves, "Do my campaigns fit in a box?" Just say yes or no before you post.Teh Storm 23:24, May 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * now your talkin sense! also for the record, I have done reincarnate in combat (all 100 rounds, worst gameday ever)--NameViolation 00:46, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've heard of a cleric casting "Create water" to temporarily outline a invisible creature (just long enough for glitterdust later that round from the wizard), or even to slow down a charging vampire (Yay running water!). A truly clever caster can think of ways to make almost any spell useful in combat. That said, I don't imagine anything with a casting time longer than 5 rounds is going to happen more than once per year (of human sessions). --The Badger 00:19, May 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * My favorite use of create water is creating water over a fire elemental. Not to bad for stopping forest fires before they start, either...Teh Storm 01:38, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

I like how the entire point of what I said was missed. I never said "make all non-combat spells take forever to cast" (which is ironic, because I was basically insulted for saying just that). I said "why not create a list of non-combat spells that can be cast without expending a spell slot? Effectively, five minute cast at will abilities." This doesn't remove them from any list that allows them to be cast as a standard action, provided they are prepared ahead of time.

Yes, any spell can be used in a combat scenario. Not arguing that, never argued that, stop arguing that.--Tavis McCricket 19:26, May 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm going to kill the circle right here, because this again leads back to defining non combat spells. I personally don't want to go through all the forty D&D books trying to balance and pick "non-combat spells". Not to mention some are already made with that design, like sending and true resurrection mentioned above. And I think that adding fifteen minutes to true res to save a spell slot is already powerful enough.Teh Storm 20:48, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Spell List
If you think prepared spellcasters are too restricted, there is an option presented in one of the side bars in Unearthed Arcana. Quite simply, you prepare a number of spells equal to the amount you can prepare per day, and when casting you choose from this list. This also prevent other stupidities that the prepared must do, like clerics being forced to fill their prepared spells with cures or wizards filling their third level spell slots with fireball.Teh Storm 23:45, May 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good aligned clerics can spontaneously cast cure spells, as can neutral aligned clerics that choose to do so. Also, I scribe or buy scrolls of fireball.  Consumables ftw.--Tavis McCricket 05:57, May 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Excellent points, but I still think it is stupid that prepared spellcasters have to memorize a spell over and over again just to use it more than once, and the only other cure, a point based system, seems to just fail in D&D.Teh Storm 18:02, May 17, 2010 (UTC)