Talk:Just As Planned (3.5e Skill Trick)

Ratings

	Enigma likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	I think it reads much smoother now, and I think it sounds fun.

I feared as much. Suggestions? I'd really like to get this right. -SecondDeath777 18:43, 2 February 2018

As a matter of fact, I extend an invitation to not only you, but anyone who sees this to leave suggestions on this discussion page, or even edit the main page if you think you can make the post easier to consume and utilize, but please take care not to remove features, or warp them far beyond their original purpose unless either A) First suggested and approved, or B) You're Eiji. I will attend to any suggestions at first notice, and patch them in accordingly, so don't feel any pressure to edit the article if you don't want to, but if you think it will help, don't hesitate, either. I hope I can receive enough feedback and support to make this piece usable, less intimidating, and fun for the community. Until then, feel free to spread this page(especially the discussion page) far and wide, so that we can be sure nobody who would be interested is left out of the project. Let's do this thing, my dudes. - SecondDeath777 02:06, 3 February 2018

Okay moved things around and broke up large walls of text to make it easier to read. About Prerequisites, why character level 12 when you have a separate requirement of 16 ranks in sensemotive and spot (16 ranks = character level 13) and so is redundant. Grog toad (talk) 09:15, 3 February 2018 (MST)

A miscalculation. Hold please. -SecondDeath777 03:03, 4 February 2018

Excellent work, by the by. I'll add you to co-authors. If you'd rather not be added, feel free to delete that line. -SecondDeath777 03:08, 4 February 2018

Sorry I didn't see your request, odd I thought I was following the page. I would have given any advice I could but I think it is much easier to understand now Enigma (talk) 01:58, 4 February 2018 (MST)

Good to know. I think I'll keep suggestions open, though. It'd be interesting to see if people can evolve this concept. Thanks for the criticism, and thanks a million to Grog toad for his work condensing the piece. -SecondDeath777 05:54, 4 February 2018

Wait, what?!?

Oh God, this is my Ukemi project all over again. This is way too versatile and complicated to be a skill trick! --Luigifan18 (talk) 13:02, 4 February 2018 (MST)

In fairness, the Prerequisites are pretty extreme, and limiting it to certain classes didn't seem right, so it's not a spell or power. In addition, you need an Int or Wis of at least 30 to get more than a day for your time. Also, apples and oranges, because not only is this shorter than that feat, but the problem there was what should have been a simple feat was the Epic of Gilgamesh. This is as short as it could possibly be, and the payoff is not just appropriate for, but maybe exceeds the expectations of a read that long. This is crazy shit. Ukemi is...a bit of fancy moves. -SecondDeath777 15:29, 4 February 2018

Phew, funny Luigi brings it up, but yeah this reminds me of Ukemi. It's very wordy. Isn't there a way we can cut this down? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 16:41, 5 February 2018 (MST)

Well, as I clearly outline above, be my guest. You especially. -SecondDeath777 21:43, 5 February 2018

”What should have been a simple feat became the Epic of Gilgamesh”... I honestly don’t know how Ukemi could be simplified. Anyone have any ideas? --Luigifan18 (talk) 10:08, 6 February 2018 (MST)

Keikaku

Alright, taking a crack at it. Let's see...

Those are heafy pre-reqs. No particular comment on it, it just is a thing that is hard to take.

We can cut the fluff warning from the benefit.

This is making an ability check to determine time to... determine your free time. Hm. Then a sense motive vs bluff check with modifiers to determine a... mode? I may have missed something or my eyes glossed over, but I am unsure what "mode" is. Seems to be referring to the part next which is basically you can do a series of actions that can't be noticed, and presumably this means you can have something in place ahead of time.

Hmm, yes, ok, I can get the idea but this execution... Ah, let me bring in Bag Full of Knick Knacks. Ok, so this is technically Just As Planned for items. Rather than determining if you had time and if you can get away with it and if you can determine what you need, this is how you go about it. "You get what you need in the nick of time, because you're good like that. Obviously this can't be done all the time forever, so we have established a gp limit of what you can pull off, and a limit to keep you from getting endless free goods over time."

Now this one is a big more broad, especially since it probably involves actions. The closest example to this open-ended changing of the situation is Wish and company, so the DM will have to be a part of what you can get away with. But like Wish, that doesn't mean we can't manage restrictions on this otherwise unlimited power.

I need some more information before I can help further. We need to find the following:

Exactly how much shenanigans do you want to get away with here? Are we talking about "Actually I switched our drinks with poison this entire time" shenanigans, or "Actually the King was dead all along and I was playing him this entire time!" shenanigans.

How often do you want to be able to pull this off? Skill tricks are basically 1/minute, so perhaps a Skill Trick isn't the best format for this.

The most likely scenario is that we can make this a limited use thing that can get you a change in your local reality retroactively. Fluffwise it was always like this, you were just sneaking around doing things when off screen, and that should be fine. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 20:07, 5 February 2018 (MST)

Which kind of shenanigans is probably a little closer to the first example. You could do the second one if you had an unbroken stream of Prep Time with which you could impersonate the king, but if you were saving that up, why not just do it anyway instead of waiting to do it retroactively? It's kinda like time traveling, but quite a bit more restrictive.

How often is...a difficult question. Clearly, not spammable on the same character in the same encounter, but I wouldn't be against using it once per opponent in the same encounter, since your Prep Time wouldn't be multiplied and you'd have to split it between them. -SecondDeath777 01:45, 6 February 2018

I'm gonna mull on this overnight, but I think I may have something. I just need a bit to put into coherency. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:33, 6 February 2018 (MST)