Talk:Jitterbug (3.5e Maneuver)

I suspect this might be too low
Action economy is the most valuable thing in the game. Though it costs a move action, two standard actions is a big thing, and you can do so much with it. Spellcasting comes to mind, but it's useful even for the martial adapt. In any case, it's not worth a 4th. 3.0 Haste, which granted an extra standard, I've often been told would make a fine 8th level spell due to its action economy rape that such a thing causes. Consider 7th to 8th level instead. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 06:25, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


 * ...Not the first time I've heard this. I was planning on the 8th-level version granting two standard actions or four swift actions. --Luigifan18 (talk) 06:29, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Regardless of how many times it has been brought up, it remains true. A standard action is the most valuable thing in the game. It is the core limitation off of which the entire game is built. Fiddling with that limitation is a good way to fuck up Every. Single. Aspect. of game balance. --DanielDraco (talk) 06:41, 24 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It has always bugged me a bit that you can take two move actions or a move and standard action, but not two standard actions... I guess a move action is 2.5 seconds and a standard action is 3.5, but if you're taking two move actions or a standard action without moving, where does the extra time go...? --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:24, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Putting numbers to it is a bit of a questionable art. Particularly because making it more concrete makes it even more confusing that my first action occurs before your action, even though they are temporally simultaneous. It's best to be content leaving the abstraction as an abstraction; in just the same way that full HP denotes perfect health and negative HP denotes bleeding out but we do not define HP further as ounces of blood, so do we say that one round denotes 6 seconds without allowing each action thereof to designate a specific interval. It is far more accurate to say that an action is a renewing resource conceptually related to time than to say that it actually is time. --DanielDraco (talk) 02:48, 26 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I like to think that a standard action can be considered to take a full 6 seconds of concentration to perform, but some of that time can also be spent doing something less intense. This model unfortunately runs into a bit of trouble when on one turn you take a move action then a standard, and on the next turn you take a standard to do the same sort of thing and then take your move. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:00, 26 November 2012 (UTC)