User talk:Dukelzan/Darkblade (3.5e Class)

Ratings
==Tweeking==

Please note that "Tweeking" means I'm done, it just means that I am saying "Oh, this sentence sounds better like this" or "It's clearer when written like this"

"The difference between bravery and stupidity is if the plan works" - Newrok Shadowblade, Saint of Creation in Shadowgate 14:29, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * You really need to differentiate, in the first paragraph, what makes a Darkblade different from a Rogue or Shadowdancer. Then you need to remove any <- and -> that remain in the page, and add in-page links. Surgo 15:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, a spell-checker. You really, really need to use one. Surgo 15:08, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Balance Level
Improved Shadowcall's basically an at-will save-or-die with no limitations on use and it's a ranged touch attack. Very wizard-level IMO. Plus, shadowhealing + maximized Hide or invisibility = free full health. Also rather wizard level I think. This really seems all over the place in terms of the power of individual abilities, and the wording doesn't help clarify matters much, but those two are quite powerful especially given that improved Shadowcall is also based on your roll as well instead of fixed DC. - TG Cid 15:30, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * The reason why I gave Shadowcall a ranged touch attack and a oposing roll was because you first have to be able to "hit" the target, then a force of wills. But now that I think about it, your right. - Dukelzan


 * Hmmm, gonna rate this class but I feel I need to go more in depth, can't be too bad, lesse...


 * Let's see, this is a quasi-range like shadow dude. As a moderate class it seems to do alright, but a few things bug me.  Shadow Affinity is a worthless feature.  If it grew, sure, but just +1 ever?  Some others are just fluff with unnesicary limitations, like Shadowmark.  Arcane Mark is less userful than Detect X, but you see classes like paladin get those right off at will.  The acquisition of darkvision late game is also unusual, as you'd think that would be paramount for a class which takes penalties in light.


 * Then you get Hardened Shadows, which if I'm reading correctly gives you an enhancement bonus to armor (won't stack) which goes away when you move. Wat?  Shadowcall is overtly complex too... Str+Wis/2 to determine poundage, but only after a Will save, and... what?  What?  Just say "you get X pounds" and, if failure is really needed, maybe not a will save so much as a class level check or else it takes longer to retrieve than normal.


 * Shadowjump is another place of weird complexity. 15 + 1/3 distance?  So it's always DC 15 until you reach 3 feet, then it's 16?  But people only move in 5 ft blocks.


 * Wait, this is a fighter level class with easy healing in darkness? Like, real easy.  Shadowstrike was unusual for "fighter" but as a possibly key class ability I could jive with it, and it solves the problem of fighting at range in certain circumstances but this... that's too much.


 * I stand corrected, Shadow Affinity does improve, but +1 is still stupid. Also, Darkvision is worse than I thought, only offering Darkvision 10' at 8th.  Darkvision is given for free to common base classes, it's an aspect of type and obtainable via low, low, low level spells, with 60 ft. at least, if not more.  It's not worth 8th.


 * Shadowblow is... oh god. Oh god.  It's a save (Fort?  Reflex?  Will?  And save negates?  Half?  Partial?  Sandwich?) or they take your DAMAGE in ability drain or negative levels.




 * I QUIT! -- Eiji-kun 04:28, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

IMO?
I'm a little confused by "IMO" could you clarify that abbreviation? I've alo never hear of the spell "Hide" (the way your using it) or can you use meatamagic feat with skills in a varient rule I haven't seen?

"The difference between bravery and stupidity is if the plan works" - Newrok Shadowblade, Saint of Creation in Shadowgate 20:17, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * In my opinion. Maybe. -- Jota 20:20, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was referring to the skill, but I meant if you took the maximum amount of ranks possible in that skill. - TG Cid 20:23, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Another Issue
What on earth is "all three ACs"? Surgo 20:27, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * I just changed that. What I meant was Basic armor class, touch armor class, and flat-footed armor class. -Dukelzan

Done?
Okay, I THINK I'm done. Please look it over and give me the heads up.

"The difference between bravery and stupidity is if the plan works" - Newrok Shadowblade, Saint of Creation in Shadowgate 20:39, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * None of the class features say what type they are -- (Sp), (Ex), or (Su). Surely some of them should have a type.


 * At the end of "Hardened Shadows" there is this: "16, part of an indigenous race, home was uprooted by invaders ". Not sure what that's about.


 * Hardened Shadows -- no duration listed.


 * Shadow Domain -- this is very confusing. Do they get the spell slots of a sorcerer of that level, or what? Explain this better.


 * Shadowjump -- "The Darkblade gains a bonus equal to his Darkblade level ". Bonus to what?


 * Shadowhealing -- what type of action is this. How much regeneration and how is it bypassed?


 * Shadowblow -- I have no idea what this is supposed to do; this ability makes no sense.


 * Improved Shadowcall -- what is the "spontaneous conversion" rule?


 * Aside from all this, you need more spellchecking. I want you to actually read through every last word you wrote. Read it out loud. If you do this, it will be pretty clear what doesn't make any sense or where the bad grammar is. Surgo 20:47, August 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, I fixed the errors that you pointed out. I may have labeled the powers a little off, but that was because I thought the powers are from a source of extraordinary power. I believe I caught most of the grammar errors too. Pleas look again. Please and thank you. Sorry about the “16, part of an indigenous race, home was uprooted by invaders” thing. I was checking spelling on a word document I had already used. - Dukelzan

Grammar=/=Function
"By sacrificing a move action, the Darkblade may cause the shadows around him to harden as if armor. This gives him a bonus to his basic and flat-footed Armor Class. At level 10 it goes up to +2, level 15 it is a +3, and level 20 the bonus is +5. This bonus lasts until the Darkblade decides to use another move action, loses the shadowy illumination, or no longer wishes to power to be active."

I'll use this entry as an example. To fix this requires both updates of the grammar and function. Firstly, one cannot sacrafice a move action (no such function exists). It should say "Activating this ability counts as a standard action". Secondly, there is no such thing as "basic AC". If you want this AC bonus to apply while flat-footed and against touch attacks (which is how I interpretted "basic AC"), it should be a deflection or profane bonus. If it's simply a bonus to AC (with emphasis on retention while flat-footed) it's a plain old enhancement bonus to AC.

"At 5th level, the Darkblade is intuned with shadows enough that he may start casting spells from the shadow domain as if he was a Favoered Soul (see Complete Devine, pages 7 and 8) of 4 levels lower then his Darkblade level. However, the spells can ONLY be from cleric's shadow domain. See [1] page 87 for spells. This power works as if the Darkblade had picked up levels in Favoered Soul."

For starters, Favored Souls can't access the Shadow Domain. Also, are we casting spontaneously as a Favored Soul? Or are we using Wisdom for DCs and Chariams for bonus spells? This entry is horrbily vague. Why not simply add in a spell progression to eliminate confusion?

I can understand that you have a clear(ish) idea of what you want the class to do, you simply lack the knowledge of the game rules and mechanics to put it into proper words. This is fine. You should be asking people to assist you with bringing your class in line with the rules, rather than trying to make up rules to suit your needs as you go. Right now you only want help with grammar and spelling (and honestly, you have no excuse on the spelling), but you need much more help than that.--Tavis McCricket 23:04, August 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I see your point on the first example with the "Activating this ability counts as a standard action", and I'll fix this as soon as I get a chance. But what I mean by "Basic AC" is when you’re not flat-footed and the attack isn't a touch attack. I've always called this AC "basic" so I have no other way to describe it. If you do, please feel free to edit it. As for the second example, I originally had it as sorcerer, but changed it to Favored Soul so that it had a more "clericish" feel, even though the Darkblade, doesn’t need a deity to cast spells. My biggest problem is that with my game-group, we never tried to make a class, except for me and the GM was so anal that it was a simple “No” every time I brought the subject up, so I am having trouble with it. As for spelling, I’ve always sucked at it but I am using a spell checker and doing the best I can for it and sometimes I just don’t catch the type-o’s. - Dukelzan


 * There is Armor Class, Touch Armor Class, and Flat-Footed Armor Class. Simply those three.  AC is the sum of all bonuses, including but not limited to size bonuses, armor bonuses, shield bonuses, dodge bonuses, insight bonuses, deflection bonuses, natural armor bonuses, divine and profane bonuses.  We seperate them because not all of them stack, and few stack with themselves.  For starters, deflection bonuses don't stack with each other, but dodge bonuses do.  Touch AC is your base AC (10) plus your size, dodge, and deflection bonuses.  Flat-footed AC is everything excpe dodge.


 * When creating a spell/power/skill/ability that grants an AC bonus of any kind, you must define what kind of bonus it is. Must, must, must.  If I had to guess, based on your expanded explanation, I'd say you are looking at a simple enhancement to the armor bonus (like magic armor gets).  That being said, it could still be a handful of things other things...


 * As for Favored Souls, you simply picked them because they are divine casters? I can see how that fits thematically, but functionally you have yet to define how you want the class to work.  Ignore fluff and flavor, just figure out how it's going to do what you want it to do.  Again, I suggest simply giving it it's own spell progression.--Tavis McCricket 18:22, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Wizard-level? Really?
This hardly seems fighter-level in terms of power. It has literally nothing to do for the first maybe five levels. This thing needs a big boost with way more distinctive abilities.


 * Could you be more specific? I get the basic idea, but you start by saying its wizard power then say it isn't really a fighter class. -Dukelzan


 * Nah, he means that it seems not even competitive with a fighter. Lots of changes have been made since this was initially given the Wizard balance point. Improved Shadowcall, which was initially a save or die, is now pretty pathetic in comparison. Fighter is probably its power level now. Why all the crazy changes? - TG Cid 02:08, 2 February 2011 (UTC)


 * The reason why I made so many changes was an admin (don't remember who exactly) was saying that it was an extreme power (at least for the level). Some changes also were made because I felt that they were to strong. Keep in mind, 10D6 still hurts and fireball has been doing 10D6 damage for three levels (D6/level [maxing at 10d6 at level 10], you get Improved Shadowcall at level 13). If I remember right (I just woke up), someone said its powers made it more of a wizard-like class. I personally feel it more fighter like. I'll change it back to fighter. To make sure I have it clear, that would at least help take it off of the winter cleaning list right? - Dukelzan

A few points
This is a nice, flavorful class, but it still needs a lot of work. Here's some of my thoughts:


 * It seems like at 20th level it would be mechanically more straightforward to just have the Darkblade gain the Outsider Type.
 * I believe that unless stated otherwise,  abilities are standard actions, but you may want to specify whether Shadowmark, Shadowrepel and Shadowcall are standard, move, swift, etc.- equivalent actions. Additionally, It would be nice if the Shadowcall ability scaled with the class. Perhaps 1/2 his levels in Darkblade + (Wis mod+Str Mod/2) instead?
 * Wording on "Weakness to Sunlight" is too vague. What do you mean by "cannot manifest his full powers"? What powers are available to him and what are not?
 * Why use Sorcerer as your casting-equivalent class when the Darkblade is casting cleric domain spells? Cleric would seems a much better thematic choice, especially since Wisdom is a primary stat for the Darkblade. Additionally, with a sorcerer one assumes that spell failure from armor would be a problem, whereas divine casting wouldn't have the same problem.
 * Granting Darkvision at such a late level seems odd for a class built around the idea of being mostly taken by Drow fighters. You might add something where if the character already possesses darkvision, the range instead increases by x feet. I'd move Darkvision to level 2 or so, and then at 8th give the ability to see in magical darkness as well.
 * The Ex-Darkblade section contributes nothing to the class. Unnecessary fluff, I'd ditch it.

-- Spanambula 21:16, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Frist I'd like to thank you for your input. Second I have recently begun working on an actual Darkblade spell list which contains some cleric and wizard spells I hope to have these fine-tuned and working here soon. I see your point to weakness to sunlight and will fix this soon. While I see your point with Darkvision, I feel it is better to keep it here. But I also say that if you want to use the class in your game, feel free to change it. I also agree with the Shadowcall scaling, thank you again. I agree with you when it comes to the Ex-Darkblade section, but I was told I needed it. - Dukelzan 17:21, 23 June 2011


 * Sorry about the delay, but I FINALLY got the Darkblade's spell list up and running. It even has it's own spells per day part of the class info table! Feed back would be lovely with it. - Dukelzan 13:40 23 August 2011