Talk:Beggar's Bedazzler (3.5e Equipment)

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Ratings[edit]

RatedOppose.png Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
SO ABOUT THAT PRICE

Price

Is missing. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:26, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

Bump. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 15:19, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Bumper. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:10, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I don't know how to determine the price... ~~----
You got your dashes and tildes mixed up, Luigi.
Well, easiest way to figure out a price... what level do you think it is appropriate for PCs to have this? Cross reference with wealth by level, and figure out a reasonable price from there. Often I'll be like "I want people to have this at level 7". Well the difference between level 6 and 7 WBL is 6000g. Compare it with other items, usefulness, etc, and there's your starting point. Maybe it's 5000, maybe it's 8000, but now you have an idea.
I'd say 500gp for the ± skill modifiers (negative ones treated as half a skill for math purposes), 4220 for the 2/day Charm Person (treating Caster Level as 6 as this is the level of the magic item), coming up to a total of 4720gp. LenKagetsu (talk) 16:37, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
I really have no idea what average wealth-by-level looks like... --Luigifan18 (talk) 21:47, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
I am feeling sassy today. -- 23:55, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. But there's also... well, look at the name. It's designed for beggars. As in, people who would be hard-pressed to be able to buy an apple, let alone a magic item. In fact, in-universe, it would be designed by beggars, which is why the abilities are kind of weak and aimed specifically towards getting people to give you money. It's supposed to be dirt-cheap. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Wait. We can just give it a title that lets you do whatever for flavor, balanced be damned?
Knife of the Hobo: This +5 vorpal dancing flaming burst dagger has the ability to cast Wish as a free action. It's dirty, because a hobo used it.
Holy crap, that was fun! And my hyperbole is justified, because it's supposed to be used by hobos, so it can be sold for only a few copper instead of the 200,000+ gp it is probably worth.
...
...I admit I am being snarky, but really? That's the justification? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
It's not that strong! Sure, it's charm person, but it's restricted to making people give you money – and not even a huge amount unless you min-max your Diplomacy skill. And just because a hobo manages to find a super-powerful knife doesn't mean that knife isn't worth an exorbitant amount of money. The Beggar's Bedazzler is supposed to be something that was actually invented by a hobo. --Luigifan18 (talk) 03:41, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

(RESET INDENT) While I was being hyperbolic, I can say that charm (which is actually working as suggestion here, not charm mind you) gives you 20 x Diplomacy check. In WotC, commoners work in terms of copper. Even with my own homebrew variant rules on craft, commoners work with single digit gold amounts. And beggers technically would have nothing, so they couldn't buy items in the first place.

20 x check though? Hoo boy. Even without optimization (easy) and with all but average stats, that's, on average, is gonna be 280 gp. Twice a day.

Sir, you are no begger. You are a con artist. Each day you can make buck. Two days, and you gain the total WBL of a 2nd level PC.

This is much stronger than you've intended, or at the least the fluff is not fitting to the effect. The name is fine, but one would imagine it is figurative. Real beggers would never had magic items in the first place. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 03:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

A bit more...

I should specify that the item is fine (if giving a bit much), but if you want those numbers, you can't make it cheap. So either lower the effect, or lower the price.

Also, I'd use suggestion, because charm isn't doing what you think it does. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:23, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

"20 x check though? Hoo boy. Even without optimization (easy) and with all but average stats, that's, on average, is gonna be 280 gp. Twice a day." It offers no protection from "knife to the face", and any victim will immediately know what's going on. Seems to be better suited for flushing enemies out of cover than begging.
Also, charm person (un-heightened, no feats or anything) DC at level six for a sorc with 20 CHA is usually DC 16. Diplomacy check at level 6 (assuming merely max ranks and 20 CHA with no other bonuses) is gonna be 14+1d20, or 15-34 (avg 24.5). And boosts to diplomacy, unlike to save DCS and saving throws, are a dime a dozen.Fluffykittens (talk) 09:28, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
In that case I'd make it worth 2500gp due to it being very situational and the fact that regular adventuring is much more profitable by a landslide. WBL is a load of bollocks anyway, and the money-making ability of this is screwed over by the fact that the people you can use it on won't even have that much money to begin with. Ones that do will more often than not have that beggar hauled off by the guard or shanked because of his dodgy magic. In theory, yes, it's powerful, but in practice it's nowhere near as good as you think it is. Random NPCs can't just make gold appear out of thin air. You'd have to be harassing royalty, nobles, and tax collectors which is a very bad idea most of the time. LenKagetsu (talk) 18:34, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Indeed, the Beggar's Bedazzler only compels someone to give you money. If you use it on an unscrupulous person, it does nothing to stop them from taking their money back, and possibly doing something rather unpleasant in the process. Maybe I should rework that. But then again, beggars are a desparate lot by nature, and any risk is prefarable to a certainty of starving to death... --Luigifan18 (talk) 19:19, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
The flavor of the item is suspect. Glass ain't cheap in medieval/renaissance times, and plastic is nonexistent in pre-industrial age DND settings, not to mention how a beggar could have the GP and magical talent to enchant a sixth-level magic item. And the DC of the charm effect is still horrifying. Fluffykittens (talk) 20:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Price 2: Price Harder[edit]

So about that price... -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:17, 26 December 2018 (MST)