Talk:Armory (3.5e Cleric Domain)

Ratings

	Parakee opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	I agree with with Eiji. Full BAB is too good a benefit for just a domain power.

	Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	So it would be alright, but the full BAB just completely kills it.

Improved Attack Bonus has limits/prereqs for this very reason...

Take Cloistered Cleric. Enjoy full BAB with full spells. Win D&D more.

Domain powers are usually equal to feats, or less if the spells are particularly good. Right now I could have a low BAB and still gain full.

The odd inclusion of 0th level spells in the domain, while inoffensive, seems pointless. Why? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 12:27, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, it should increase your BAB progression by one step, at most (some homebrew feat do that) and then again, maybe limited to a certain variety of weapons, perhaps? About the 0-level domain spell, though: I've always liked the mechanic and found that it lacked. as well as Domains, partial spellcaster classes (ranger, paladin, etc) should also get cantrips/orizons in my opinion. Note that it doesn't affect balance in meaningful way and allows for earlier spellcasting, which fits the theme of the classes better. But I digress... -HarrowedMind (talk) 20:26, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Bumping this for emphasis. Also, as pointed out, Armory + Organic = your DM vomits in your mouth. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 09:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Emphasis Bump 2: electric boogaloo. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 19:48, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

That's not even getting into the what happens when you throw in scaling feats and other tome goodness like Priest (3.5e Class). Look mommy, I'm a better fighter than the VH fighter!--Fluffykittens (talk) 01:55, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

...What part of "armory" didn't you get? If you're taking this domain, it indicates that you are seriously dedicated to fighting and warfare. Therefore, the whole idea here is that you're able to use any weapon, even one you're not proficient with, more effectively than a less martially-focused cleric. Indeed, most of the domain spells conjure some sort of weapon for you to wield, and having a high base attack bonus helps you make the most of them. I did, however, add a clause that makes it so the domain power only improves the base attack bonus of the class you took it with. (In practice, this will usually be cleric, but Complete Divine introduced prestige classes that had you take additional domains, so by referring to "the class you took this domain with", I'm accounting for those prestige classes.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:31, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

There are better ways to express that than full BAB. That, and armory seems to focus more on the weapons and the production or keeping of them rather than fighting with them per se, YMMV.

While I think there are better ideas than "you're better than fighting", let's run with that. You can have it that weapon focused feats (like, uh, weapon focus) apply to all weapons, and that you have an effective fighter level so you can pick up the other fighter-only feats. Or... you can make it that you gain a bonus on attacks without an increase in BAB, so you aren't stepping on the already underpowered in comparison toes of martial, much like the nerf to Divine Power that pathfinder employed. Or even simply full proficiency in every martial and exotic. All of these things I would find both more balanced and probably better flavor than what you have now.

Of course, my personal opinion is that since this is Armory, and not War, than you should be an armory. Conjuring magical weapons as needed on the fly, pulling out Swords of Specifically-This-Bane for you and allies, repairing damaged equipment, and maybe even identifying weapons and armor, resisting cursed weapons and armor, or even gaining Craft Arms and Armor. This speaks better to me. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 00:46, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

That's actually a good idea. However, I'm not entirely sure how to implement it, especially not in a concise manner. Case in point: the granted power of my new Eyebane domain, whose granted power is a blindness-inducing gaze attack that can be either temporary if you use it as is or permanent if you expend a turning/rebuking attempt on it... and also, as is, a messy wall of text that really has no need to be a wall of text. Le sigh. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

(RESET INDENT) I can help with that. Though I suppose I should ask... which thing did you like most? The Pulling Swords Out thing?

I'll take a peek at that link. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand your question... do you mean the weapon shift spell-like ability? That absolutely has to stay. --Luigifan18 (talk) 04:09, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Huh, no, actually I totally missed that was there. Is that SpC?

I was just talking about the main bit of the domain power, replacing gaining full BAB for something less pants-on-head-crazy. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 04:18, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, what do you have in mind? (And, yes, weapon shift is from the Spell Compendium.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 04:23, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

The stuff I posted above. I feel a couple things could represent armory better than full BAB. Since weapon shift is part of the package, we can actually use that to our advantage and simplify things. Hmmm, I would recommend... I think I like the flavorful and useful abilities of identifying objects, resisting their curses, and repairing (or shuffling around) their enhancements. That may be complicated though, so the simpler answer would probably be "Craft Magic Arms and Armor" OR "complete proficiencies" and call it a day. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 04:26, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I'd love to go with the complete proficiency thing, but I have another domain that grants proficiency with all slashing weapons, and I don't want to overshadow that. --Luigifan18 (talk) 06:05, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you can give yourself (or another person) proficiency as a standard action for X duration? The trick here is that it has an action cost even if its at will, so if you're surprised you need to burn a standard. This way you are "proficiency in everything", but not everything at the same time. You can also give it to someone else, but if you can only have one active at a time, you don't benefit from it until you take it back. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 06:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

(RESET INDENT) I was gonna rate it, but that full BAB nonsense is still there. Are you keeping it, even though I see it unfavorably? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC)