Talk:Law (3.5e Cleric Domain)

Domain Power Suggestion
What about permanent align weapon / natural weapon / energy damage (law)? If that's suitable, could also be done for the other alignment domain powers. - Tarkisflux Talk 05:55, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Another more unique but probably tricky idea would be to deal damage (something small like 1 per caster level) to anyone who successfully saves against a compulsion spell. Could call it Corporal Punishment or something similar. Admittedly, making it a compulsion limits the number of effects here to command and greater command, but still. - TG Cid 06:20, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * I like Cid's idea more, although this would bias the domain for low-level use more than high-level use. I'm not sure if this is a problem or not, though. - MisterSinister 06:33, 18 December 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not :-p. - Tarkisflux Talk 06:39, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Concern
The "Law Domain" is a WOTC Core Player's Handbook Domain, found on page 188. The Domain power was plainly listed - why didn't people just take what the book said? Why reinvent the wheel? ProphetPX 18:32, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Because it was there. -- Eiji-kun 19:01, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * We have the original Law domain reprinted in our SRD section already actually (link). This was redone because the author felt that the original domain was weak and needed an update. It should have had a note pointing back to the SRD version at the top to limit confusion, and one has been added. - Tarkisflux Talk 19:45, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * ProphetPX, your question on a wiki primarily about homebrew content seems both retarded and highly unimaginative. The reason none of us take 'what the book said' and 'reinvent the wheel' is because we are on a wiki primarily dedicated to those things, and also the fact that WotC content is so incredibly bad at its stated job in places, it actually makes me wonder if the line between malice and incompetence is as clear as people believe. However, I'll humour you, and lay out the reasoning for why the original Law domain is an offence to god and man, and needed fixing.


 * The domain power for the Law domain as written is both highly useless and highly insulting. +1 on your caster level for stuff hardly ever matters, except in a few fringe cases (such as dictum and comboing Law summons with the Summoning domain to get decent minion durations at level 1), and it's also a boring and flavourless +1 bonus in a system that is crawling with them.


 * As an aside, +1 bonuses all need to die in a fire. They encourage stupid dumpster-diving, which is the worst feature of the 3.5 system as-written, aren't usually major enough to matter or be remembered on their own, but in sufficient quantities, ear-rape the RNG all the way into the stratosphere. Caster level bonuses are some of the worst, because then, it leads to things like blasphemy abuse (and before you tell me that's not a Law spell, you can just take the appropriate Align Spell feat and make it one). So anything that awards +1s is bad.


 * Now for the spells. Protection from chaos is only ever used to lock out mind-affecting effects and nothing else ever, because the only real chaos-aligned creatures are fucking giant frogs; calm emotions is cute, but not really all that helpful unless you're fighting armies of barbarians or bards; magic circle against chaos - see above where protection from chaos is; order's wrath almost never works well, because chaotic enemies who are not also evil aren't all that common; dispel chaos also suffers from the 'who to use this against' problem; hold monster is very good, but you've been waiting for twelve fucking character levels to get to it; dictum is kinda good, but for a 7, not all that impressive; shield of law is just another iteration of the protection from chaos problem; and summon monster IX has precisely two Lawful creatures on it, and one of them is seriously not worth a 9th level spell slot, while the other is a piece of bullshit that has no business even existing at all.


 * Essentially, the spells are super-niche and useless early against 90% of what you can expect to face, while the higher-level stuff is good, but not really worth waiting for in the long run. Compare this to domains people actually take, like Trickery, to see what I mean.


 * This is why Cid and I saw fit to go through all the domains to rectify them. Because most WotC domains, like most WotC content, sucks a barrel of cocks so large that it probably supplies KFC or Sydney. Or both. - MisterSinister 20:35, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Just a note... Calm Emotions is freaking powerful. Stops people from fighting, just like that. --Ghostwheel 21:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Ghostwheel... I know you hate anything that even resembles a save-or-suck, but try to actually read for once? Especially one line - the part that says " Any aggressive action against or damage dealt to a calmed creature immediately breaks the spell on all calmed creatures.". So no, it isn't 'freaking powerful' - it's nothing like sleep or colour spray. It's just moderately good. The fact that it's also mind-affecting AND requires concentration... yeah, no dice. - MisterSinister 22:18, 21 April 2012 (UTC)