Talk:Eldritch Horror Paragon, Insidious Parasite Path (3.5e Racial Paragon Class)

Why are there not any sleep inducing abilities in this class? --Franken Kesey (talk) 17:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Ride, as a class skill, would appear more like the flavor and feature of being inside a creature than balance. Also, could you explain the reasoning behind the hit die?


 * Would love to see more aberrant attributes.--Franken Kesey (talk) 03:28, 30 October 2012 (UTC)


 * With skulldweller, if a victim fails the fort save, can they try again, in say a day’s time? Would the second time also involve a Will save? --Franken Kesey (talk) 17:07, 8 November 2012 (UTC)


 * You're free to get them from some other class. Ride is a good suggestion. No, I can't. Too bad. There's nothing stopping you from trying again every round. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:32, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Would it simplify things if you replaced ghost sound and silent image, with one spell: major image, minus the thermal and olfactory abilities? Also, was suggesting lower hit die, not higher.


 * So, if a character has the poor fortune to get a parasite (from skulldweller) at level one, it sticks with them for life – even if say they become a god at 25th level, or use a wish or miracle? --Franken Kesey (talk) 20:05, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * It would simplify things, yes, but not make them more interesting, really. Hit dice lower than d6 are terrible.


 * If a character has the poor fortune to be eaten by rabid elk at level one, they are denied of the ability to become a god entirely. You can always spam suggestions to "stop possessing this humble peasant" on the poor sod in the hopes of getting the Insidious Parasite to leave, you know. --Foxwarrior (talk) 20:32, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Agreed, yet few goliath beetles have 67.5 HP. And a Parasite is meant to be much smaller than 5” to fit inside a skull. On that note, the size requirement for skulldweller could be increased one more (to three sizes larger).


 * A side question. Does your pest focus more on fleeing or being manipulative?--Franken Kesey (talk) 04:25, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Balance
Phantasmal Killer at level 1? Undead Immunitites without undead vulnerabilities at level 3? Gate (travel) at level 4? Tarrasque style healing at level 6? And people give me shit for making a low-level character with some ability damage. Fluffykittens (talk) 04:04, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * phantasmal killer is probably worse than sleep at the levels where sleep works. Well, a three level investment in something that isn't a full caster should give you something worthwhile. Okay, Gate before Plane Shift came online was stupid. Being unkillable isn't a big deal if people can just tie you up and bury you. --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:04, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * "Being unkillable isn't a big deal if people can just tie you up and bury you." Which would be true, if you didn't get reality burrowing. All abilities: should include EX/SU/SP. Reality Burrowing: should include a clause for what happens if you attempt to move into an area you can't move into. Skulldweller:should make some mention of what a possessed character's stats are. Skinbag: Assumes that your character will be medium or smaller. Should include a clause to deal with what happens to a character enlarged beyond medium who uses this ability. Control the uncontrollable: Due to the permanent nature of the confusion effects this class hands out, should include a saving throw and cost a standard action(because right now, with it and incomprehensible gaze, the result is that you get a gaze attack which permanently enslaves anyone who fails a throw, with no limit on HD total or maximum HD of monster to be controlled), and how/if you can give your thralls orders that don't expire "such as act normally for the rest of your life". Incomprehensible Gaze: should include a "1 saving throw per 24 hours" clause. Tentacular, gaping maw: nerfed due to size decreases Should get stronger as you level up, not weaker. Perhaps you could give some of these abilities tome feat scaling benefits, instead of just numerical increases.Fluffykittens (talk) 05:37, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Reality burrowing is no longer a still spell. None of the stats change with Skulldweller, so I don't see why I should mention them. If you're larger than Medium size, doesn't the wording for Skinbag already imply that you can be any size between your current one and Medium? I don't feel the need for an action cost on Control the Uncontrollable because it's only changing sides from "nobody's side" to "your side", and it's situational enough that you should sometimes get to really enjoy having arranged a good situation for it. Tentacular and Gaping Maw have been moved to be Unspeakable Abomination exclusives.
 * I suspect I get what you are getting at with the tome feat scaling idea: the biggest flaw with this class and its oversized sibling is that VH wants a more exponential growth pattern in terms of utility than the mechanism I have can really provide, so having the attributes change to give more level-appropriate effects requires them to go through some paradigm shifts. However, the tome feat mechanism itself is very inelegant, so I'm not excited by that solution. --Foxwarrior (talk) 07:12, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Very much an improvement over the previous iteration. "I suspect I get what you are getting at with the tome feat scaling idea: the biggest flaw with this class and its oversized sibling is that VH wants a more exponential growth pattern in terms of utility than the mechanism I have can really provide, so having the attributes change to give more level-appropriate effects requires them to go through some paradigm shifts. However, the tome feat mechanism itself is very inelegant, so I'm not excited by that solution." It isn't necessarily exponential- the tome barbarian advances at a pretty linear rate. However, this class is frontloaded with powerful abilities. At the low levels, you're going to grab incomprehensible gaze and control the uncontrollable and turn entire villages to your cause. At medium levels, you'll get useful but not necessary abilities that are roughly equivalent in power to other VH level classes (reality burrowing, skulldweller). At high levels, you're going to be grabbing abilities that wizard already got at lower levels. You need to make it so that the abilities really do get better at higher levels, and that there is a better selection to choose from, so that there isn't a reason to grab whatever abilities you want and than switch out to another class.Fluffykittens (talk) 08:50, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, it is a racial paragon class, so having people grab whatever abilities they want and then switch out to another class wouldn't be too terrible. --Foxwarrior (talk) 18:57, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * So maybe this would be better as a five or ten level class?Fluffykittens (talk) 19:13, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * But what if you want all the abilities? --Foxwarrior (talk) 19:21, 11 November 2012 (UTC)


 * As is, there's little incentive to do so; the abilities range from (gain a gaze attack that can disable and potentially dominate foes) and (become unkillable by hp damage) to (gain a fly speed) and (gain concealment). There has to be some incentive to do more than just frontload, if you want the class to become 20 levels long. It's the same reason that most players who play DND don't take more than 2 levels of monk or 5 levels of paladin.Fluffykittens (talk) 22:16, 11 November 2012 (UTC)