https://dnd-wiki.org/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=YouLostMe&feedformat=atomDungeons and Dragons Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T15:14:48ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.30.0https://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cat_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=333024Cat (3.5e Sphere)2021-01-08T00:02:28Z<p>YouLostMe: un-italicizing an inline note</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Darth_Rabbitt<br />
||co-authors=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2021-01-07<br />
|status=complete<br />
|editing=Conservative edits only<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Cat Sphere=<br />
<br />
The cat sphere is for cat monsters, cat wizards, and all other sphere-wielding cat lovers.<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{Sphere<br />
|title=Cat<br />
|special=You can speak with all feline creatures as though you shared a language. See the ''[[SRD:Speak with Animals|speak with animals]]'' spell description.<br />
|level1=[[SRD:Feather Fall|feather fall]] †<br />
|level3=[[SRD:Cat's Grace|cat's grace]]<br />
|level5=[[SRD:Arcane Sight|arcane sight]]<br />
|level7=summon pest swarm (Cityscape) ‡<br />
|level9=bite of the weretiger (SpC)<br />
|level11=[[Proximity to Cat (3.5e Spell)|proximity to cat]]<br />
|level13=lion's roar (SpC)<br />
|level15=fierce pride of the beastlands (SpC)<br />
|level17=sphere of ultimate destruction (SpC)<br />
|level19=[[SRD:Shapechange|shapechange]]'' (feline forms only)''&nbsp;<br />
}}</onlyinclude><br />
<br />
† Using this spell-like ability is an immediate action. If you land on the ground while under its effect, you always land feet-first.<br />
<br />
‡ If your DM allows it, you may take ''[[Cat Pile (3.5e Spell)|cat pile]]'' instead of this spell.<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Sphere Breadcrumb}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Tome]]<br />
[[Category:Sphere]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cat_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=333023Cat (3.5e Sphere)2021-01-08T00:00:03Z<p>YouLostMe: adding categories</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Darth_Rabbitt<br />
||co-authors=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2021-01-07<br />
|status=complete<br />
|editing=Conservative edits only<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Cat Sphere=<br />
<br />
The cat sphere is for cat monsters, cat wizards, and all other sphere-wielding cat lovers.<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{Sphere<br />
|title=Cat<br />
|special=You can speak with all feline creatures as though you shared a language. See the ''[[SRD:Speak with Animals|speak with animals]]'' spell description.<br />
|level1=[[SRD:Feather Fall|feather fall]] †<br />
|level3=[[SRD:Cat's Grace|cat's grace]]<br />
|level5=[[SRD:Arcane Sight|arcane sight]]<br />
|level7=summon pest swarm (Cityscape) ‡<br />
|level9=bite of the weretiger (SpC)<br />
|level11=[[Proximity to Cat (3.5e Spell)|proximity to cat]]<br />
|level13=lion's roar (SpC)<br />
|level15=fierce pride of the beastlands (SpC)<br />
|level17=sphere of ultimate destruction (SpC)<br />
|level19=[[SRD:Shapechange|shapechange]] (feline forms only)<br />
}}</onlyinclude><br />
<br />
† Using this spell-like ability is an immediate action. If you land on the ground while under its effect, you always land feet-first.<br />
<br />
‡ If your DM allows it, you may take ''[[Cat Pile (3.5e Spell)|cat pile]]'' instead of this spell.<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Sphere Breadcrumb}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Tome]]<br />
[[Category:Sphere]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cat_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=333022Cat (3.5e Sphere)2021-01-07T23:56:07Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
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<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Darth_Rabbitt<br />
||co-authors=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2021-01-07<br />
|status=complete<br />
|editing=Conservative edits only<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Cat Sphere=<br />
<br />
The cat sphere is for cat monsters, cat wizards, and all other sphere-wielding cat lovers.<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{Sphere<br />
|title=Cat<br />
|special=You can speak with all feline creatures as though you shared a language. See the ''[[SRD:Speak with Animals|speak with animals]]'' spell description.<br />
|level1=[[SRD:Feather Fall|feather fall]] †<br />
|level3=[[SRD:Cat's Grace|cat's grace]]<br />
|level5=[[SRD:Arcane Sight|arcane sight]]<br />
|level7=summon pest swarm (Cityscape) ‡<br />
|level9=bite of the weretiger (SpC)<br />
|level11=[[Proximity to Cat (3.5e Spell)|proximity to cat]]<br />
|level13=lion's roar (SpC)<br />
|level15=fierce pride of the beastlands (SpC)<br />
|level17=sphere of ultimate destruction (SpC)<br />
|level19=[[SRD:Shapechange|shapechange]] (feline forms only)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
† Using this spell-like ability is an immediate action. If you land on the ground while under its effect, you always land feet-first.<br />
<br />
‡ If your DM allows it, you may take ''[[Cat Pile (3.5e Spell)|cat pile]]'' instead of this spell.</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Cat_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=333021Cat (3.5e Sphere)2021-01-07T23:54:41Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "{{author |author_name=Darth_Rabbit ||co-authors=YouLostMe |date_created=2021-01-07 |status=complete |editing=Conservative edits only }} =Cat Sphere= The cat sphere is for ca..."</p>
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<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Darth_Rabbit<br />
||co-authors=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2021-01-07<br />
|status=complete<br />
|editing=Conservative edits only<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Cat Sphere=<br />
<br />
The cat sphere is for cat monsters, cat wizards, and all other sphere-wielding cat lovers.<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{Sphere<br />
|title=Cat<br />
|special=You can speak with all feline creatures as though you shared a language. See the ''[[SRD:Speak with Animals|speak with animals]]'' spell description.<br />
|level1=[[SRD:Feather Fall|feather fall]] †<br />
|level3=[[SRD:Cat's Grace|cat's grace]]<br />
|level5=[[SRD:Arcane Sight|arcane sight]]<br />
|level7=summon pest swarm (Cityscape) ‡<br />
|level9=bite of the weretiger (SpC)<br />
|level11=[[Proximity to Cat (3.5e Spell)|proximity to cat]]<br />
|level13=lion's roar (SpC)<br />
|level15=fierce pride of the beastlands (SpC)<br />
|level17=sphere of ultimate destruction (SpC)<br />
|level19=[[SRD:Shapechange|shapechange]] (feline forms only)<br />
}}<br />
<br />
† Using this spell-like ability is an immediate action. If you land on the ground while under its effect, you always land feet-first.<br />
<br />
‡ If your DM allows it, you may take ''[[Cat Pile (3.5e Spell)|cat pile]]'' instead of this spell.</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page&diff=266611Talk:Main Page2017-01-03T01:50:27Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
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<div>{|align=right style="background:#eedd99; border-radius:1em; border-style:solid; border-width:1px;"<br />
! Wiki info<br />
|-<br />
|align=left|Pages: {{NUMBEROFPAGES}}<br />
|-<br />
|align=left|Articles: {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}<br />
|-<br />
|align=left|Files: {{NUMBEROFFILES}}<br />
|-<br />
|align=left|Edits: {{NUMBEROFEDITS}}<br />
|-<br />
|align=left|Version: {{CURRENTVERSION}}<br />
|}<br />
Use this page to discuss design and content changes to the '''[[{{int:mainpage}}|main page]]''', as well as general wiki business. Other wiki discussion can be found at '''[[Project:Community Portal|Community Portal]]'''.<br />
<br />
Note that some conversations here have been [[Talk:Main Page/Archive|archived (1)]], [[Talk:Main Page/Archive2|archive (2)]].<br />
<br />
----<br />
<br />
== External Links ==<br />
<br />
So, I'm liking the complete lack of spam pages right now. Blocking every link is ''working'', but it's not a good plan going forward. So here are a few of the options we have, and I'd like to discuss them with people because that's what I do I guess:<br />
#Back to the way things were. We leave it locked down for another week or 4, and then open it back up and hope spammers have given up on us. It works for email to go dark for a couple months (at least, it used to), but we're not entirely dark and and not an email, so who knows.<br />
#Keep it locked down, start using the whitelist. Yes, we have a whitelist.... that I and everyone else seems to have completely forgotten about. This is an admin (regular, non-bureaucrat admin as far as I know) editable list of sites that will override the blacklist. So we just add sites to it as needed or requested, and the external linking party continues without spam... probably. I have already added [http://www.giantitp.com GitP] to the list, which also allows through things like [http://www.giantitp.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?15-Homebrew-Design GitP's Homebrew Forum].<br />
#Keep it locked down, don't use the whitelist, use interwikis for external linking instead. Interwiki links work differently than normal external links, and permanently fix the initial text of a link. You can just declare in the interwiki table that when someone puts gitpthread:<thing> in a wiki link, that it gets replace with <nowiki>http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?<thing></nowiki> as an external link. Example: <nowiki>[[gitpthread:193515-Orc-Goblinoid-Resources]]</nowiki> --> [[gitpthread:193515-Orc-Goblinoid-Resources]]. This option would be better locked down than the whitelist and also forces bots to use internal wiki style links (which I've never even seen), but it's also less flexible for users and I'm not even sure if non-bureacrats can edit in new ones (I'm the only person who even tries as far as I know).<br />
<br />
I think that the whitelist is probably the best bet, as it allows the most flexibility in use and for the most people and is backwards compatible with existing external links. Any opinions on the matter? - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 01:25, 24 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Eiji has been unable to reply to this post, because blacklist issues. If you're not eiji and reading this, please try to reply to this post even if you have nothing to add at all. If you can't let me know on my talk page. Thanks - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 09:24, 24 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
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::Should option 3. already work? I have just tried to add a new interwiki link (with forgottenrealms), but cannot save it. Hmm, and how would I get to the whitelist? Thanks for letting me know. [[User:Daranios|Daranios]] ([[User talk:Daranios|talk]]) 17:49, 27 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
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:::Option 3 does already work, we would just need to add new interwiki abbreviations for anything else we wanted to link to. I tested it after you did the FR interwiki link on a publication a week or so back (which was after everything was blacklisted). Nothing has changed since then, so you being unable to add a new interwiki link is weird. There may be existing http urls on the page that would throw an error though. Were you seeing a blacklist error when you tried to save?<br />
<br />
:::As to the whitelist, you can find it at [[Mediawiki:Spam-whitelist]]. Add each url you need for linkage to the next open line. Please make them as complete as possible. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 23:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Yes, it is really quite weird. Adding a link at [[Canon:Phlogiston]] now worked fine. I do get a blacklist error ("The text you wanted to save was blocked by the spam filter. This is probably caused by a link to a blacklisted external site. The following text is what triggered our spam filter: / "), however, when I try to add the same interwiki link [[Forgottenrealms:Phlogiston|phlogiston]] at [[User:Daranios|my user page]]. [[User:Daranios|Daranios]] ([[User talk:Daranios|talk]]) 11:03, 28 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::You have existing links your use page that can no longer be saved under current black/white list conditions, and those would trigger no matter what changes you tried to make. Should add some of those to the white list. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 18:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
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::::::So that was the problem. Thanks, now it works, and I know how to expand the whitelist as needed! [[User:Daranios|Daranios]] ([[User talk:Daranios|talk]]) 21:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Blacklisted links ==<br />
<br />
Did we make you tube a black listed site for out going links? Ive used you tube videos as link for examples of what I was referring to and I went in to update some broken links to videos that had been taken down and I got an error about it not being able to post due to a black listed website in my changes. When was this change made, and why? [[User:The-Marksman|The-Marksman]] ([[User talk:The-Marksman|talk]]) 21:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
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:We moved to an "approved link" rather than a "not blocked link" setup a few months back when I blacklisted '''everything''' to deal with spambots. We've since been adding things to the whitelist as needed / requested. Youtube seems like one I should have already done and just forgot about, so I have done it. Sorry for the invoncenience. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 21:14, 27 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Thank you! :) [[User:The-Marksman|The-Marksman]] ([[User talk:The-Marksman|talk]]) 21:29, 27 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Posting for Leziad about Search Issues ==<br />
<br />
''(This is Eiji, the following is posted for Leziad. Are we running into whitelist issues? He kept running into them with this, but I wasn't able to locate why. And I'm able to post just fine, sooo....) -- [[User:Eiji-kun|Eiji-kun]] ([[User talk:Eiji-kun|talk]]) 05:51, 16 March 2015 (UTC)''<br />
<br />
''(I fixed it. There were some unwhitelisted things. Since I was meaning to archive stuff anyway, I manually parsed through it for links.)-- [[User:Eiji-kun|Eiji-kun]] ([[User talk:Eiji-kun|talk]]) 06:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)''<br />
<br />
Maybe im missing something but the search function is pretty useless when you want to find particular material. By example I was trying to search for feats that affect critical hits, so I type 'critical hit', I am redirected to the SRD Critical Hit. So I try again just writing 'critical' and I am brought AGAIN to the SRD critical hit. This happen constantly, sometime redirecting me to some 4e useless reference list. Since the feat page is so bloated actually finding feats good for you is a chore and in the case of high-level feat you need to know how to expand the list.<br />
<br />
That [[Move Action|4e index]] (linking it through one of those handy redirect!, when you reply you will see the absurdity), I went ahead and looked what redirected to it, here some golden examples: arcane, divine, lightning, martial, thunder, stance, charm, zone, ranged and more. Seriously, if you use those terms alone in the search you will end up on this index. This make it very hard to find material that directly affect stances, martial maneuver users, divine feats and a load of other things through the search function. It not an SRD page that explain rules or something, no, it a list. <br />
<br />
Again maybe im missing something here, but sometime our search function is borderline unusable. Even when the use of redirect is acceptable it still somewhat annoying, take [[Sneak Attack]] by example. It link to rogue, that useful if you need the rules for sneak attacks or if you need to make a link to sneak attack. However it not all that much harder than writing <nowiki>[[SRD:Rogue#Sneak Attack|Sneak Attack]]</nowiki>. With that said, redirect like that I accept because they do become handy, so is critical hit. But critical still linking to critical hit and arcane redirecting a stupid list is perhaps a bit overzealous on the redirect? </rant>--[[User:Leziad|Leziad]] ([[User talk:Leziad|talk]]) 06:59, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:The built in search (as opposed to semantic searching, which is a whole different thing), strongly favors page ''title'' matches over page ''text'' matches. You can override that by scrolling to the bottom of he suggested list and selecting the ''contains'' part, but it's non-obvious most of the time. You can also just not use the whole word and not select a completion suggestion.<br />
<br />
:But the larger problem there is that single word redirect pages are aggressively selected for in searches, and they link to specific things rather than defaulting to the 'contains' search. Just removing these redirect pages or moving them so that they include an edition tag at the beginning would probably help. Things which are not edition specific should probably not redirect to edition specific pages. 'Dex' as an SRD redirect is pretty poor, but '3.5e Dex' would probably be fine.<br />
<br />
:If you wanted to search for pages that had a specific property set to Arcane (or whatever), you'd need to use the semantic search. Or the semantic drilldown that we haven't even looked at since early wikia days. It's a whole different problem. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 16:25, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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::Surgo here (at work). If I can catch you all on chat I want to talk about this and what we can do to improve matters. [[Special:Contributions/2620:0:1000:3103:CC50:112E:A810:AE93|2620:0:1000:3103:CC50:112E:A810:AE93]] 16:28, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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:::I can try to be on later, just ping me when it's convenient and I'll see what I can do.<br />
<br />
:::Short of removing the short redirects to avoid the default search behavior or altering the default search behavior to trigger the 'contains' when you don't specifically select a specific page from the suggested list, I'm not really sure what would work well. Semantic search / drilldown probably wouldn't help in this instance, because we don't track what stuff modifies crits. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 17:47, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::(Edit Conflict!) I'll mention this here since it's pertinent maybe, [[Special:Search]] allows searches that don't go to articles and always just produces results, like that "containing..." selection in the scroll down for the regular search box (I also never noticed that's what that was before, so oh man, thanks for pointing that out, that's awesome). I guess going into the [[Special:SpecialPages|Special pages]] to locate [[Special:Search]] is an extra step or two that's less convenient, but still, it's an option. --[[User:Ganteka Future|Ganteka Future]] ([[User talk:Ganteka Future|talk]]) 17:49, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Special:Search linked in sidebar as a stopgap. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 19:11, 16 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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:::::: This will do nicely, thank you. I still think a lot of that 4e Index thing is problematic for people searching for SRD stuff but oit not that much of a big deal. --[[User:Leziad|Leziad]] ([[User talk:Leziad|talk]]) 03:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::I agree that it's problematic from a search stand point, but I think that applies to all of the edition free SRD redirects as well. When Replace Text is working again, I'll probably go through [[Special:ListRedirects]] and migrate a bunch to other stuff. If you want to go through the list already to find the 4e redirects and unlink them manually / delete them, feel free. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 03:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Well, turns out I wasn't able to make it tonight :-/ So, ReplaceText is broken? I'll see what I can do about that. I'll also survey the current search landscape and see what we can dig up. Short of digging up anything, perhaps putting together a brief guide with examples for Semantic Search would get us most of the way there (though that's not perfect). [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 07:02, 17 March 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== hello i am a noob at d&d ==<br />
<br />
can someone tell me where to begin with this gaem. im lookin for sum books and stuff liek that u no.<br />
<br />
<br />
so if anyone can suggest me some good resource's id appreciate it<br />
<br />
thanks<br />
d&d noob<br />
<br />
== GOOD D&D RESOURCE'S?? ==<br />
<br />
If anyone here can provied some good D&D resource's Id be thankful,<br />
[[User:D&#38;D Noob|D&#38;D Noob]] ([[User talk:D&#38;D Noob|talk]]) 16:49, 22 December 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Recent downtime ==<br />
<br />
Thanks to whoever it was that texted me the wiki was down (I changed my phone so I'm not sure whose number that was). It was really badly timed since this is one of the few weeks I'm not WFH and wasn't able to get to it immediately. The reason is a bit embarrassing: there was a badly-behaved bot that was scraping the wiki but not rate limiting itself so it was overloading us with expensive requests. I blackholed their IP to solve the immediate problem, but perhaps more importantly I just switched us from Lighttpd to Nginx. Nginx has a rate-limiter module that can limit these sorts of requests, and I'm turning it on so we shouldn't have this sort of problem again. This should also result in a small performance boost because lighttpd is ancient and hasn't been updated to make use of the new PHP cgi methods like nginx has. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 05:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:I un-blackholed the IP and the rate limiting is letting us operate through this just fine. Hurray! [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 05:52, 2 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: I want to use this occasion to thanks you for the constant support Surgo. Hurray to you! --[[User:Leziad|Leziad]] ([[User talk:Leziad|talk]]) 06:10, 2 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Surgo proves once again why he is the Hero of the Internet. Seriously, if we ever meet I'm buying you dinner. -- [[User:Eiji-kun|Eiji-kun]] ([[User talk:Eiji-kun|talk]]) 07:10, 2 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Sorry about the 502s -- just a couple of teething issues with the new PHP installation. Unfortunately it happened in the middle of the night (for my time zone) while I was asleep and I wasn't able to get to it until after I came to work. - Surgo (not logged in)<br />
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:::::The text was probably from me. I sent one early this morning after a reminder from Leziad that the wiki was gronked at the time. I got a reply on the text, so yeah, there's that to confirm. I knew I should have put my name on it. Oh well. Didn't feel like sending a second text with just that on it. --[[User:Ganteka Future|Ganteka Future]] ([[User talk:Ganteka Future|talk]]) 00:30, 3 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
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::::::Looks like I haven't quite solved those teething problems yet. Sorry for the trouble. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 16:44, 3 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
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:::::::Seems like the immediate trouble is over but I'm having some issues with Recaptcha that is probably preventing IP edits. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 08:26, 7 March 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Creating Account ==<br />
<br />
The sign up page appears to be borked, with people unable to input the captcha. Anyone know how to fix this? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 06:47, 5 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
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: I've pinged Surgo about this. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 19:02, 5 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Fixed. The people behind ConfirmEdit extension CHANGED A SETTING VARIABLE'S NAME, thus breaking everyone who used ConfirmEdit. WTF. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 01:06, 6 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== help needed ==<br />
<br />
So I am working on a project called project fire emblem D&D it is meant to be a mix of Fire emblem and D&D but currently nobody is helping so if you would like to join {{unsigned|XX the memenist Xx}}<br />
<br />
You should probably make it a sourcebook instead of haphazardly creating random pages in the main wikispace. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 22:37, 25 July 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Captcha Problems ==<br />
<br />
Someone in the IRC channel is having problems signing up due to the captcha. Here's what he's saying: reCAPTCHA shows a check mark, but the website says "Incorrect or missing CAPTCHA."<br />
<br />
Anything we can do to help him? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 16:48, 13 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Ugh I saw this a bit after I went away from the weekend. Taking a look now... [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 18:33, 14 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::You've gotta be kidding me, those jokers at MediaWiki changed variable names '''again'''. Alright it should work now. Let me know immediately if it does not. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 20:34, 14 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Now a user is having trouble with e-mails. First he got a message that his e-mail contained an invalid character, and after that he received the following message: "Unknown error in PHP's mail() function." --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 05:25, 16 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
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::::Email should work now. A system upgrade moved the location of the program that sends the emails. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 04:43, 31 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Publicity ==<br />
<br />
If someone wants to put a word in for us [http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/4zcgc1/what_can_we_do_to_improve_the_content_of_ddwiki/ here], I think it would be a good idea. I plan on doing it myself when I get home, but that will be in a number of hours. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 14:02, 25 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_RPG/comments/57l9qy/help_optimizing_my_characterstrategy_to_stay/d8swwzd Our image]--we really need to work on it :-/ {{unsigned|Ghostwheel}}<br />
<br />
:: Radical ideas: what if we change our domain name? And we could move all the homebrew content to the new domain name, but leave the SRD and OGL material on this domain name. It would solve most of the complaints, I think. Then when people say "D&D wiki suckz", we can reply: "Yup, it does. Take a look at our wiki: we actually curate it and have the concept of authorship". --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] ([[User talk:Aarnott|talk]]) 00:21, 19 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: To what, something like... dnd-homebrew.com or somesuch?<br />
::: I'm not sure it would make much of a difference, since people are leery about homebrew in general unless we do a massive public campaign, like a weekly AMA, each time by one of our more prolific homebrewers to get ourselves out there and have people understand that we have actual quality control on this wiki. Once we do that, I think we can turn people's perception, and get our name out there at the same time to allow others to speak up and suggest homebrew from us when people ask for something, and also perhaps get more new blood writing content for the wiki. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 00:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I was thinking something more clever if possible. Similar to how Memory Alpha is a wiki but the name doesn't outright say "Star Trek". The advantage is that it can be referred to as its own "thing" so people can start forming new opinions instead of carrying preconceptions. Lots of people like the GitP forums and their form of quality control is basically that threads will die with no comments. I really do think that a wiki is an ideal way to distribute homebrew and I think a bit of effort differentiating and maybe a brief walkthrough set of pages on why we think a wiki is a good idea might go a long way. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] ([[User talk:Aarnott|talk]]) 00:49, 19 October 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Email issues ==<br />
<br />
While emails should be sending again, we aren't out of the woods there just yet -- Google doesn't like what we're sending and won't send it. Investigating how to fix. It has to do with ipv6 and PTR records, if you care. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] ([[User talk:Surgo|talk]]) 04:45, 31 August 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== WOW IT LOOKS DIFFERENT ==<br />
<br />
The new website look is great. Kudos to whoever made the update. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 18:50, 2 January 2017 (MST)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dragoon_(3.5e_Class)&diff=253188Talk:Dragoon (3.5e Class)2016-04-12T20:57:55Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Reddit Publicity */</p>
<hr />
<div>Hey just wondeirng about the energy pool, if i don't spend them all do they stack through to the next day? or is it 3x character level max, and if i don't use them, i just lose them. ty [[User:Balthuras|Balthuras]] 03:39, October 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Just my opinions here, but I think the wording for Dragon Magic is a little confusing regarding what level of spells you can select. Global Jump also seems a bit... strange to add to a class that's a mix of a fighter with dragonic magic supplementing the face that it has no bonus feats. just my 2 cents. [[User:Psychowarrior|Psychowarrior]] 04:07, 20 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hey, should "Armor Mastery" also help with Max Dex bonus and Armor Check Penalty? Since armor is essentially becoming a second skin to the dragoon - [[User:Kylem2013|Kylem2013]] ([[User talk:Kylem2013|talk]]) 03:59, 24 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also, finding class skills for dragons outside of the MM is difficult, if some assistance could be given there - [[User:Kylem2013|Kylem2013]] ([[User talk:Kylem2013|talk]]) 04:02, 24 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Reddit Publicity ==<br />
<br />
Not super relevant to the class itself, but there's a wonderful reddit thread claiming this is overpowered. The popular examples are Global Jump and Planar Jump. It's kind of sad / kind of funny to see it called OP when the class feature literally references spells that the wizard and sorcerer obtain at the same (sometimes lower) level.<br />
<br />
More on topic: This seems worthy of VH balance, considering it can dumpster dive for wiz/sorc spells with Dragon Magic and its combat routine looks pretty strong. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 20:32, 11 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Really? Huh, got a link for my curiosity? -- [[User:Eiji-kun|Eiji-kun]] ([[User talk:Eiji-kun|talk]]) 14:47, 12 April 2016 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: [https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/4eagwj/rdd_what_is_the_worst_or_most_broken_homebrew_a/d1yffjv|Link here]. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 20:57, 12 April 2016 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Dragoon_(3.5e_Class)&diff=253171Talk:Dragoon (3.5e Class)2016-04-11T20:32:43Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Reddit Publicity */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>Hey just wondeirng about the energy pool, if i don't spend them all do they stack through to the next day? or is it 3x character level max, and if i don't use them, i just lose them. ty [[User:Balthuras|Balthuras]] 03:39, October 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Just my opinions here, but I think the wording for Dragon Magic is a little confusing regarding what level of spells you can select. Global Jump also seems a bit... strange to add to a class that's a mix of a fighter with dragonic magic supplementing the face that it has no bonus feats. just my 2 cents. [[User:Psychowarrior|Psychowarrior]] 04:07, 20 July 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Hey, should "Armor Mastery" also help with Max Dex bonus and Armor Check Penalty? Since armor is essentially becoming a second skin to the dragoon - [[User:Kylem2013|Kylem2013]] ([[User talk:Kylem2013|talk]]) 03:59, 24 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Also, finding class skills for dragons outside of the MM is difficult, if some assistance could be given there - [[User:Kylem2013|Kylem2013]] ([[User talk:Kylem2013|talk]]) 04:02, 24 January 2015 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Reddit Publicity ==<br />
<br />
Not super relevant to the class itself, but there's a wonderful reddit thread claiming this is overpowered. The popular examples are Global Jump and Planar Jump. It's kind of sad / kind of funny to see it called OP when the class feature literally references spells that the wizard and sorcerer obtain at the same (sometimes lower) level.<br />
<br />
More on topic: This seems worthy of VH balance, considering it can dumpster dive for wiz/sorc spells with Dragon Magic and its combat routine looks pretty strong. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 20:32, 11 April 2016 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_and_Dragons_Wiki:The_Same_Game_Test&diff=235280Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:The Same Game Test2015-03-21T22:55:30Z<p>YouLostMe: Updated the names of the balance levels, and changed "[X] level class" to "[Y] balance level class" to avoid confusion</p>
<hr />
<div>{{Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Getting Started Header}}<br />
<br />
The '''Same Game Test''', or SGT, is a balance guideline used to gauge the level of power a character class or option brings to the table. It is derived from the definitions and explanations of encounter challenges in the Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual. It states that a character of any given level should have, on average, a 50% chance to win an encounter against a creature with a CR equal to the character's level or a group of creatures in a single encounter whose EL equals the character's level. On this wiki we have assigned this level of aptitude to the [[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article Balance#Rogue Level|Rogue]] balance level. Characters who perform noticeably better than 50% on an SGT, especially at later levels, are generally considered to fall into our [[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article Balance#Wizard Level|Wizard]] balance level. Characters who perform noticeably worse than 50%, especially at higher levels, are generally considered to fall into our [[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article Balance#Fighter Level|Fighter]] or [[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article Balance#Monk Level|Monk]] balance levels.<br />
<br />
The test was originally written to test 10th level characters, but has been expanded to also include levels 5 and 15 on this wiki.<br />
<br />
==Running a Same Game Test==<br />
<br />
Running a SGT is essentially a thought exercise where you attempt to gauge the results of a character attempting to overcome each of the listed challenges. A character should be assumed to be at full health and ability before beginning the encounter, but should not be assumed to have any knowledge of it that would allow them to plan specifically for that encounter. The encounter must be beaten, in whatever sense that most applies to the encounter; the ability to escape or bypass a combat encounter is not treated as a win. The results of these individual challenges fall into one of the "Sure Win", "Likely Win", "Toss Up", "Likely Loss", or "Sure Loss" categories, and are often accompanied by a brief explanation to support that result. These are then totaled up, with each "Sure" result generally counted as twice as valuable as each "Likely" result to get a feel for the win / loss ratio of the character class or option.<br />
<br />
Unfortunately, there is a gray area in this test. You have the option of testing a fully written up character with specific feats and equipment or testing a shell of a character with only a class, class features, and the basic bonus providing equipment we would expect them to have at their level. A fully written character, especially one who is reasonably optimized against monsters who are almost universally not optimized and generally do not get the benefit of equipment, will always give you better results than testing the character who is just a class. The reverse is also true, in that a character without specific feats and equipment will perform less well than a character with these things against monsters who do have them, even if they aren't optimized.<br />
<br />
The results from a less complete character are less accurate, but can be generalized to more builds and actual games than a more specified character. If you are trying to gauge the power of a class rather than a specific build, the less specified build is often more useful because of that reason. It will underperform on the test because it lacks options it would normally have, but if you expect that you can balance appropriately.<br />
<br />
===A Level 5 Same Game Test===<br />
*A locked door behind an arbitrarily high number of assorted [[SRD:Traps#CR 4 Traps|CR 4 traps]].<br />
*A huge [[SRD:Animated Object|Animated iron statue]] in a throne room.<br />
*A [[SRD:Basilisk|Basilisk]] in its desert burrow.<br />
*A Large [[SRD:Fire Elemental|Fire Elemental]] in a mystic forge.<br />
*A [[SRD:Manticore|Manticore]] on the wing above a plain.<br />
*A [[SRD:Phase Spider|Phase Spider]] anywhere. They're tricky creatures like that.<br />
*A couple of [[SRD:Centaur|Centaur]] Archers in a light to medium wood.<br />
*A [[SRD:Howler|Howler]]/[[SRD:Allip|Allip]] tag team in an abandoned temple to a dark god.<br />
*A [[SRD:Grimlock|Grimlock]] assault team (4 members) hidden in a cavern.<br />
*A [[SRD:Cleric|Cleric]] of Hextor (with his dozen [[SRD:Human_Zombie|zombies]]) in a crypt.<br />
<br />
===A Level 10 Same Game Test===<br />
*A hallway filled with magical runes.<br />
*A [[SRD:Fire Giant|Fire Giant]] on an active volcano, who hides under lava if kited.<br />
*A Young [[SRD:Blue Dragon|Blue Dragon]], soaring over a seemingly endless expanse of sand dunes.<br />
*A [[SRD:Bebilith|Bebilith]] hidden on the ceiling of a cave in the abyss.<br />
*A [[SRD:Vrock|Vrock]] in a demonic forest.<br />
*A tag team of Mind Flayers in a cramped underground structure.<br />
*An Evil [[SRD:Wizard|Necromancer]] in a graveyard with extensive catacombs.<br />
*6 [[SRD:Troll|Trolls]] in a small cave behind a waterfall.<br />
*12 [[SRD:Shadow|Shadows]] in an inn after the lights have been doused for the night.<br />
<br />
===A Level 15 Same Game Test===<br />
*A [[SRD:Marut|Marut]] in a metropolis.<br />
*A Hullathoin (with its army of [[SRD:Skeleton|skeletons]] and bloodfiend locusts).<br />
*A Nightmare Beast deep in a hedge maze.<br />
*A Windghost in the sky.<br />
*A Yakfolk [[SRD:Cleric|cleric]] with a party of Dao, submerged in the elemental plane of earth.<br />
*A [[SRD:Drow|Drow]] [[SRD:Cleric|Priestess]] with an army of [[SRD:Ghoul|ghouls]].<br />
*A warparty of [[SRD:Cloud Giant|Cloud Giants]], in the process of assaulting the party's favorite village.<br />
*A Mature Adult [[SRD:White Dragon|White Dragon]], in its cavernous lair on the side of a mountain made entirely of ice, with an extensive series of tunnels it dug to inconvenience creatures that can't burrow or climb icy walls.<br />
*A Death Slaad riding a Titanic Toad.<br />
*A [[SRD:Cornugon|Cornugon]] in a cave structure with massive, 300 foot caves, who has obscured some of the connecting tunnels with illusions.<br />
*A [[SRD:Gelugon|Gelugon]] and his [[SRD:Iron Golem|Iron Golem]] bodyguard, travelling hellish glaciers in a blizzard.<br />
*A Rube Goldberg series of contingent weirds triggered to a set of symbols of pain surrounding the artifact.<br />
*A pair of [[SRD:Glabrezu|Glabrezus]], teleporting to trap the players in a 15 foot wide tunnel.<br />
*A harem of [[SRD:Succubus|Succubi]] using a brothel as cover while they prepare to allow more demons into the material plane.<br />
*Twenty [[SRD:Dire Bear|Dire Bears]] in a forest.<br />
*A dozen [[SRD:Medusa|Medusa]] archers mounted on [[SRD:Hellcat|Hellcats]] pretending to be hellcat-less archaelogists in a ruined temple complex.<br />
*A forest made out of lava and infested with hostile fire-element [[SRD:Dire Badger|dire badgers]].<br />
*A pair of Beholders in a ''[[SRD:disintegrate|disintegrated]]'' cavern structure, filled with smooth vertical tunnels and heavy plug-shaped objects waiting to be dropped into them.<br />
<br />
==Using Your Results==<br />
<br />
For classes, it is fairly easy to use the SGT to assign a balance level.<br />
*[[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article_Balance#Low_Balance|Low Balance Level]] - If a class wins less than 50% of the level 5 SGT, it is very likely a low balance level class.<br />
*[[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article_Balance#Moderate_Balance|Moderate Balance Level]] - If a class wins around 50% of the level 5 SGT but less than 50% of the level 10 SGT, it is very likely a moderate balance level class.<br />
*[[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article_Balance#High_Balance|High Balance Level]] - If wins around 50% of the level 5 and 10 SGTs, and does not fall behind significantly on the level 15 SGT, it is very likely a high balance level class.<br />
*[[Dungeons and Dragons Wiki:Article_Balance#Very_High_Balance|Very High Balance Level]] - If a class wins significantly more than 50% of the level 10 and 15 SGTs, it is very likely a very high level class.<br />
<br />
Also remember that we expect characters with specific, and thus likely optimized, feats and gear from character levels to perform better than a simple shell character with only class abilities and unspecified equipment. Such a character could perform a bit better than the percentages listed here without being above the level. Similarly, a character who is just a shell of class features and vague level appropriate bonus items might perform a bit below the percentages listed here without being below the level. The percentages listed here are not absolutes in any way, and the expected deviations from them depend on what method of test you use.<br />
<br />
For other character options, it is much harder to use the SGT to gauge balance. A test is often run with the option and with a different option of the same balance level, and the results then compared to make sure they still line up appropriately. If they do, the option is likely at the same level as the option it was compared against, but this is much more shaky ground than class testing.</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Anger_Point_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=229543Anger Point (3.5e Feat)2014-12-02T05:48:16Z<p>YouLostMe: Added in the rage spell link.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=SisterAcacia<br />
|date_created=22/10/2012<br />
|status=Complete<br />
|balance=Moderate<br />
}}<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{3.5e Feat<br />
|name=Anger Point<br />
|types=Monstrous, Fighter<br />
|summary=Getting punched in the face makes you angry. More than it pisses most people off, that is.<br />
|fluff=Getting punched in the face makes you angry. More than it pisses most people off, that is.<br />
|benefit=Any time you are damaged, you benefit from a ''[[SRD:Rage|rage]]'' effect (as the spell) for one minute. If you suffer a Critical Hit, your next attack deals an additional 1d6 damage if made in your next turn. Multiple Critical Hits won't stack - a single attack gains just 1d6 bonus damage, no matter what.<br />
|normal=Getting injured is a purely bad thing.<br />
}}</onlyinclude><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Feats Breadcrumb}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:3.5e]] <br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Feat]]<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Possessed_(3.5e_NPC_Class)&diff=229542Talk:Possessed (3.5e NPC Class)2014-12-02T05:45:25Z<p>YouLostMe: Added rating.</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=YouLostMe<br />
|rating=oppose<br />
|reason=DR 3/- per feat is way too much, especially for something that's got CR = 1/2 level. At level 1, humans have got DR 6/- and ER 6, which is basically the maximum damage from a fireball at that level.<br />
}}DR 3/- per feat seems like too much, especially for something that's got CR = 1/2 level. At level 1, humans have got DR 6/- and ER 6, which is like the maximum damage from a ''fireball'' at that level. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:33, 15 October 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blood_of_Stone_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=229538Talk:Blood of Stone (3.5e Feat)2014-12-02T05:09:46Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=DanielDraco<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=It's a little stronger than most at-will swift actions tend to be, but (probably) not overly much. In any encounter with more than one enemy it shouldn't be too bad. It is in any case something that would be fun to have as a player and is a quick-and-easy way to gain some tanking ability.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Foxwarrior<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=A steady rate of damage reduction per round, as well as the ability to sometimes weather really serious damage spikes? Neat.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
You did notice that it still lowers damage by BAB on an unsuccessful save, right? That's better than most creatures' DR (though yes, DR applies to multiple attacks). --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 19:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I did. --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] ([[User talk:Foxwarrior|talk]]) 19:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{{Rating |rater=Aarnott<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Gives you something worthwhile to do with your swift actions that also turns you into a bit of a tank.<br />
<br />
I really like the fact that it always does something even on a failed use. DC = Damage taken means at high levels it will probably just be -BAB damage, which is cool.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Luigifan18<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Dude, I wish I knew about this when designing the Tran trio! It's totally cool for shrugging off physical attacks.}}<br />
<br />
== Other Effects ==<br />
<br />
Hey Ghost, I think a specification is needed here. The description says any non-touch attack, which I infer to mean anything targeting your AC or flat-footed AC. But, as worded, it seems that area-of-effect spells as well as single-target spells can also be ignored. Is it supposed to be effective against a ''Cone of Cold''? [[User:Quilliard|Quilliard]] 01:08, July 16, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: In D&D terminology, attacks are strictly effects that require an attack roll, so it doesn't work against those other things. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:04, July 16, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== This and DR ==<br />
<br />
How does this feat interact with actual damage reduction a character may have? Since the DC is based on the damage taken, I assume it simply stacks. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] ([[User talk:Sulacu|talk]]) 07:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As written, it would reduce the damage before applying DR, I think. That's only a minor point, but it is also important to know in addition to whether it stacks. That is, 100 DR and 500 damage would give 500/2 - 100 = 150 damage on a successful save instead of (500-100)/2 = 200 damage. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] ([[User talk:Aarnott|talk]]) 19:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: A cat is fine too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 17:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Paragraph structure is confusing ==<br />
<br />
This is a cool feat, but it's a little confusing as-written. It took me 3 read-throughs to completely understand what was going on. I think this could benefit from some rewording, adding a semi-descriptive line at the beginning and reordering the words so the whole process is chronological:<br />
<br />
"As an immediate action, you can make a fort save to reduce damage you take from a non-touch attack. The DC is equal to the damage roll, and if you roll a 16 or higher your save is an automatic success. If you succeed at the save, halve the damage or reduce it by your BAB (whichever is better). If you fail, simply reduce the damage by your BAB."<br />
<br />
Also, any plans for additional feats in this vein? Something that lets you tank more attacks or eat AoE damage would be nice. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 05:09, 2 December 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Blood_of_Stone_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=229537Talk:Blood of Stone (3.5e Feat)2014-12-02T05:08:08Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Paragraph structure is confusing */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=DanielDraco<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=It's a little stronger than most at-will swift actions tend to be, but (probably) not overly much. In any encounter with more than one enemy it shouldn't be too bad. It is in any case something that would be fun to have as a player and is a quick-and-easy way to gain some tanking ability.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Foxwarrior<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=A steady rate of damage reduction per round, as well as the ability to sometimes weather really serious damage spikes? Neat.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
You did notice that it still lowers damage by BAB on an unsuccessful save, right? That's better than most creatures' DR (though yes, DR applies to multiple attacks). --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 19:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Yes, I did. --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] ([[User talk:Foxwarrior|talk]]) 19:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{{Rating |rater=Aarnott<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Gives you something worthwhile to do with your swift actions that also turns you into a bit of a tank.<br />
<br />
I really like the fact that it always does something even on a failed use. DC = Damage taken means at high levels it will probably just be -BAB damage, which is cool.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Luigifan18<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Dude, I wish I knew about this when designing the Tran trio! It's totally cool for shrugging off physical attacks.}}<br />
<br />
== Other Effects ==<br />
<br />
Hey Ghost, I think a specification is needed here. The description says any non-touch attack, which I infer to mean anything targeting your AC or flat-footed AC. But, as worded, it seems that area-of-effect spells as well as single-target spells can also be ignored. Is it supposed to be effective against a ''Cone of Cold''? [[User:Quilliard|Quilliard]] 01:08, July 16, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: In D&D terminology, attacks are strictly effects that require an attack roll, so it doesn't work against those other things. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:04, July 16, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== This and DR ==<br />
<br />
How does this feat interact with actual damage reduction a character may have? Since the DC is based on the damage taken, I assume it simply stacks. --[[User:Sulacu|Sulacu]] ([[User talk:Sulacu|talk]]) 07:29, 4 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:As written, it would reduce the damage before applying DR, I think. That's only a minor point, but it is also important to know in addition to whether it stacks. That is, 100 DR and 500 damage would give 500/2 - 100 = 150 damage on a successful save instead of (500-100)/2 = 200 damage. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] ([[User talk:Aarnott|talk]]) 19:52, 4 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: A cat is fine too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 17:02, 6 July 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Paragraph structure is confusing ==<br />
<br />
This is a cool feat, but it's a little confusing as-written. It took me 3 read-throughs to completely understand what was going on. I think this could benefit from some rewording, adding a semi-descriptive line at the beginning and reordering the words so the whole process is chronological:<br />
<br />
"As an immediate action, you can make a fort save to reduce damage you take from a non-touch attack. The DC is equal to the damage roll, and if you roll a 16 or higher your save is an automatic success. If you succeed at the save, halve the damage or reduce it by your BAB (whichever is better). If you fail, simply reduce the damage by your BAB."</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Frostbite_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=229455Frostbite (3.5e Sphere)2014-11-29T01:45:16Z<p>YouLostMe: Shivering Touch has normal and lesser versions, not normal and greater versions.</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=Frank and K<br />
|date_created=2006<br />
|status=Complete<br />
|editing=Spelling and grammar only<br />
|isnotuser=true<br />
}}<br />
<br />
=Frostbite Sphere=<br />
<br />
The cold terror of an infinite blizzard. The bite of a death encased in the inevitable progression of ice. Those with access to this sphere tend to be patient, cruel, and unfeeling.<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{Sphere<br />
|title=Frostbite<br />
|special=Any creature taking cold damage from your spell-like abilities is frostbitten (treat as fatigued, which is removed when the damage is healed). If you have It's Cold Outside, you may use those frostbite rules if you want.<br />
|level1=shivering touch, lesser ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level3=[[SRD:Scorching Ray|freezing ray]] (as Scorching ray, but Cold subtyped and doing cold damage) <br />
|level5=shivering touch ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level7=[[SRD:Cone of Cold|cone of cold]]<br />
|level9=flesh to ice ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level11=entomb ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level13=flesh to ice, chained ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level15=frostfell ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level17=iceburg ([[Frostburn]])<br />
|level19=[[SRD:Soul Bind|soul bind]] (uses a piece of ice to hold the soul)<br />
}}</onlyinclude><br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Sphere Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Tome]]<br />
[[Category:Sphere]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Roots_(3.5e_Sphere)&diff=229438Talk:Roots (3.5e Sphere)2014-11-28T09:03:37Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Sphere's messed up */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Sphere's messed up ==<br />
<br />
Antiplant shell is listed twice, at levels 9 and 11. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 09:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229252Talk:Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T04:03:41Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Miscellaneous Queries */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Leggo My Eg--err, Name ==<br />
<br />
So what exactly was the point of renaming my [[Warrior (3.5e Class)|Soldier]] and taking the name for this class? I was using the name for a very specific reason [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soldier_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics_A2%29].<br />
<br />
:Ahh, I get it now. I'll put your old version back, then. Just give me a minute to figure out how to change this class... [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:08, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you're wondering why I did it, it was because this class was made under this name months ago and I've been waiting for it to be finished (which it now is) to upload it here. The reason I moved the old name was, to be perfectly honest, because it was a very "generic"-feeling class and didn't seem to be tied to the soldier name in any way at all (I had no idea it was FF-based, which explains the name). So yeah. Sorry. I should have asked first. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:14, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Capstone ==<br />
<br />
'''Indomitable Nightmare:''' while the class having an actual class feature at 20 is good, I'm under the impression that you managed to make something too good for even that - a strike tends to be a pretty battle-changing move all by itself, 3 at once seems ... ridiculous. Since I highly suspect ripping the warblade off doesn't matter at all in Tome, dual-stancing might actually be worthwhile even at 20, and not '''too''' crazy. That, plus the reach increase, possibly.<br />
<br />
: While many strikes are battle-changing, they're usually battle-changing... against one foe. Compare to a similar wizard-level class, the wizard, who can take out a half-dozen enemies with a single spell, or the soulborn who, once a minute, can wipe out all enemies within 100'. It's far more comparable to either of those than simply being able to be in two stances at the same time. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 17:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: While I never agreed with the old and IMO false point of the original Tome warriors being better than spellcasters, I do think the recent incarnum classes + soldier by Frank are, by virtue of being quite better than original Tome classes, actually better combatants than spellcasters (and perhaps those with UMD are their equals out of combat as well), which's too much, so I wouldn't consider the soulborn a good data point. As for wizard: in Tome games, it seems actually kinda hard to land all of those (multiple at a time - single ones should be easy enough) kills on enemies that do matter, between short ranges, higher saves in Tome and an expectation of death/mind-affecting/etc. immunity. Meanwhile, the proposed level 20 soldier can get pretty much anywhere relevant and attack (doom tunnel/harrying strike, depending on circustances), attack everyone in sight (world-slaying strike), then morph the most relevant target into a hamster almost without fail - and all 3 strikes may add, say, sleep with a duration of "you die", if needed. Also: if the class held its own up to level 17 (which Frank's original seems to imply), it basically holds its own through 20 as well, as the changes actually are ... minimal, especially with regards to a class that already had an at-will resource model (i.e. it doesn't even "need" more 9th-level spells/day as a wizard "might").<br />
<br />
::: Ummm... yeah, Foil Action is still better than anything this class or the soulborn has to bring to the table. It's actually better than spellcasters, since it doesn't even grant a save against its effects, doesn't suffer from SR, and enemies can't teleport away from you to break off (you'll just foil that as well). And I wasn't talking about just Save or Dies. I'm talking about Time Stop->Piranha Trap, dealing a good 100d6ish of damage to multiple enemies as a force effect with no save. Let's see most other characters top that. Even with all the things this gets, the Tome Fighter is still better. And capstones aren't there to "hold up". They're there because they're cool, and because it's something for a character to look forward to when they reach the pinnacle of their power, and a reason not to automatically multiclass into something else. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I also think that the level 20 ability, while a good starting point, is probably too good. We need to break out of this cycle of wanting to top the last thing that was made. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Foil: range limitations, doesn't affect actions started outside, doesn't break full attacks, and AFAIK nothing says it can't be broken by other immediate actions/contingencies. And there's piles of soldier stuff the fighter doesn't ever see (and does miss), not to mention it having a rogue minus UMD shoved in (skills, bugbear stance). Lastly, I should add: I am not and have not been actually trying to get anyone to nerf the soldier - I'm just arguing against a completely off-scale power boost to a class that at least doesn't need any (Level 20 class feature? Hell yes. Absurd vertical power boost? Hell no.). Piranha trap: yeah, I also didn't mention the incantatrix, because to top that you'd pretty much need a "normal" spellcaster/(any) Tome class and +200 to all abilities and wish at will (and it might not be enough, IIRC), and I intend to keep ignoring things that don't have a place in Tome. 20th level in general: a) if class features there don't need to "hold up", they need much less to be stupidly huge boosts; b) not multiclassing isn't "desirable" and doesn't need a "reward"; you do it if your concept is single-classed and don't if it isn't, period.<br />
::::: Surgo: pretty much - need I say "Koumei", BTW?<br />
::::: (Someone tell me if I'm being too long-winded for a wiki talk page, please.)<br />
<br />
:::::: This capstone: 20' reach limitation, only reliably attacks 3 enemies (and can still miss), has to move to get close enough, doesn't stop enemies from roflpwning on their turn, and a few others. I'm not seeing how this is offscale. And Tome was made to keep up with high-level wizards using their abilities to the max. This capstone is good for taking down a single enemy, or three enemies if they're clustered together and can't teleport out of your reach as an immediate action (which the fighter could foil), but still builds on their core abilities. And concepts have nothing to do with it--this is mechanics, not flavor, and there should be an incentive to continue taking levels in a class. When there isn't, that's when you get dead levels and classes that are only X levels long. The capstone may seem powerful, but A. It's supposed to be fairly powerful--this is level 20 we're talking about, and beyond that you're going into lala-epic land, and B. It's still not nearly as powerful as what many of the other wizard-level classes can pull off--without PrCs too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 08:10, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: 19th-level soldier having 5' reach: ROFLMAO. "Close enough" can contain "line of sight" and "'''wherever''' some guy went". And Tome wasn't made to cope with shapechange, gate, miracle, incantatrixes (in order: already fixed, 2 scheduled for fixing back when the original authors worked on it, and simply ignored) and the like, if you think that. And the reason why you go to 20 in whatever class is because you get an ability that expresses your concept. Not "a better ability than everyone else gets", "an ability, period". Reality check: "Wizard 20: You can cast 3 spells at the time and slot costs of one." - and this is '''only''' a strawman at all if you believe soldiers are also underpowered at levels lower than 20, in which (absurd) case what it'd need would be an overall fix, not a ridiculous class feature that "fixes" all of 1 level out of however many are underpowered (definitionally at least 4, since basically every benchmark class got all of its things that matter by 17)<br />
<br />
::::::::Just saying that I've sort of stayed out of this discussion because I'm busy, but I'm thinking of a fix. Also, I don't really want to name names -- we're ''all'' guilty of it at some point or another. Some more than others. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Side note: Gate is partially covered by the fixes to [Calling] spells in Tome of Fiends. And if/when the Tome of Virtue is done, or before, we already have a Miracle fix. So that's 2 covered and one pending, and one ignored. --[[User:Quantumboost|Quantumboost]] 19:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: Well-aware. That's why I'd refused to accept piranha trap as data - things that crappy (e.g. weird time stop uses) are things that need fixing. As already done for a number of them, and visibly scheduled for others.<br />
<br />
== Epic Race: Quarut ==<br />
<br />
Being able to act during other people's time stops is beyond even regular wizard-level powerful I think. If you have 3 spellcaster buddies, you get 3d4+3 rounds to beat the snot out of the enemies. I figure the design was intended to counter enemy time stops. Instead, it makes your own spellcasters' time stops ridiculously powerful (and is also a good counter). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Is this... in the right talk page? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes. Look under the "Epic Stances" class feature. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, didn't see that one *nod* That said, that's wizard-level shenanigans for you *shrug* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Obv Time Stop doesn't actually freeze time, therefore you can't interact with anyone during the Time Stop except the one who cast the Time Stop. --TK-Squared 15:57, March 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: The (original, at TGD, included) text disproves that. Yeah, I guess 2 instances of "not" are in order. {{unsigned|187.107.35.242}}<br />
<br />
==Nitpicking==<br />
Just nitpicking here, "subdual" damage has not been used since 3.0, it's "nonlethal." [[User:Downzorz|Downzorz]] ([[User talk:Downzorz|talk]]) 12:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Miscellaneous Queries ==<br />
<br />
1. The Yuan-Ti stance uses a Con-based save instead of Int-based, and is the only stance that does this. Would it be kosher to change this, or is it on purpose?<br />
<br />
2. Does the soldier choose the item for Looting Strike?<br />
<br />
3. Is Executioner a [Death] effect? That's one heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
4. Would it be out of place to change the text from Brutal Strike into a table?<br />
<br />
5. Does a "standard attack" count as an attack action (and thus can it be used for things like trip attacks?). Like could a soldier use Extra Strike and trip someone out of turn?<br />
<br />
6. Does the slow on Delaying Tactics allow a save? Another heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
7. Whirlwind lists that the soldier can get no more "bonus cleave attacks than they have Intelligence modifier". In this case, what is a cleave attack? Is it like the attacks from Horde Breaker or is it the attacks from the Whirlwind strike?<br />
<br />
8. Could someone help me rationalize why Demoralizing Strike is a level 5 strike? It seems certainly weaker than the level 4 Mind Thwack. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 03:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229251Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T04:01:29Z<p>YouLostMe: /* "...psychic resonance THAT incapacitates others" */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=FrankTrollman<br />
|date_created=3/3/2010<br />
|adopter=Surgo<br />
|date_adopted=3/27/2010 <br />
|status=Complete<br />
|editing=Spelling and grammar only<br />
|balance=Wizard<br />
}}<br />
<div class="blank"><br />
{{#set:Summary=A warrior who understands the tactics of the various races of Dungeons &amp; Dragons and uses them herself in battle.<br />
|Length=20<br />
|Minimum Level=1<br />
|Base Attack Bonus Progression=Moderate<br />
|Fortitude Save Progression=Good<br />
|Reflex Save Progression=Poor<br />
|Will Save Progression=Poor<br />
|Class Ability=Other<br />
|Class Ability Progression=Full<br />
}}<br />
{{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Evil}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral Evil}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Evil}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
[[File:Dwarf Soldier.jpg|thumb|A dwarven soldier.]]<br />
<br />
{{TOC Limit|4}}<br />
<br />
== Soldier ==<br />
{{Quote|I got so much style, my styles got style.}}<br />
<br />
The worlds of Dungeons &amp; Dragons have dozens or even hundreds of sapient races, all of whom have distinctive methods of combat and warfare. And yet, it is demonstrably true that an individual warrior of one species is pretty much interchangeable for one of any other. The true tactical uniqueness comes from the exemplar soldiers of these empires, and those are the dudes who have the actual Soldier class. However, even that only usually applies to low level Soldiers. Those who've fought in many battles get a grasp on the special tactics of the other races and start using them in battle. It is to be noted that some races (such as Osyluth) don't really engage in battle, and instead direct minions to do battle on their behalf. The secrets of battle for these races are then the tricks they drum into soldiers working for them, rather than into their own warriors.<br />
<br />
The Soldier is a vaguely Book of Weaboo Fightan Magic class, and as such has Maneuvers, Stances, and an initiator level and stuff like that. However, while they have these things, they also have a very simple system for using their abilities: they can use any of them they know whenever they want. A Soldier gets a lot of Stances (one per level) and relatively less Maneuvers (one every other level). Deal with it.<br />
<br />
=== Making a Soldier ===<br />
<br />
A Soldier has multiple attribute dependency of Intelligence and Constitution, also they have only a ¾ BAB progression. Nonetheless they are serviceable combatants even though Strength and Dexterity are probably like their 3rd or 4th best attributes. <br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Soldiers can and do fight for any cause, sometimes for ideology and other times for pure mercenary interest. A Soldier can be of any alignment, and the class is no marker for level's of fanaticism. The player can choose how strongly they detect their alignment.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' 8d4&times;10 gp (200 gp).<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[Fighter (3.5e Class)|Fighter]].<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{Anchor|Table: The Soldier}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d8<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[#Maneuvers|Maneuvers]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|-<br />
|1st||class="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stances|Stances]], [[#Soldier Maneuvers|Soldier Maneuvers]], [[#Secrets of Battle|Secrets of Battle]]<br />
| 1<br />
|-<br />
|2nd||class="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Hardened Survivor|Hardened Survivor]]<br />
| 1<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||class="left" | +2 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Wearing Shoes|Wearing Shoes]], [[#Lucky|Lucky]]<br />
| 2<br />
|-<br />
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Stances|Mighty Stances]]<br />
| 2<br />
|-<br />
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Veteran's Experience|Veteran's Experience]]<br />
| 3<br />
|-<br />
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Leader of Men|Leader of Men]]<br />
| 3<br />
|-<br />
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 4<br />
|-<br />
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Fantastic Stances|Fantastic Stances]]<br />
| 4<br />
|-<br />
|9th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 5<br />
|-<br />
|10th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Meet Interesting People|Meet Interesting People]]<br />
| 5<br />
|-<br />
|11th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
|12th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Giant Stances|Giant Stances]]<br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
|13th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
|14th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Logistics Master|Logistics Master]]<br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
|15th||class="left" | +11/+6/+6 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Going Places|Going Places]]<br />
| 8<br />
|-<br />
|16th||class="left" | +12/+7/+7 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Epic Stances|Epic Stances]]<br />
| 8<br />
|-<br />
|17th||class="left" | +12/+7/+7 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| 9<br />
|-<br />
|18th||class="left" | +13/+8/+8 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mass Desertion|Mass Desertion]]<br />
| 9<br />
|-<br />
|19th||class="left" | +14/+9/+9 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| 10<br />
|-<br />
|20th||class="left" | +15/+10/+10 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Face Any Foe|Face Any Foe]]<br />
| 10<br />
|- class="noalt"<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills ([[Skill Points::4]] + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Balance Skill|Balance}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Climb Skill|Climb}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Craft Skill|Craft}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Diplomacy Skill|Diplomacy}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Disguise Skill|Disguise}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Gather Information Skill|Gather Information}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Hide Skill|Hide}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Jump Skill|Jump}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge}} (all skills, taken individually) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Listen Skill|Listen}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]])<br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Perform Skill|Perform}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Profession Skill|Profession}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Ride Skill|Ride}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Search Skill|Search}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Sleight of Hand Skill|Sleight of Hand}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Speak Language Skill|Speak Language}} (None), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Spot Skill|Spot}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Survival Skill|Survival}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Swim Skill|Swim}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the Soldier.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A Soldier is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as the racial weapons of any race mentioned in one of their Combat Styles. A Soldier is proficient with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armors in addition to Shields and Tower Shields. <br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Soldier Maneuvers}}:''' As a Soldier gains class levels they learn how to perform amazing maneuvers of daring-do and general badassery which are collectively called "Maneuvers." A Maneuver takes a [[SRD:Standard Action|Standard Action]] and is an Extraordinary ability. Many of the Soldier's [[#Stances|Stances]] specifically impact the Soldier's special Soldier Maneuvers, and that refers to these and not just any attack action or full attack they happen to make.<br />
<br />
A Soldier has an Initiator level equal to their class level. A Soldier learns one maneuver each odd-numbered Soldier level, but they can also abandon any number of maneuvers they already learned whenever they gain a level of any class and learn new maneuvers that they qualify for. Most Soldier Maneuvers allow the character to make a standard attack modified in some fashion. If they are using a double weapon with which they are proficient or two finesseable weapons, they may instead make one standard attack with each weapon (adding only half their Strength bonus to the off-hand weapon), but any special maneuver effects that trigger on damage only trigger once if either or both attacks hit.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Secrets of Battle}}:''' A Soldier adds their Intelligence Modifier (if positive) to their attack rolls, up to a maximum bonus equal to their Soldier level.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Stances}}:''' While the Soldier is not flatfooted, they may engage a Stance at the cost of one Swift Action per round. Each Stance is usually based on the unique fighting techniques of one of the world's armies that the Soldier has trained in, fought with, or researched. Each Stance is procedurally generated, allowing the character to gain the benefit of their Intelligence bonus to something they don't normally get to do and get a special additional bonus based on the racial combat styles they are emulating. Each Stance also needs a ''name'', which can be generated on the chart at the end of this document. A Soldier gains one stance every level.<br />
<br />
:'''Basic Bonuses:'''<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to weapon damage.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Armor Class.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Saving Throws.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Strength and Dexterity based Skill Checks.<br />
:* Gain Spell Resistance of 5 + Level + Intelligence Modifier.<br />
<br />
:'''Basic Race List:'''<br />
:* Orc: The character is considered to be one size category larger for purposes where that would be good such as carrying capacity, using weapons one handed, and tripping.<br />
:* Drow: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and cause 2 points of Strength damage.<br />
:* Dwarf: The Soldier resists things with great facility. If presented with a Fortitude or Willpower save for partial, the character receives the partial effect on a failed save and no effect at all on a successful save.<br />
:* Elf: The Soldier can take their Standard Action in the middle of their Move Action, continuing their movement after the Standard Action is resolved.<br />
:* Goblin: The Soldier can redirect any attacks against their mount to themselves, and may choose to have their mount discounted from an area of effect if they are are still within it.<br />
:* Hobgoblin: The Soldier does not generate the -10 penalty to [[SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently]] for moving quickly, nor do they suffer the -20 penalty to Move Silently for engaging in combat.<br />
:* Halfling: The Soldier can throw any weapon they are proficient with to full effect as if they had made a melee attack with it – even for Manuvers that require a melee attack to function. A light weapon has a range increment of 30', a one-handed weapon has a range of 20', and a two handed weapon has a range increment of 10' (multiplied by the creature's base reach). A weapon thrown in this way gains a +2 bonus to hit for the what-the-crap factor.<br />
:* Gnome: When the Soldier inflicts damage onto a creature, that creature cannot see the Soldier until the beginning of the Soldier's next turn. It's like they were invisible, or crawling around underneath them or something.<br />
:* Kobold: When the soldier inflicts damage on a target they may as a free action place something that they have as a stored item in the target's square. Common choices include smoke sticks, thunderstones, caltrops, and feather tokens.<br />
:* Human: The Soldier can use any weapon or armor no matter how obscure without problem. The character is considered proficient with any weapons or armors even if exotic or improvised. The character also ignores armor check penalties and armor stealth penalties.<br />
:* Aasimar: The Soldier ignores Concealment (but not Full Concealment) unless that Concealment comes from poor lighting. Full Concealment is treated as regular Concealment unless it comes from total darkness.<br />
:* Tiefling: The Soldier has Full Concealment if poor lighting would give them Concealment.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Hardened Survivor}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 2nd level Soldier has resigned themselves to living in crappy conditions on both sides of a siege, and resigned themselves to eating things that a less martially oriented person would refuse out of hand. They may add their Constitution modifier to their [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] checks instead of their Wisdom Modifier. They also increase their death margin (the number of hit points past -10 it takes to kill them) by their ranks in Survival.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Wearing Shoes}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 3rd level Soldier really understands how Charlie thinks. Also how K'zrtlk thinks. And they can totally emulate those dudes. The Soldier gains a bonus to [[SRD:Disguise Skill|Disguise]] equal to their ranks in Disguise, and suffers no penalty for disguising themselves as a different race.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Lucky}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' It's amazing how a lucky veteran keeps coming back from amazingly dangerous situations. A 3rd level Soldier gains a luck bonus to their saving throws equal to their Constitution modifier, to a maximum of their Class Level. They also never have to make saves against massive damage.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Mighty Stances}}:''' From 4th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Mighty Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Mighty Races:'''<br />
:* Dark Creeper: The Soldier sees in any darkness, even magical darkness, like a frickin Devil.<br />
:* Gnoll: Enemies who are flanked by the Soldier are considered to be in difficult terrain and cannot take a 5' step.<br />
:* Skulk: The Soldier has Concealment, and people have to deal with a 20% miss chance. This provides a +4 bonus to Hide checks.<br />
:* Kuo-Toa: Whenever the Soldier is attacked in melee with a weapon, they may make a free melee attack roll. If they score higher on their roll than the attacker did, the attacker drops their weapon. The original attack still hits or misses normally.<br />
:* Lizardfolk: When attacking from Concealment or Cover, the target is denied their Dexterity bonus as if the Soldier was attacking from Full Concealment.<br />
:* Myconid: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + {{1/2}} Level + Int Modifier) or be confused for 1 round / level.<br />
:* Bugbear: If the Soldier hits a target with a Maneuver and that opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC or flanked, the Soldier inflicts an extra d6 of sneak attack damage per 2 class levels.<br />
:* Thri-Kreen: The Soldier can leap for stupidly ridiculous distances. Each round, the Soldier can make an additional jump with a bonus equal to their level as a free action. This jump is not limited by height and any movement is completed that round, does not provoke attacks of opportunities, and does not count against the character's normal movement.<br />
:* Sahuagin: The Soldier can breathe water or air as whichever one would be preferable, and has a Land and Swim Speed equal to their highest of either.<br />
:* Troglodyte: Opponents who are [[SRD:Nauseated|nauseated]] in your threatened range do not get a Move Action and all attacks against them receive a +2 bonus to-hit and damage.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Veteran's Experience}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 5th level Soldier has seen crazy crap and come out craftier for it. They gain an enhancement bonus to their [[SRD:Intelligence|Intelligence]] equal to one third of their character level (round up).<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Leader of Men}}:''' At 6th level, a Soldier gains [[Command (3.5e Feat)|Command]] as a bonus feat. If they already have Command, they can take another [[Concept:3.5e Leadership Feats|&#91;Leadership&#93;]] Feat that they qualify for instead.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Boots Keep Walking}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At level 7 and again at levels 9, 11, and 13 a Soldier's experience fighting on the battlefields of the Heavy Metalish terrain that dots the D&D landscape grants them special abilities related to that terrain experience. Every time the Soldier gains one of these Terrain-based abilities they also gain a cumulative +2 bonus to all Survival tests as they are able to generalize their specific experiences into relevancies in other circumstances.<br />
<br />
:'''Terrain Powers:'''<br />
:* Cave Crawler: The Soldier suffers no penalty for squeezing. The Soldier's movement speed is not reduced during poor visibility.<br />
:* Cliff Jumper: The Soldier gains a Climb speed equal to half their land speed. The Soldier ignores difficult terrain caused by uneven stone.<br />
:* Ice Skater: The Soldier gains Energy Resistance to Cold equal to their Character Level. They ignore the effects of any decreased temperatures.<br />
:* Inferno Commando: The Soldier gains Energy Resistance to Fire equal to their Character Level. They ignore the effects of any increased temperatures.<br />
:* Jungle Fighter: The Soldier can move through difficult terrain caused by vegetation as if it wasn't there, counts cover from vegetation as if it was one stage better in both directions (so 50% cover would provide them a +6 AC bonus but only a +2 AC bonus to enemies), and does not take damage or get entangled from enchanted vegetation such as entangle or briar web.<br />
:* Planar Champion: The Soldier ignores planar traits that would suck for them such as "Lawfully Aligned" or "Prison Plane" &mdash; not the Gravity or Time traits.<br />
:* Swamp Beast: The Soldier is able to ignore difficult terrain that is caused by an area being water logged. Also they are immune to the [[SRD:Nauseated|nauseated]] condition.<br />
:* Waste Warrior: The Soldier takes twice as long to dehydrate and takes half damage from dessication effects. Also they take no damage from and their visibility is not impaired by dust storms, smoke clouds, ash rains, and any similar stuff.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Fantastic Stances}}:''' From 8th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Fantastic Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Fantastic Races:'''<br />
:* Ogre: If the Soldier inflicts damage with an Attack of Opportunity, the action that provoked the Attack of Opportunity is not completed.<br />
:* Gith: If any creature uses a [Teleport] or plane shift effect within the Soldier's line of sight, they may elect to immediately teleport to a point that is adjacent to the creature's new location. Creatures cannot use Psionic abilities defensively within the Soldier's threatened area.<br />
:* Yakfolk: All spells are considered to be on the Soldier's list for purposes of activating Spell Trigger items.<br />
:* Pixie: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier) or fall asleep for 1 minute / level.<br />
:* Kyton: The Soldier's threatened area extends for an extra 20' in all directions.<br />
:* Yuan-Ti: All of the Soldier's maneuvers come with a poison rider if they inflict damage at all. Victims suffer 2d4 points of Constitution damage from poison, with a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Con Modifier) for half damage.<br />
:* Doppelgänger: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier) or give up their surface thoughts ''[[SRD:Detect Thoughts|detect thoughts]]'' style. Also the character can change shape into the target as per whatever version of ''[[SRD:Alter Self|alter self]]'' you're using.<br />
:* Abeil: All enemies within the Soldier's threatened area suffer a penalty to their Will saves equal to the Soldier's Intelligence Modifier.<br />
:* Succubus: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier), or accept a ''[[SRD:Suggestion|suggestion]]''.<br />
:* Nerra: Any time the Soldier successfully negates a spell, or supernatural or spell-like ability targeted against them with a successful saving throw or spell resistance, the spell is reflected against the caster of the spell as per ''[[SRD:Spell Turning|spell turning]]''.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Meet Interesting People}}:''' At 10th level, the Soldier can add their [[SRD:Intelligence|Intelligence]] modifier to [[SRD:Charisma|Charisma]] checks.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Giant Stances}}:''' From 12th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Giant Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Giant Races:'''<br />
:* Ilithid: The Soldier can coup de grace a target who is [[SRD:Stunned|stunned]] as a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.<br />
:* Ettin: The Soldier can attack with two weapons when using a Maneuver, and they don't even have to be light or finesse-able weapons. If both attacks hit, any special effects that trigger on damage may occur twice. Both weapons use the Soldier's full Strength bonus.<br />
:* Stone Giant: The Soldier may catch or deflect a number of ranged weapons equal to their Intelligence modifier each turn.<br />
:* Fire Giant: The Soldier can cause a burst of fire damage every time they inflict damage with a Maneuver. This is a 15' burst that inflicts half as much damage as the attack inflicted and is centered on the target. It is all fire damage, and a Reflex save halves that damage.<br />
:* Slaad: The Soldier can giant frog at will.<br />
:* Eladrin: '''Not yet filled in!'''<br />
:* Troll: The Soldier has [[SRD:Regeneration|Regeneration]] of 1 hit point per round per level. Acid, Fire, starvation, and suffocation do normal damage.<br />
:* Vrock: When the Soldier performs a maneuver, all other creatures within 40' suffer 3d20 of Ultima damage, Fortitude save for half (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier).<br />
:* Osyluth: The Soldier sees through illusions and shape changing as per ''[[SRD:True Seeing|true seeing]]''.<br />
:* Justicator: The Soldier can redirect the target of a single target effect or attack to themselves if the original target is within the Soldier's Reach.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Logistics Master}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 14th level Soldier is a master of war and can manage supply lines intuitively. The Soldier can use their [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] skill to manage Logistics on any scale from the personal to the Imperial.<br />
<br />
'''''{{Anchor|Going Places}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' A 15th level Soldier can follow anything to anywhere. By touching something from another plane, they may ''[[SRD:Plane Shift|plane shift]]'' to the plane of the creature or object's origin. Since it is easy to touch yourself in D&D, a Soldier can always return to their own plane of origin. This can also be used to banish things to their home plane of existence, if they fail a Will save.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Epic Stances}}:''' From 16th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Epic Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Epic Races:'''<br />
:* Rakshasa: The Soldier is unaffected by spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities of 6th level or less, as if they were carrying a ''[[Greater Globe of Invulnerability (3.5e Spell)|greater globe of invulnerability]]'' around.<br />
:* Storm Giant: The Soldier is unaffected by weather effects. Also, whenever the Soldier inflicts damage with a Maneuver, they may strike any other targets (of their choice) within 60' with a lightning bolt that does half that much damage (Reflex Save for half again).<br />
:* Ethergaunt: Any time the Soldier strikes a target with a Maneuver, they may create an ''[[SRD:Antimagic Field|antimagic field]]'' that fills the 5' square they struck for one round.<br />
:* Archon: The damage inflicted by the Soldier's maneuvers may be converted entirely to Light damage.<br />
:* Deva: The Soldier may choose to cancel immunities to stun, sleep, or fear on targets within 30' of themselves.<br />
:* Marilith: The Soldier makes a number of additional standard attacks equal to their Intelligence modifier when they perform a maneuver. Any special effect that takes place if the maneuver inflicts damage takes place if at least one of the attacks inflicts damage.<br />
:* Gelugon: Any target damaged by the Soldier's Maneuvers is [[SRD:Slow|slowed]] for 1 round. Any time the Solder strikes a target who is [[SRD:Shaken|shaken]] or worse, the attack is a critical hit.<br />
:* Nycoloth: If the Soldier inflicts damage with a maneuver, they may use their attack or damage result as their Grapple result to immediately start a grapple against the same target.<br />
:* Quarut: The Soldier can take actions normally during time disturbances, and continues to get turns during ''[[SRD:Time Stop|time stop]]'' (if cast within long range of the Soldier). They may interact with things that are frozen in time (so they could, for example, perform a coup de grace on a target that was in ''[[SRD:Temporal Stasis|temporal stasis]]'').<br />
:* Anathema: The Soldier can generate an ''[[SRD:Antipathy|antipathy]]'' effect as a free action, once per round.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Mass Desertion}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' An 18th level Soldier is a dreaded thing. When he takes to the field, enemies know their cause is hopeless. Enemies of CR 8 or less who see the Soldier in the fray simply give up. They retreat or surrender as appropriate. This is not a fear effect, and extends to line of sight.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Face Any Foe}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The soldier has faced many enemies throughout his whole career, and knows exactly the right tactics to use against almost any foe. Once per day as a swift action, the level 20 soldier may replace a feat he possesses permanently with another feat, as long as the feat isn't a set bonus feat or a prerequisite for a class or other feat he possesses.<br />
<br />
==== Maneuvers ====<br />
<br />
In order to take a specific Strike you must have an Initiator Level sufficient to use it, meaning that half your Initiator Level (rounded up) must be at least the level of the proposed Maneuver.<br />
<br />
If there is a Save offered by a Soldier Strike, the DC is 10 + ½ Character Level + Constitution Modifier.<br />
<br />
===== Brutal Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits someone super hard with a melee attack. The attack does an extra d6 of damage. This bonus increases to 2d6 at 3rd level, 3d6 at 4th level, 4d6 at 6th level, 5d6 at 7th level, 7d6 at 8th level, 9d6 at 9th level, 11d6 at 10th level, 14d6 at 11th level, 16d6 at 12th level, 20d6 at 13th level, 100 points at 14th level, 110 points at 15th level, 125 points at 16th level, 150 points at 17th level, 175 points at 18th level, 200 points at 19th level, and 250 points of damage at 20th level.<br />
<br />
===== Looting Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier stabs a fool and pockets their things. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack and if it inflicts damage they can force the target to drop a weapon or other carried item. The Soldier can grab and store that item if they wish.<br />
<br />
===== Turtle World =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier attacks normally but hides themselves from harm. The Soldier makes a standard attack and has Energy Resistance to all energy types and DR/- equal to their Constitution modifier plus their Character Level until the beginning of their next turn if the attack inflicts damage.<br />
<br />
===== Blinding Blow =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes a foe in their eyes or whatever they see with. They make a standard attack and if they inflict damage the target must make a Fortitude save or be [[SRD:Blinded|blinded]].<br />
<br />
===== Knockdown =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes someone in a manner that knocks them right down. The Soldier makes a standard attack and if it inflicts damage, the target becomes [[SRD:Prone|prone]].<br />
<br />
===== Runaround =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier runs around and stabs someone from an unconventional direction. The Soldier moves their speed and then makes a standard melee attack at +2 to-hit. The Soldier gains a +2 bonus to AC until the beginning of their next turn.<br />
<br />
===== Delaying Tactics =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier feints and draws things out, unraveling time. The Soldier makes a standard attack. Every creature adjacent to the Soldier is ''[[SRD:Slow|slowed]]'' for a number of rounds equal to the Soldier's Character Level.<br />
<br />
===== Executioner =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier chops a dude's head right off and spits down the hole in the stump. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack and if he does any damage the target makes a Fortitude save or they die.<br />
<br />
===== Whirlwind =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier flips out and stabs everyone. The soldier makes a standard melee attack against every opponent they can reach. They may gain no more bonus cleave attacks than they have Intelligence modifier.<br />
<br />
===== Hurl Away =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an opponent and hurls them away from themselves. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack, and if it does any damage the target is also pushed away 5' for every point of Constition bonus the Soldier has. This works like a successful Bullrush except that the Soldier doesn't need to move to keep the victim moving.<br />
<br />
===== Lingering Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits the target with a cruel and lingering wound that disrupts their concentration. The Soldier makes a standard attack. The attack does double damage, and is considered to be ongoing damage for purposes of Concentration checks made in the following round.<br />
<br />
===== Mind Thwack =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier beats someone in the brain so hard that it creates a psychic resonance that incapacitates others. The Soldier makes a standard attack against a living, non-mindless creature and if he does any damage, all creatures except the Soldier within 10' of the target must make a Will save or be [[SRD:Stunned|stunned]] for 1d4 rounds<br />
<br />
===== Demoralizing Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits a target so ugly that it freaks out all of their allies. If the target takes any damage they are [[SRD:Sickened|sickened]] for the next minute. All enemies within line of sight must make a Will save or become [[SRD:Shakened|shakened]] for one round.<br />
<br />
===== Dimensional Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier reaches into the ether and tears the target a new one. The Soldier sees the invisible and then makes a standard attack that ignore Incorporeality and can strike Ethereal creatures. If the attack does any damage, the target is moved to the plane of existence that the Soldier is on and is no longer incorporeal for the next 2d4 rounds.<br />
<br />
===== Meteor Smash =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the ground so hard that everything just fucking explodes. All other creatures within 30' suffer 1d8/level of physical bludgeoning damage, Reflex save for half.<br />
<br />
===== Blade Rush =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier runs around his opponents and jacks them up. The Soldier moves their full move without provoking attacks of opportunity and makes a standard melee attack against every opponent who is within their threatened area at any point during their move. Each attack inflicts bonus damage equal to the maximum damage inflicted by the weapon's damage die (for example: 8 damage for a longsword or falchion). The character cannot gain bonus attacks from [[SRD:Cleave|Cleave]] or [[Horde Breaker (3.5e Feat)|Horde Breaker]] during this maneuver.<br />
<br />
===== Critical Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an opponent perfectly. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and if it hits it is a critical as if it had rolled a natural 20 and then confirmed.<br />
<br />
===== Hydra Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier makes a flurry of attacks. The character makes a number of standard attacks equal to their Intelligence modifier. These don't even have to be against the same target. Every time they get a critical hit, they get an additional attack.<br />
<br />
===== Doom Tunnel =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier hacks a corridor through whatever happens to be in front of him, whether that be air, rock or other people. He may move out to his full charge range and attack everyone who is in his path. If he fails to kill a target, they are shoved aside so he can keep moving. Any nonliving thing in the path is ''[[SRD:Disintegrate|disintegrated]]'', as per the spell.<br />
<br />
===== Earth Shaker =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the ground and the ground strikes everyone else. All other creatures touching the ground within 60' of the soldier take 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage per Character Level (Fortitude half). Those creatures that fail their saves are also partially buried in dirt. They are [[SRD:Prone|prone]] and [[SRD:Entangled|entangled]] until they can make an [[SRD:Escape Artist Skill|Escape Artist]] or size-modified Strength check with a DC of 15 + the Soldier's Constitution modifier as a Full Round Action (or burrow or teleport out).<br />
<br />
===== Heaven Piercer =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier stabs the sky hard enough to split it open and cause death to rain down upon everyone around. This requires line of sight to the sky, and causes all within 50 feet to take 1d8 Electricity damage per level (Reflex half). Additionally, the general other-dimensional doom raining down pushes creatures over, negates ranged attacks, and impedes flight within 50' of the Soldier until his next turn as per a [[SRD:Weather#Hurricane-Force Wind|Hurricane-Force Wind]]. In some planes of existence, a wounded sky may leak damage types other than lightning, such as fire or acid.<br />
<br />
===== Banishing Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier smashes the target out of existence. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and if the target suffers any damage it is sent to its home plane, where it is then ''[[SRD:Dimensional Anchor|dimensional anchored]]'' for a day. The soldier may travel with the target if they choose.<br />
<br />
===== Hamster Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the target in such a manner that they become a small rodent. The soldier makes a standard attack, and if any damage is inflicted, the target is now a harmless hamster, as per ''[[SRD:Baleful Polymorph|baleful polymorph]]''. Some Soldiers learn similar attacks that transform the target into other things.<br />
<br />
===== Harrying Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier may take a 5' step that teleports to a space adjacent to a creature that was within short range of the Soldier ''last turn''. The Soldier need not know where the target has gone since then, and can follow any distance to any plane of existence without fail. The Soldier then makes a standard attack.<br />
<br />
===== Extra Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier makes a standard attack as a free action. This may be used once per round, and may be used on other creatures' initiative counts.<br />
<br />
===== Perfect Killer =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an enemy and they die. The Soldier makes a standard attack against a target, if the target suffers any damage it dies. This is a [Death] effect.<br />
<br />
===== World Slaying Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier attacks every creature they can see. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and this attack is resolved against every target they choose to designate out to line of sight. Make one attack roll and compare to each target's AC, but if miss chances apply, roll for each separately.<br />
<br />
<br />
==== Naming Your Stances ====<br />
<br />
When you name your styles, be sure to have the representative species name in there somewhere, and also generate an adjective and a noun to name the stance. The racial word can go in the first, second, or third position depending on what sounds better. So when making a Drow style, you could have the "Underhanded Grandeur of the Drow" or the "Drow Invincible Method" or the "Informal Drow Approach."<br />
<br />
Pick an adjective and a noun, or roll on the following table:<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
! Roll !! Adjective !! Noun<br />
|-<br />
| 1 || Rising || Stance<br />
|-<br />
| 2 || Sweltering || Dance<br />
|-<br />
| 3 || Sneaky || Technique<br />
|-<br />
| 4 || Underhanded || Style<br />
|-<br />
| 5 || Virtuous || Grandeur<br />
|-<br />
| 6 || Wonderful || Defense<br />
|-<br />
| 7 || Glorious || Manner<br />
|-<br />
| 8 || Fantastic || Attack<br />
|-<br />
| 9 || Dark || Idiosyncrasy<br />
|-<br />
| 10 || Wicked || Tactic<br />
|-<br />
| 11 || Awesome || Maneuver<br />
|-<br />
| 12 || Splendid || Pattern<br />
|-<br />
| 13 || Informal || Mode<br />
|-<br />
| 14 || Shadow || Method<br />
|-<br />
| 15 || Sexy || Mean<br />
|-<br />
| 16 || Impenetrable || System<br />
|-<br />
| 17 || Invincible || Way<br />
|-<br />
| 18 || Inflammable || Approach<br />
|-<br />
| 19 || Sordid || Attitude<br />
|-<br />
| 20 || Wrathful || Craft<br />
|}<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229250Talk:Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T03:57:51Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Miscellaneous Queries */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Leggo My Eg--err, Name ==<br />
<br />
So what exactly was the point of renaming my [[Warrior (3.5e Class)|Soldier]] and taking the name for this class? I was using the name for a very specific reason [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soldier_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics_A2%29].<br />
<br />
:Ahh, I get it now. I'll put your old version back, then. Just give me a minute to figure out how to change this class... [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:08, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you're wondering why I did it, it was because this class was made under this name months ago and I've been waiting for it to be finished (which it now is) to upload it here. The reason I moved the old name was, to be perfectly honest, because it was a very "generic"-feeling class and didn't seem to be tied to the soldier name in any way at all (I had no idea it was FF-based, which explains the name). So yeah. Sorry. I should have asked first. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:14, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Capstone ==<br />
<br />
'''Indomitable Nightmare:''' while the class having an actual class feature at 20 is good, I'm under the impression that you managed to make something too good for even that - a strike tends to be a pretty battle-changing move all by itself, 3 at once seems ... ridiculous. Since I highly suspect ripping the warblade off doesn't matter at all in Tome, dual-stancing might actually be worthwhile even at 20, and not '''too''' crazy. That, plus the reach increase, possibly.<br />
<br />
: While many strikes are battle-changing, they're usually battle-changing... against one foe. Compare to a similar wizard-level class, the wizard, who can take out a half-dozen enemies with a single spell, or the soulborn who, once a minute, can wipe out all enemies within 100'. It's far more comparable to either of those than simply being able to be in two stances at the same time. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 17:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: While I never agreed with the old and IMO false point of the original Tome warriors being better than spellcasters, I do think the recent incarnum classes + soldier by Frank are, by virtue of being quite better than original Tome classes, actually better combatants than spellcasters (and perhaps those with UMD are their equals out of combat as well), which's too much, so I wouldn't consider the soulborn a good data point. As for wizard: in Tome games, it seems actually kinda hard to land all of those (multiple at a time - single ones should be easy enough) kills on enemies that do matter, between short ranges, higher saves in Tome and an expectation of death/mind-affecting/etc. immunity. Meanwhile, the proposed level 20 soldier can get pretty much anywhere relevant and attack (doom tunnel/harrying strike, depending on circustances), attack everyone in sight (world-slaying strike), then morph the most relevant target into a hamster almost without fail - and all 3 strikes may add, say, sleep with a duration of "you die", if needed. Also: if the class held its own up to level 17 (which Frank's original seems to imply), it basically holds its own through 20 as well, as the changes actually are ... minimal, especially with regards to a class that already had an at-will resource model (i.e. it doesn't even "need" more 9th-level spells/day as a wizard "might").<br />
<br />
::: Ummm... yeah, Foil Action is still better than anything this class or the soulborn has to bring to the table. It's actually better than spellcasters, since it doesn't even grant a save against its effects, doesn't suffer from SR, and enemies can't teleport away from you to break off (you'll just foil that as well). And I wasn't talking about just Save or Dies. I'm talking about Time Stop->Piranha Trap, dealing a good 100d6ish of damage to multiple enemies as a force effect with no save. Let's see most other characters top that. Even with all the things this gets, the Tome Fighter is still better. And capstones aren't there to "hold up". They're there because they're cool, and because it's something for a character to look forward to when they reach the pinnacle of their power, and a reason not to automatically multiclass into something else. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I also think that the level 20 ability, while a good starting point, is probably too good. We need to break out of this cycle of wanting to top the last thing that was made. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Foil: range limitations, doesn't affect actions started outside, doesn't break full attacks, and AFAIK nothing says it can't be broken by other immediate actions/contingencies. And there's piles of soldier stuff the fighter doesn't ever see (and does miss), not to mention it having a rogue minus UMD shoved in (skills, bugbear stance). Lastly, I should add: I am not and have not been actually trying to get anyone to nerf the soldier - I'm just arguing against a completely off-scale power boost to a class that at least doesn't need any (Level 20 class feature? Hell yes. Absurd vertical power boost? Hell no.). Piranha trap: yeah, I also didn't mention the incantatrix, because to top that you'd pretty much need a "normal" spellcaster/(any) Tome class and +200 to all abilities and wish at will (and it might not be enough, IIRC), and I intend to keep ignoring things that don't have a place in Tome. 20th level in general: a) if class features there don't need to "hold up", they need much less to be stupidly huge boosts; b) not multiclassing isn't "desirable" and doesn't need a "reward"; you do it if your concept is single-classed and don't if it isn't, period.<br />
::::: Surgo: pretty much - need I say "Koumei", BTW?<br />
::::: (Someone tell me if I'm being too long-winded for a wiki talk page, please.)<br />
<br />
:::::: This capstone: 20' reach limitation, only reliably attacks 3 enemies (and can still miss), has to move to get close enough, doesn't stop enemies from roflpwning on their turn, and a few others. I'm not seeing how this is offscale. And Tome was made to keep up with high-level wizards using their abilities to the max. This capstone is good for taking down a single enemy, or three enemies if they're clustered together and can't teleport out of your reach as an immediate action (which the fighter could foil), but still builds on their core abilities. And concepts have nothing to do with it--this is mechanics, not flavor, and there should be an incentive to continue taking levels in a class. When there isn't, that's when you get dead levels and classes that are only X levels long. The capstone may seem powerful, but A. It's supposed to be fairly powerful--this is level 20 we're talking about, and beyond that you're going into lala-epic land, and B. It's still not nearly as powerful as what many of the other wizard-level classes can pull off--without PrCs too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 08:10, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: 19th-level soldier having 5' reach: ROFLMAO. "Close enough" can contain "line of sight" and "'''wherever''' some guy went". And Tome wasn't made to cope with shapechange, gate, miracle, incantatrixes (in order: already fixed, 2 scheduled for fixing back when the original authors worked on it, and simply ignored) and the like, if you think that. And the reason why you go to 20 in whatever class is because you get an ability that expresses your concept. Not "a better ability than everyone else gets", "an ability, period". Reality check: "Wizard 20: You can cast 3 spells at the time and slot costs of one." - and this is '''only''' a strawman at all if you believe soldiers are also underpowered at levels lower than 20, in which (absurd) case what it'd need would be an overall fix, not a ridiculous class feature that "fixes" all of 1 level out of however many are underpowered (definitionally at least 4, since basically every benchmark class got all of its things that matter by 17)<br />
<br />
::::::::Just saying that I've sort of stayed out of this discussion because I'm busy, but I'm thinking of a fix. Also, I don't really want to name names -- we're ''all'' guilty of it at some point or another. Some more than others. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Side note: Gate is partially covered by the fixes to [Calling] spells in Tome of Fiends. And if/when the Tome of Virtue is done, or before, we already have a Miracle fix. So that's 2 covered and one pending, and one ignored. --[[User:Quantumboost|Quantumboost]] 19:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: Well-aware. That's why I'd refused to accept piranha trap as data - things that crappy (e.g. weird time stop uses) are things that need fixing. As already done for a number of them, and visibly scheduled for others.<br />
<br />
== Epic Race: Quarut ==<br />
<br />
Being able to act during other people's time stops is beyond even regular wizard-level powerful I think. If you have 3 spellcaster buddies, you get 3d4+3 rounds to beat the snot out of the enemies. I figure the design was intended to counter enemy time stops. Instead, it makes your own spellcasters' time stops ridiculously powerful (and is also a good counter). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Is this... in the right talk page? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes. Look under the "Epic Stances" class feature. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, didn't see that one *nod* That said, that's wizard-level shenanigans for you *shrug* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Obv Time Stop doesn't actually freeze time, therefore you can't interact with anyone during the Time Stop except the one who cast the Time Stop. --TK-Squared 15:57, March 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: The (original, at TGD, included) text disproves that. Yeah, I guess 2 instances of "not" are in order. {{unsigned|187.107.35.242}}<br />
<br />
==Nitpicking==<br />
Just nitpicking here, "subdual" damage has not been used since 3.0, it's "nonlethal." [[User:Downzorz|Downzorz]] ([[User talk:Downzorz|talk]]) 12:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Miscellaneous Queries ==<br />
<br />
1. The Yuan-Ti stance uses a Con-based save instead of Int-based, and is the only stance that does this. Would it be kosher to change this, or is it on purpose?<br />
<br />
2. Does the soldier choose the item for Looting Strike?<br />
<br />
3. Is Executioner a [Death] effect? That's one heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
4. Would it be out of place to change the text from Brutal Strike into a table?<br />
<br />
5. Does a "standard attack" count as an attack action (and thus can it be used for things like trip attacks?). Like could a soldier use Extra Strike and trip someone out of turn?<br />
<br />
6. Does the slow on Delaying Tactics allow a save? Another heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
7. Whirlwind lists that the soldier can get no more "bonus cleave attacks than they have Intelligence modifier". In this case, what is a cleave attack? Is it like the attacks from Horde Breaker or is it the attacks from the Whirlwind strike?--[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 03:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229249Talk:Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T03:51:14Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Miscellaneous Queries */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Leggo My Eg--err, Name ==<br />
<br />
So what exactly was the point of renaming my [[Warrior (3.5e Class)|Soldier]] and taking the name for this class? I was using the name for a very specific reason [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soldier_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics_A2%29].<br />
<br />
:Ahh, I get it now. I'll put your old version back, then. Just give me a minute to figure out how to change this class... [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:08, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you're wondering why I did it, it was because this class was made under this name months ago and I've been waiting for it to be finished (which it now is) to upload it here. The reason I moved the old name was, to be perfectly honest, because it was a very "generic"-feeling class and didn't seem to be tied to the soldier name in any way at all (I had no idea it was FF-based, which explains the name). So yeah. Sorry. I should have asked first. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:14, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Capstone ==<br />
<br />
'''Indomitable Nightmare:''' while the class having an actual class feature at 20 is good, I'm under the impression that you managed to make something too good for even that - a strike tends to be a pretty battle-changing move all by itself, 3 at once seems ... ridiculous. Since I highly suspect ripping the warblade off doesn't matter at all in Tome, dual-stancing might actually be worthwhile even at 20, and not '''too''' crazy. That, plus the reach increase, possibly.<br />
<br />
: While many strikes are battle-changing, they're usually battle-changing... against one foe. Compare to a similar wizard-level class, the wizard, who can take out a half-dozen enemies with a single spell, or the soulborn who, once a minute, can wipe out all enemies within 100'. It's far more comparable to either of those than simply being able to be in two stances at the same time. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 17:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: While I never agreed with the old and IMO false point of the original Tome warriors being better than spellcasters, I do think the recent incarnum classes + soldier by Frank are, by virtue of being quite better than original Tome classes, actually better combatants than spellcasters (and perhaps those with UMD are their equals out of combat as well), which's too much, so I wouldn't consider the soulborn a good data point. As for wizard: in Tome games, it seems actually kinda hard to land all of those (multiple at a time - single ones should be easy enough) kills on enemies that do matter, between short ranges, higher saves in Tome and an expectation of death/mind-affecting/etc. immunity. Meanwhile, the proposed level 20 soldier can get pretty much anywhere relevant and attack (doom tunnel/harrying strike, depending on circustances), attack everyone in sight (world-slaying strike), then morph the most relevant target into a hamster almost without fail - and all 3 strikes may add, say, sleep with a duration of "you die", if needed. Also: if the class held its own up to level 17 (which Frank's original seems to imply), it basically holds its own through 20 as well, as the changes actually are ... minimal, especially with regards to a class that already had an at-will resource model (i.e. it doesn't even "need" more 9th-level spells/day as a wizard "might").<br />
<br />
::: Ummm... yeah, Foil Action is still better than anything this class or the soulborn has to bring to the table. It's actually better than spellcasters, since it doesn't even grant a save against its effects, doesn't suffer from SR, and enemies can't teleport away from you to break off (you'll just foil that as well). And I wasn't talking about just Save or Dies. I'm talking about Time Stop->Piranha Trap, dealing a good 100d6ish of damage to multiple enemies as a force effect with no save. Let's see most other characters top that. Even with all the things this gets, the Tome Fighter is still better. And capstones aren't there to "hold up". They're there because they're cool, and because it's something for a character to look forward to when they reach the pinnacle of their power, and a reason not to automatically multiclass into something else. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I also think that the level 20 ability, while a good starting point, is probably too good. We need to break out of this cycle of wanting to top the last thing that was made. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Foil: range limitations, doesn't affect actions started outside, doesn't break full attacks, and AFAIK nothing says it can't be broken by other immediate actions/contingencies. And there's piles of soldier stuff the fighter doesn't ever see (and does miss), not to mention it having a rogue minus UMD shoved in (skills, bugbear stance). Lastly, I should add: I am not and have not been actually trying to get anyone to nerf the soldier - I'm just arguing against a completely off-scale power boost to a class that at least doesn't need any (Level 20 class feature? Hell yes. Absurd vertical power boost? Hell no.). Piranha trap: yeah, I also didn't mention the incantatrix, because to top that you'd pretty much need a "normal" spellcaster/(any) Tome class and +200 to all abilities and wish at will (and it might not be enough, IIRC), and I intend to keep ignoring things that don't have a place in Tome. 20th level in general: a) if class features there don't need to "hold up", they need much less to be stupidly huge boosts; b) not multiclassing isn't "desirable" and doesn't need a "reward"; you do it if your concept is single-classed and don't if it isn't, period.<br />
::::: Surgo: pretty much - need I say "Koumei", BTW?<br />
::::: (Someone tell me if I'm being too long-winded for a wiki talk page, please.)<br />
<br />
:::::: This capstone: 20' reach limitation, only reliably attacks 3 enemies (and can still miss), has to move to get close enough, doesn't stop enemies from roflpwning on their turn, and a few others. I'm not seeing how this is offscale. And Tome was made to keep up with high-level wizards using their abilities to the max. This capstone is good for taking down a single enemy, or three enemies if they're clustered together and can't teleport out of your reach as an immediate action (which the fighter could foil), but still builds on their core abilities. And concepts have nothing to do with it--this is mechanics, not flavor, and there should be an incentive to continue taking levels in a class. When there isn't, that's when you get dead levels and classes that are only X levels long. The capstone may seem powerful, but A. It's supposed to be fairly powerful--this is level 20 we're talking about, and beyond that you're going into lala-epic land, and B. It's still not nearly as powerful as what many of the other wizard-level classes can pull off--without PrCs too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 08:10, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: 19th-level soldier having 5' reach: ROFLMAO. "Close enough" can contain "line of sight" and "'''wherever''' some guy went". And Tome wasn't made to cope with shapechange, gate, miracle, incantatrixes (in order: already fixed, 2 scheduled for fixing back when the original authors worked on it, and simply ignored) and the like, if you think that. And the reason why you go to 20 in whatever class is because you get an ability that expresses your concept. Not "a better ability than everyone else gets", "an ability, period". Reality check: "Wizard 20: You can cast 3 spells at the time and slot costs of one." - and this is '''only''' a strawman at all if you believe soldiers are also underpowered at levels lower than 20, in which (absurd) case what it'd need would be an overall fix, not a ridiculous class feature that "fixes" all of 1 level out of however many are underpowered (definitionally at least 4, since basically every benchmark class got all of its things that matter by 17)<br />
<br />
::::::::Just saying that I've sort of stayed out of this discussion because I'm busy, but I'm thinking of a fix. Also, I don't really want to name names -- we're ''all'' guilty of it at some point or another. Some more than others. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Side note: Gate is partially covered by the fixes to [Calling] spells in Tome of Fiends. And if/when the Tome of Virtue is done, or before, we already have a Miracle fix. So that's 2 covered and one pending, and one ignored. --[[User:Quantumboost|Quantumboost]] 19:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: Well-aware. That's why I'd refused to accept piranha trap as data - things that crappy (e.g. weird time stop uses) are things that need fixing. As already done for a number of them, and visibly scheduled for others.<br />
<br />
== Epic Race: Quarut ==<br />
<br />
Being able to act during other people's time stops is beyond even regular wizard-level powerful I think. If you have 3 spellcaster buddies, you get 3d4+3 rounds to beat the snot out of the enemies. I figure the design was intended to counter enemy time stops. Instead, it makes your own spellcasters' time stops ridiculously powerful (and is also a good counter). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Is this... in the right talk page? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes. Look under the "Epic Stances" class feature. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, didn't see that one *nod* That said, that's wizard-level shenanigans for you *shrug* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Obv Time Stop doesn't actually freeze time, therefore you can't interact with anyone during the Time Stop except the one who cast the Time Stop. --TK-Squared 15:57, March 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: The (original, at TGD, included) text disproves that. Yeah, I guess 2 instances of "not" are in order. {{unsigned|187.107.35.242}}<br />
<br />
==Nitpicking==<br />
Just nitpicking here, "subdual" damage has not been used since 3.0, it's "nonlethal." [[User:Downzorz|Downzorz]] ([[User talk:Downzorz|talk]]) 12:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Miscellaneous Queries ==<br />
<br />
1. The Yuan-Ti stance uses a Con-based save instead of Int-based, and is the only stance that does this. Would it be kosher to change this, or is it on purpose?<br />
<br />
2. Does the soldier choose the item for Looting Strike?<br />
<br />
3. Is Executioner a [Death] effect? That's one heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
4. Would it be out of place to change the text from Brutal Strike into a table?<br />
<br />
5. Does a "standard attack" count as an attack action (and thus can it be used for things like trip attacks?). Like could a soldier use Extra Strike and trip someone out of turn?<br />
<br />
6. Does the slow on Delaying Tactics allow a save? Another heck of a strike. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 03:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229248Talk:Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T03:19:54Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Miscellaneous Queries */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Leggo My Eg--err, Name ==<br />
<br />
So what exactly was the point of renaming my [[Warrior (3.5e Class)|Soldier]] and taking the name for this class? I was using the name for a very specific reason [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Soldier_%28Final_Fantasy_Tactics_A2%29].<br />
<br />
:Ahh, I get it now. I'll put your old version back, then. Just give me a minute to figure out how to change this class... [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:08, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::If you're wondering why I did it, it was because this class was made under this name months ago and I've been waiting for it to be finished (which it now is) to upload it here. The reason I moved the old name was, to be perfectly honest, because it was a very "generic"-feeling class and didn't seem to be tied to the soldier name in any way at all (I had no idea it was FF-based, which explains the name). So yeah. Sorry. I should have asked first. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:14, March 28, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Capstone ==<br />
<br />
'''Indomitable Nightmare:''' while the class having an actual class feature at 20 is good, I'm under the impression that you managed to make something too good for even that - a strike tends to be a pretty battle-changing move all by itself, 3 at once seems ... ridiculous. Since I highly suspect ripping the warblade off doesn't matter at all in Tome, dual-stancing might actually be worthwhile even at 20, and not '''too''' crazy. That, plus the reach increase, possibly.<br />
<br />
: While many strikes are battle-changing, they're usually battle-changing... against one foe. Compare to a similar wizard-level class, the wizard, who can take out a half-dozen enemies with a single spell, or the soulborn who, once a minute, can wipe out all enemies within 100'. It's far more comparable to either of those than simply being able to be in two stances at the same time. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 17:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: While I never agreed with the old and IMO false point of the original Tome warriors being better than spellcasters, I do think the recent incarnum classes + soldier by Frank are, by virtue of being quite better than original Tome classes, actually better combatants than spellcasters (and perhaps those with UMD are their equals out of combat as well), which's too much, so I wouldn't consider the soulborn a good data point. As for wizard: in Tome games, it seems actually kinda hard to land all of those (multiple at a time - single ones should be easy enough) kills on enemies that do matter, between short ranges, higher saves in Tome and an expectation of death/mind-affecting/etc. immunity. Meanwhile, the proposed level 20 soldier can get pretty much anywhere relevant and attack (doom tunnel/harrying strike, depending on circustances), attack everyone in sight (world-slaying strike), then morph the most relevant target into a hamster almost without fail - and all 3 strikes may add, say, sleep with a duration of "you die", if needed. Also: if the class held its own up to level 17 (which Frank's original seems to imply), it basically holds its own through 20 as well, as the changes actually are ... minimal, especially with regards to a class that already had an at-will resource model (i.e. it doesn't even "need" more 9th-level spells/day as a wizard "might").<br />
<br />
::: Ummm... yeah, Foil Action is still better than anything this class or the soulborn has to bring to the table. It's actually better than spellcasters, since it doesn't even grant a save against its effects, doesn't suffer from SR, and enemies can't teleport away from you to break off (you'll just foil that as well). And I wasn't talking about just Save or Dies. I'm talking about Time Stop->Piranha Trap, dealing a good 100d6ish of damage to multiple enemies as a force effect with no save. Let's see most other characters top that. Even with all the things this gets, the Tome Fighter is still better. And capstones aren't there to "hold up". They're there because they're cool, and because it's something for a character to look forward to when they reach the pinnacle of their power, and a reason not to automatically multiclass into something else. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I also think that the level 20 ability, while a good starting point, is probably too good. We need to break out of this cycle of wanting to top the last thing that was made. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:09, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: Foil: range limitations, doesn't affect actions started outside, doesn't break full attacks, and AFAIK nothing says it can't be broken by other immediate actions/contingencies. And there's piles of soldier stuff the fighter doesn't ever see (and does miss), not to mention it having a rogue minus UMD shoved in (skills, bugbear stance). Lastly, I should add: I am not and have not been actually trying to get anyone to nerf the soldier - I'm just arguing against a completely off-scale power boost to a class that at least doesn't need any (Level 20 class feature? Hell yes. Absurd vertical power boost? Hell no.). Piranha trap: yeah, I also didn't mention the incantatrix, because to top that you'd pretty much need a "normal" spellcaster/(any) Tome class and +200 to all abilities and wish at will (and it might not be enough, IIRC), and I intend to keep ignoring things that don't have a place in Tome. 20th level in general: a) if class features there don't need to "hold up", they need much less to be stupidly huge boosts; b) not multiclassing isn't "desirable" and doesn't need a "reward"; you do it if your concept is single-classed and don't if it isn't, period.<br />
::::: Surgo: pretty much - need I say "Koumei", BTW?<br />
::::: (Someone tell me if I'm being too long-winded for a wiki talk page, please.)<br />
<br />
:::::: This capstone: 20' reach limitation, only reliably attacks 3 enemies (and can still miss), has to move to get close enough, doesn't stop enemies from roflpwning on their turn, and a few others. I'm not seeing how this is offscale. And Tome was made to keep up with high-level wizards using their abilities to the max. This capstone is good for taking down a single enemy, or three enemies if they're clustered together and can't teleport out of your reach as an immediate action (which the fighter could foil), but still builds on their core abilities. And concepts have nothing to do with it--this is mechanics, not flavor, and there should be an incentive to continue taking levels in a class. When there isn't, that's when you get dead levels and classes that are only X levels long. The capstone may seem powerful, but A. It's supposed to be fairly powerful--this is level 20 we're talking about, and beyond that you're going into lala-epic land, and B. It's still not nearly as powerful as what many of the other wizard-level classes can pull off--without PrCs too. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 08:10, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::: 19th-level soldier having 5' reach: ROFLMAO. "Close enough" can contain "line of sight" and "'''wherever''' some guy went". And Tome wasn't made to cope with shapechange, gate, miracle, incantatrixes (in order: already fixed, 2 scheduled for fixing back when the original authors worked on it, and simply ignored) and the like, if you think that. And the reason why you go to 20 in whatever class is because you get an ability that expresses your concept. Not "a better ability than everyone else gets", "an ability, period". Reality check: "Wizard 20: You can cast 3 spells at the time and slot costs of one." - and this is '''only''' a strawman at all if you believe soldiers are also underpowered at levels lower than 20, in which (absurd) case what it'd need would be an overall fix, not a ridiculous class feature that "fixes" all of 1 level out of however many are underpowered (definitionally at least 4, since basically every benchmark class got all of its things that matter by 17)<br />
<br />
::::::::Just saying that I've sort of stayed out of this discussion because I'm busy, but I'm thinking of a fix. Also, I don't really want to name names -- we're ''all'' guilty of it at some point or another. Some more than others. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:59, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::Side note: Gate is partially covered by the fixes to [Calling] spells in Tome of Fiends. And if/when the Tome of Virtue is done, or before, we already have a Miracle fix. So that's 2 covered and one pending, and one ignored. --[[User:Quantumboost|Quantumboost]] 19:27, March 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: Well-aware. That's why I'd refused to accept piranha trap as data - things that crappy (e.g. weird time stop uses) are things that need fixing. As already done for a number of them, and visibly scheduled for others.<br />
<br />
== Epic Race: Quarut ==<br />
<br />
Being able to act during other people's time stops is beyond even regular wizard-level powerful I think. If you have 3 spellcaster buddies, you get 3d4+3 rounds to beat the snot out of the enemies. I figure the design was intended to counter enemy time stops. Instead, it makes your own spellcasters' time stops ridiculously powerful (and is also a good counter). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Is this... in the right talk page? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yes. Look under the "Epic Stances" class feature. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Ah, didn't see that one *nod* That said, that's wizard-level shenanigans for you *shrug* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 19:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: Obv Time Stop doesn't actually freeze time, therefore you can't interact with anyone during the Time Stop except the one who cast the Time Stop. --TK-Squared 15:57, March 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: The (original, at TGD, included) text disproves that. Yeah, I guess 2 instances of "not" are in order. {{unsigned|187.107.35.242}}<br />
<br />
==Nitpicking==<br />
Just nitpicking here, "subdual" damage has not been used since 3.0, it's "nonlethal." [[User:Downzorz|Downzorz]] ([[User talk:Downzorz|talk]]) 12:49, 4 January 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Miscellaneous Queries ==<br />
<br />
1. The Yuan-Ti stance uses a Con-based save instead of Int-based, and is the only stance that does this. Would it be kosher to change this, or is it on purpose?<br />
<br />
2. Does the soldier choose the item for Looting Strike?<br />
<br />
3. Is Executioner a [Death] effect? That's one heck of a strike.<br />
<br />
4. Would it be out of place to change the text from Brutal Strike into a table?<br />
<br />
5. Does a "standard attack" count as an attack action (and thus can it be used for things like trip attacks?). Like could a soldier use Extra Strike and trip someone out of turn? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 03:19, 23 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Soldier,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229247Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)2014-11-23T03:12:11Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Soldier typo */</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=FrankTrollman<br />
|date_created=3/3/2010<br />
|adopter=Surgo<br />
|date_adopted=3/27/2010 <br />
|status=Complete<br />
|editing=Spelling and grammar only<br />
|balance=Wizard<br />
}}<br />
<div class="blank"><br />
{{#set:Summary=A warrior who understands the tactics of the various races of Dungeons &amp; Dragons and uses them herself in battle.<br />
|Length=20<br />
|Minimum Level=1<br />
|Base Attack Bonus Progression=Moderate<br />
|Fortitude Save Progression=Good<br />
|Reflex Save Progression=Poor<br />
|Will Save Progression=Poor<br />
|Class Ability=Other<br />
|Class Ability Progression=Full<br />
}}<br />
{{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Lawful Evil}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Neutral Evil}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Good}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Neutral}} {{#set:Allowed Alignments=Chaotic Evil}}<br />
</div><br />
<br />
[[File:Dwarf Soldier.jpg|thumb|A dwarven soldier.]]<br />
<br />
{{TOC Limit|4}}<br />
<br />
== Soldier ==<br />
{{Quote|I got so much style, my styles got style.}}<br />
<br />
The worlds of Dungeons &amp; Dragons have dozens or even hundreds of sapient races, all of whom have distinctive methods of combat and warfare. And yet, it is demonstrably true that an individual warrior of one species is pretty much interchangeable for one of any other. The true tactical uniqueness comes from the exemplar soldiers of these empires, and those are the dudes who have the actual Soldier class. However, even that only usually applies to low level Soldiers. Those who've fought in many battles get a grasp on the special tactics of the other races and start using them in battle. It is to be noted that some races (such as Osyluth) don't really engage in battle, and instead direct minions to do battle on their behalf. The secrets of battle for these races are then the tricks they drum into soldiers working for them, rather than into their own warriors.<br />
<br />
The Soldier is a vaguely Book of Weaboo Fightan Magic class, and as such has Maneuvers, Stances, and an initiator level and stuff like that. However, while they have these things, they also have a very simple system for using their abilities: they can use any of them they know whenever they want. A Soldier gets a lot of Stances (one per level) and relatively less Maneuvers (one every other level). Deal with it.<br />
<br />
=== Making a Soldier ===<br />
<br />
A Soldier has multiple attribute dependency of Intelligence and Constitution, also they have only a ¾ BAB progression. Nonetheless they are serviceable combatants even though Strength and Dexterity are probably like their 3rd or 4th best attributes. <br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Soldiers can and do fight for any cause, sometimes for ideology and other times for pure mercenary interest. A Soldier can be of any alignment, and the class is no marker for level's of fanaticism. The player can choose how strongly they detect their alignment.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' 8d4&times;10 gp (200 gp).<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' As [[Fighter (3.5e Class)|Fighter]].<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{Anchor|Table: The Soldier}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d8<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[#Maneuvers|Maneuvers]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
|-<br />
|1st||class="left" | +0 || +2 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Stances|Stances]], [[#Soldier Maneuvers|Soldier Maneuvers]], [[#Secrets of Battle|Secrets of Battle]]<br />
| 1<br />
|-<br />
|2nd||class="left" | +1 || +3 || +0 || +0<br />
| class="left" | [[#Hardened Survivor|Hardened Survivor]]<br />
| 1<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||class="left" | +2 || +3 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Wearing Shoes|Wearing Shoes]], [[#Lucky|Lucky]]<br />
| 2<br />
|-<br />
|4th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mighty Stances|Mighty Stances]]<br />
| 2<br />
|-<br />
|5th||class="left" | +3 || +4 || +1 || +1<br />
| class="left" | [[#Veteran's Experience|Veteran's Experience]]<br />
| 3<br />
|-<br />
|6th||class="left" | +4 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Leader of Men|Leader of Men]]<br />
| 3<br />
|-<br />
|7th||class="left" | +5 || +5 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 4<br />
|-<br />
|8th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +6 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | [[#Fantastic Stances|Fantastic Stances]]<br />
| 4<br />
|-<br />
|9th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +6 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 5<br />
|-<br />
|10th||class="left" | +7/+2 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Meet Interesting People|Meet Interesting People]]<br />
| 5<br />
|-<br />
|11th||class="left" | +8/+3 || +7 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
|12th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Giant Stances|Giant Stances]]<br />
| 6<br />
|-<br />
|13th||class="left" | +9/+4 || +8 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Boots Keep Walking|Boots Keep Walking]]<br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
|14th||class="left" | +10/+5 || +9 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | [[#Logistics Master|Logistics Master]]<br />
| 7<br />
|-<br />
|15th||class="left" | +11/+6/+6 || +9 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Going Places|Going Places]]<br />
| 8<br />
|-<br />
|16th||class="left" | +12/+7/+7 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | [[#Epic Stances|Epic Stances]]<br />
| 8<br />
|-<br />
|17th||class="left" | +12/+7/+7 || +10 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| 9<br />
|-<br />
|18th||class="left" | +13/+8/+8 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Mass Desertion|Mass Desertion]]<br />
| 9<br />
|-<br />
|19th||class="left" | +14/+9/+9 || +11 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | <br />
| 10<br />
|-<br />
|20th||class="left" | +15/+10/+10 || +12 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | [[#Face Any Foe|Face Any Foe]]<br />
| 10<br />
|- class="noalt"<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills ([[Skill Points::4]] + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/><br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Balance Skill|Balance}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Climb Skill|Climb}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Craft Skill|Craft}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Diplomacy Skill|Diplomacy}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Disguise Skill|Disguise}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Gather Information Skill|Gather Information}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Handle Animal Skill|Handle Animal}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Hide Skill|Hide}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Intimidate Skill|Intimidate}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Jump Skill|Jump}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge}} (all skills, taken individually) ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Listen Skill|Listen}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]])<br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Perform Skill|Perform}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Profession Skill|Profession}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Ride Skill|Ride}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Search Skill|Search}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Sleight of Hand Skill|Sleight of Hand}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Speak Language Skill|Speak Language}} (None), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Spot Skill|Spot}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Survival Skill|Survival}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Swim Skill|Swim}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the Soldier.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' A Soldier is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as the racial weapons of any race mentioned in one of their Combat Styles. A Soldier is proficient with Light, Medium, and Heavy Armors in addition to Shields and Tower Shields. <br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Soldier Maneuvers}}:''' As a Soldier gains class levels they learn how to perform amazing maneuvers of daring-do and general badassery which are collectively called "Maneuvers." A Maneuver takes a [[SRD:Standard Action|Standard Action]] and is an Extraordinary ability. Many of the Soldier's [[#Stances|Stances]] specifically impact the Soldier's special Soldier Maneuvers, and that refers to these and not just any attack action or full attack they happen to make.<br />
<br />
A Soldier has an Initiator level equal to their class level. A Soldier learns one maneuver each odd-numbered Soldier level, but they can also abandon any number of maneuvers they already learned whenever they gain a level of any class and learn new maneuvers that they qualify for. Most Soldier Maneuvers allow the character to make a standard attack modified in some fashion. If they are using a double weapon with which they are proficient or two finesseable weapons, they may instead make one standard attack with each weapon (adding only half their Strength bonus to the off-hand weapon), but any special maneuver effects that trigger on damage only trigger once if either or both attacks hit.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Secrets of Battle}}:''' A Soldier adds their Intelligence Modifier (if positive) to their attack rolls, up to a maximum bonus equal to their Soldier level.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Stances}}:''' While the Soldier is not flatfooted, they may engage a Stance at the cost of one Swift Action per round. Each Stance is usually based on the unique fighting techniques of one of the world's armies that the Soldier has trained in, fought with, or researched. Each Stance is procedurally generated, allowing the character to gain the benefit of their Intelligence bonus to something they don't normally get to do and get a special additional bonus based on the racial combat styles they are emulating. Each Stance also needs a ''name'', which can be generated on the chart at the end of this document. A Soldier gains one stance every level.<br />
<br />
:'''Basic Bonuses:'''<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to weapon damage.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Armor Class.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Saving Throws.<br />
:* Add Intelligence Modifier to Strength and Dexterity based Skill Checks.<br />
:* Gain Spell Resistance of 5 + Level + Intelligence Modifier.<br />
<br />
:'''Basic Race List:'''<br />
:* Orc: The character is considered to be one size category larger for purposes where that would be good such as carrying capacity, using weapons one handed, and tripping.<br />
:* Drow: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and cause 2 points of Strength damage.<br />
:* Dwarf: The Soldier resists things with great facility. If presented with a Fortitude or Willpower save for partial, the character receives the partial effect on a failed save and no effect at all on a successful save.<br />
:* Elf: The Soldier can take their Standard Action in the middle of their Move Action, continuing their movement after the Standard Action is resolved.<br />
:* Goblin: The Soldier can redirect any attacks against their mount to themselves, and may choose to have their mount discounted from an area of effect if they are are still within it.<br />
:* Hobgoblin: The Soldier does not generate the -10 penalty to [[SRD:Move Silently Skill|Move Silently]] for moving quickly, nor do they suffer the -20 penalty to Move Silently for engaging in combat.<br />
:* Halfling: The Soldier can throw any weapon they are proficient with to full effect as if they had made a melee attack with it – even for Manuvers that require a melee attack to function. A light weapon has a range increment of 30', a one-handed weapon has a range of 20', and a two handed weapon has a range increment of 10' (multiplied by the creature's base reach). A weapon thrown in this way gains a +2 bonus to hit for the what-the-crap factor.<br />
:* Gnome: When the Soldier inflicts damage onto a creature, that creature cannot see the Soldier until the beginning of the Soldier's next turn. It's like they were invisible, or crawling around underneath them or something.<br />
:* Kobold: When the soldier inflicts damage on a target they may as a free action place something that they have as a stored item in the target's square. Common choices include smoke sticks, thunderstones, caltrops, and feather tokens.<br />
:* Human: The Soldier can use any weapon or armor no matter how obscure without problem. The character is considered proficient with any weapons or armors even if exotic or improvised. The character also ignores armor check penalties and armor stealth penalties.<br />
:* Aasimar: The Soldier ignores Concealment (but not Full Concealment) unless that Concealment comes from poor lighting. Full Concealment is treated as regular Concealment unless it comes from total darkness.<br />
:* Tiefling: The Soldier has Full Concealment if poor lighting would give them Concealment.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Hardened Survivor}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 2nd level Soldier has resigned themselves to living in crappy conditions on both sides of a siege, and resigned themselves to eating things that a less martially oriented person would refuse out of hand. They may add their Constitution modifier to their [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] checks instead of their Wisdom Modifier. They also increase their death margin (the number of hit points past -10 it takes to kill them) by their ranks in Survival.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Wearing Shoes}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 3rd level Soldier really understands how Charlie thinks. Also how K'zrtlk thinks. And they can totally emulate those dudes. The Soldier gains a bonus to [[SRD:Disguise Skill|Disguise]] equal to their ranks in Disguise, and suffers no penalty for disguising themselves as a different race.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Lucky}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' It's amazing how a lucky veteran keeps coming back from amazingly dangerous situations. A 3rd level Soldier gains a luck bonus to their saving throws equal to their Constitution modifier, to a maximum of their Class Level. They also never have to make saves against massive damage.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Mighty Stances}}:''' From 4th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Mighty Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Mighty Races:'''<br />
:* Dark Creeper: The Soldier sees in any darkness, even magical darkness, like a frickin Devil.<br />
:* Gnoll: Enemies who are flanked by the Soldier are considered to be in difficult terrain and cannot take a 5' step.<br />
:* Skulk: The Soldier has Concealment, and people have to deal with a 20% miss chance. This provides a +4 bonus to Hide checks.<br />
:* Kuo-Toa: Whenever the Soldier is attacked in melee with a weapon, they may make a free melee attack roll. If they score higher on their roll than the attacker did, the attacker drops their weapon. The original attack still hits or misses normally.<br />
:* Lizardfolk: When attacking from Concealment or Cover, the target is denied their Dexterity bonus as if the Soldier was attacking from Full Concealment.<br />
:* Myconid: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + {{1/2}} Level + Int Modifier) or be confused for 1 round / level.<br />
:* Bugbear: If the Soldier hits a target with a Maneuver and that opponent is denied their Dexterity bonus to AC or flanked, the Soldier inflicts an extra d6 of sneak attack damage per 2 class levels.<br />
:* Thri-Kreen: The Soldier can leap for stupidly ridiculous distances. Each round, the Soldier can make an additional jump with a bonus equal to their level as a free action. This jump is not limited by height and any movement is completed that round, does not provoke attacks of opportunities, and does not count against the character's normal movement.<br />
:* Sahuagin: The Soldier can breathe water or air as whichever one would be preferable, and has a Land and Swim Speed equal to their highest of either.<br />
:* Troglodyte: Opponents who are [[SRD:Nauseated|nauseated]] in your threatened range do not get a Move Action and all attacks against them receive a +2 bonus to-hit and damage.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Veteran's Experience}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 5th level Soldier has seen crazy crap and come out craftier for it. They gain an enhancement bonus to their [[SRD:Intelligence|Intelligence]] equal to one third of their character level (round up).<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Leader of Men}}:''' At 6th level, a Soldier gains [[Command (3.5e Feat)|Command]] as a bonus feat. If they already have Command, they can take another [[Concept:3.5e Leadership Feats|&#91;Leadership&#93;]] Feat that they qualify for instead.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Boots Keep Walking}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' At level 7 and again at levels 9, 11, and 13 a Soldier's experience fighting on the battlefields of the Heavy Metalish terrain that dots the D&D landscape grants them special abilities related to that terrain experience. Every time the Soldier gains one of these Terrain-based abilities they also gain a cumulative +2 bonus to all Survival tests as they are able to generalize their specific experiences into relevancies in other circumstances.<br />
<br />
:'''Terrain Powers:'''<br />
:* Cave Crawler: The Soldier suffers no penalty for squeezing. The Soldier's movement speed is not reduced during poor visibility.<br />
:* Cliff Jumper: The Soldier gains a Climb speed equal to half their land speed. The Soldier ignores difficult terrain caused by uneven stone.<br />
:* Ice Skater: The Soldier gains Energy Resistance to Cold equal to their Character Level. They ignore the effects of any decreased temperatures.<br />
:* Inferno Commando: The Soldier gains Energy Resistance to Fire equal to their Character Level. They ignore the effects of any increased temperatures.<br />
:* Jungle Fighter: The Soldier can move through difficult terrain caused by vegetation as if it wasn't there, counts cover from vegetation as if it was one stage better in both directions (so 50% cover would provide them a +6 AC bonus but only a +2 AC bonus to enemies), and does not take damage or get entangled from enchanted vegetation such as entangle or briar web.<br />
:* Planar Champion: The Soldier ignores planar traits that would suck for them such as "Lawfully Aligned" or "Prison Plane" &mdash; not the Gravity or Time traits.<br />
:* Swamp Beast: The Soldier is able to ignore difficult terrain that is caused by an area being water logged. Also they are immune to the [[SRD:Nauseated|nauseated]] condition.<br />
:* Waste Warrior: The Soldier takes twice as long to dehydrate and takes half damage from dessication effects. Also they take no damage from and their visibility is not impaired by dust storms, smoke clouds, ash rains, and any similar stuff.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Fantastic Stances}}:''' From 8th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Fantastic Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Fantastic Races:'''<br />
:* Ogre: If the Soldier inflicts damage with an Attack of Opportunity, the action that provoked the Attack of Opportunity is not completed.<br />
:* Gith: If any creature uses a [Teleport] or plane shift effect within the Soldier's line of sight, they may elect to immediately teleport to a point that is adjacent to the creature's new location. Creatures cannot use Psionic abilities defensively within the Soldier's threatened area.<br />
:* Yakfolk: All spells are considered to be on the Soldier's list for purposes of activating Spell Trigger items.<br />
:* Pixie: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier) or fall asleep for 1 minute / level.<br />
:* Kyton: The Soldier's threatened area extends for an extra 20' in all directions.<br />
:* Yuan-Ti: All of the Soldier's maneuvers come with a poison rider if they inflict damage at all. Victims suffer 2d4 points of Constitution damage from poison, with a Fortitude Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Con Modifier) for half damage.<br />
:* Doppelgänger: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier) or give up their surface thoughts ''[[SRD:Detect Thoughts|detect thoughts]]'' style. Also the character can change shape into the target as per whatever version of ''[[SRD:Alter Self|alter self]]'' you're using.<br />
:* Abeil: All enemies within the Soldier's threatened area suffer a penalty to their Will saves equal to the Soldier's Intelligence Modifier.<br />
:* Succubus: If the Soldier inflicts damage on a target, they may convert all the damage to subdual and force the target to make a Will Save (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier), or accept a ''[[SRD:Suggestion|suggestion]]''.<br />
:* Nerra: Any time the Soldier successfully negates a spell, or supernatural or spell-like ability targeted against them with a successful saving throw or spell resistance, the spell is reflected against the caster of the spell as per ''[[SRD:Spell Turning|spell turning]]''.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Meet Interesting People}}:''' At 10th level, the Soldier can add their [[SRD:Intelligence|Intelligence]] modifier to [[SRD:Charisma|Charisma]] checks.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Giant Stances}}:''' From 12th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Giant Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Giant Races:'''<br />
:* Ilithid: The Soldier can coup de grace a target who is [[SRD:Stunned|stunned]] as a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity.<br />
:* Ettin: The Soldier can attack with two weapons when using a Maneuver, and they don't even have to be light or finesse-able weapons. If both attacks hit, any special effects that trigger on damage may occur twice. Both weapons use the Soldier's full Strength bonus.<br />
:* Stone Giant: The Soldier may catch or deflect a number of ranged weapons equal to their Intelligence modifier each turn.<br />
:* Fire Giant: The Soldier can cause a burst of fire damage every time they inflict damage with a Maneuver. This is a 15' burst that inflicts half as much damage as the attack inflicted and is centered on the target. It is all fire damage, and a Reflex save halves that damage.<br />
:* Slaad: The Soldier can giant frog at will.<br />
:* Eladrin: '''Not yet filled in!'''<br />
:* Troll: The Soldier has [[SRD:Regeneration|Regeneration]] of 1 hit point per round per level. Acid, Fire, starvation, and suffocation do normal damage.<br />
:* Vrock: When the Soldier performs a maneuver, all other creatures within 40' suffer 3d20 of Ultima damage, Fortitude save for half (DC 10 + ½ Level + Int Modifier).<br />
:* Osyluth: The Soldier sees through illusions and shape changing as per ''[[SRD:True Seeing|true seeing]]''.<br />
:* Justicator: The Soldier can redirect the target of a single target effect or attack to themselves if the original target is within the Soldier's Reach.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Logistics Master}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' A 14th level Soldier is a master of war and can manage supply lines intuitively. The Soldier can use their [[SRD:Survival Skill|Survival]] skill to manage Logistics on any scale from the personal to the Imperial.<br />
<br />
'''''{{Anchor|Going Places}}'' ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Spell-Like|Sp]]):''' A 15th level Soldier can follow anything to anywhere. By touching something from another plane, they may ''[[SRD:Plane Shift|plane shift]]'' to the plane of the creature or object's origin. Since it is easy to touch yourself in D&D, a Soldier can always return to their own plane of origin. This can also be used to banish things to their home plane of existence, if they fail a Will save.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Epic Stances}}:''' From 16th level on, a Soldier can select their racial bonuses for their stances from the Epic Races list.<br />
<br />
:'''Epic Races:'''<br />
:* Rakshasa: The Soldier is unaffected by spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities of 6th level or less, as if they were carrying a ''[[Greater Globe of Invulnerability (3.5e Spell)|greater globe of invulnerability]]'' around.<br />
:* Storm Giant: The Soldier is unaffected by weather effects. Also, whenever the Soldier inflicts damage with a Maneuver, they may strike any other targets (of their choice) within 60' with a lightning bolt that does half that much damage (Reflex Save for half again).<br />
:* Ethergaunt: Any time the Soldier strikes a target with a Maneuver, they may create an ''[[SRD:Antimagic Field|antimagic field]]'' that fills the 5' square they struck for one round.<br />
:* Archon: The damage inflicted by the Soldier's maneuvers may be converted entirely to Light damage.<br />
:* Deva: The Soldier may choose to cancel immunities to stun, sleep, or fear on targets within 30' of themselves.<br />
:* Marilith: The Soldier makes a number of additional standard attacks equal to their Intelligence modifier when they perform a maneuver. Any special effect that takes place if the maneuver inflicts damage takes place if at least one of the attacks inflicts damage.<br />
:* Gelugon: Any target damaged by the Soldier's Maneuvers is [[SRD:Slow|slowed]] for 1 round. Any time the Solder strikes a target who is [[SRD:Shaken|shaken]] or worse, the attack is a critical hit.<br />
:* Nycoloth: If the Soldier inflicts damage with a maneuver, they may use their attack or damage result as their Grapple result to immediately start a grapple against the same target.<br />
:* Quarut: The Soldier can take actions normally during time disturbances, and continues to get turns during ''[[SRD:Time Stop|time stop]]'' (if cast within long range of the Soldier). They may interact with things that are frozen in time (so they could, for example, perform a coup de grace on a target that was in ''[[SRD:Temporal Stasis|temporal stasis]]'').<br />
:* Anathema: The Soldier can generate an ''[[SRD:Antipathy|antipathy]]'' effect as a free action, once per round.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Mass Desertion}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' An 18th level Soldier is a dreaded thing. When he takes to the field, enemies know their cause is hopeless. Enemies of CR 8 or less who see the Soldier in the fray simply give up. They retreat or surrender as appropriate. This is not a fear effect, and extends to line of sight.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Face Any Foe}} ([[SRD:Special Abilities Overview#Extraordinary|Ex]]):''' The soldier has faced many enemies throughout his whole career, and knows exactly the right tactics to use against almost any foe. Once per day as a swift action, the level 20 soldier may replace a feat he possesses permanently with another feat, as long as the feat isn't a set bonus feat or a prerequisite for a class or other feat he possesses.<br />
<br />
==== Maneuvers ====<br />
<br />
In order to take a specific Strike you must have an Initiator Level sufficient to use it, meaning that half your Initiator Level (rounded up) must be at least the level of the proposed Maneuver.<br />
<br />
If there is a Save offered by a Soldier Strike, the DC is 10 + ½ Character Level + Constitution Modifier.<br />
<br />
===== Brutal Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits someone super hard with a melee attack. The attack does an extra d6 of damage. This bonus increases to 2d6 at 3rd level, 3d6 at 4th level, 4d6 at 6th level, 5d6 at 7th level, 7d6 at 8th level, 9d6 at 9th level, 11d6 at 10th level, 14d6 at 11th level, 16d6 at 12th level, 20d6 at 13th level, 100 points at 14th level, 110 points at 15th level, 125 points at 16th level, 150 points at 17th level, 175 points at 18th level, 200 points at 19th level, and 250 points of damage at 20th level.<br />
<br />
===== Looting Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier stabs a fool and pockets their things. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack and if it inflicts damage they can force the target to drop a weapon or other carried item. The Soldier can grab and store that item if they wish.<br />
<br />
===== Turtle World =====<br />
'''Level:''' 1<br />
<br />
The Soldier attacks normally but hides themselves from harm. The Soldier makes a standard attack and has Energy Resistance to all energy types and DR/- equal to their Constitution modifier plus their Character Level until the beginning of their next turn if the attack inflicts damage.<br />
<br />
===== Blinding Blow =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes a foe in their eyes or whatever they see with. They make a standard attack and if they inflict damage the target must make a Fortitude save or be [[SRD:Blinded|blinded]].<br />
<br />
===== Knockdown =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes someone in a manner that knocks them right down. The Soldier makes a standard attack and if it inflicts damage, the target becomes [[SRD:Prone|prone]].<br />
<br />
===== Runaround =====<br />
'''Level:''' 2<br />
<br />
The Soldier runs around and stabs someone from an unconventional direction. The Soldier moves their speed and then makes a standard melee attack at +2 to-hit. The Soldier gains a +2 bonus to AC until the beginning of their next turn.<br />
<br />
===== Delaying Tactics =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier feints and draws things out, unraveling time. The Soldier makes a standard attack. Every creature adjacent to the Soldier is ''[[SRD:Slow|slowed]]'' for a number of rounds equal to the Soldier's Character Level.<br />
<br />
===== Executioner =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier chops a dude's head right off and spits down the hole in the stump. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack and if he does any damage the target makes a Fortitude save or they die.<br />
<br />
===== Whirlwind =====<br />
'''Level:''' 3<br />
<br />
The Soldier flips out and stabs everyone. The soldier makes a standard melee attack against every opponent they can reach. They may gain no more bonus cleave attacks than they have Intelligence modifier.<br />
<br />
===== Hurl Away =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an opponent and hurls them away from themselves. The Soldier makes a standard melee attack, and if it does any damage the target is also pushed away 5' for every point of Constition bonus the Soldier has. This works like a successful Bullrush except that the Soldier doesn't need to move to keep the victim moving.<br />
<br />
===== Lingering Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits the target with a cruel and lingering wound that disrupts their concentration. The Soldier makes a standard attack. The attack does double damage, and is considered to be ongoing damage for purposes of Concentration checks made in the following round.<br />
<br />
===== Mind Thwack =====<br />
'''Level:''' 4<br />
<br />
The Soldier beats someone in the brain so hard that it creates a psychic resonance the incapacitates others. The Soldier makes a standard attack against a living, non-mindless creature and if he does any damage, all creatures except the Soldier within 10' of the target must make a Will save or be [[SRD:Stunned|stunned]] for 1d4 rounds<br />
<br />
===== Demoralizing Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier hits a target so ugly that it freaks out all of their allies. If the target takes any damage they are [[SRD:Sickened|sickened]] for the next minute. All enemies within line of sight must make a Will save or become [[SRD:Shakened|shakened]] for one round.<br />
<br />
===== Dimensional Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier reaches into the ether and tears the target a new one. The Soldier sees the invisible and then makes a standard attack that ignore Incorporeality and can strike Ethereal creatures. If the attack does any damage, the target is moved to the plane of existence that the Soldier is on and is no longer incorporeal for the next 2d4 rounds.<br />
<br />
===== Meteor Smash =====<br />
'''Level:''' 5<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the ground so hard that everything just fucking explodes. All other creatures within 30' suffer 1d8/level of physical bludgeoning damage, Reflex save for half.<br />
<br />
===== Blade Rush =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier runs around his opponents and jacks them up. The Soldier moves their full move without provoking attacks of opportunity and makes a standard melee attack against every opponent who is within their threatened area at any point during their move. Each attack inflicts bonus damage equal to the maximum damage inflicted by the weapon's damage die (for example: 8 damage for a longsword or falchion). The character cannot gain bonus attacks from [[SRD:Cleave|Cleave]] or [[Horde Breaker (3.5e Feat)|Horde Breaker]] during this maneuver.<br />
<br />
===== Critical Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an opponent perfectly. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and if it hits it is a critical as if it had rolled a natural 20 and then confirmed.<br />
<br />
===== Hydra Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 6<br />
<br />
The Soldier makes a flurry of attacks. The character makes a number of standard attacks equal to their Intelligence modifier. These don't even have to be against the same target. Every time they get a critical hit, they get an additional attack.<br />
<br />
===== Doom Tunnel =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier hacks a corridor through whatever happens to be in front of him, whether that be air, rock or other people. He may move out to his full charge range and attack everyone who is in his path. If he fails to kill a target, they are shoved aside so he can keep moving. Any nonliving thing in the path is ''[[SRD:Disintegrate|disintegrated]]'', as per the spell.<br />
<br />
===== Earth Shaker =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the ground and the ground strikes everyone else. All other creatures touching the ground within 60' of the soldier take 1d8 points of bludgeoning damage per Character Level (Fortitude half). Those creatures that fail their saves are also partially buried in dirt. They are [[SRD:Prone|prone]] and [[SRD:Entangled|entangled]] until they can make an [[SRD:Escape Artist Skill|Escape Artist]] or size-modified Strength check with a DC of 15 + the Soldier's Constitution modifier as a Full Round Action (or burrow or teleport out).<br />
<br />
===== Heaven Piercer =====<br />
'''Level:''' 7<br />
<br />
The Soldier stabs the sky hard enough to split it open and cause death to rain down upon everyone around. This requires line of sight to the sky, and causes all within 50 feet to take 1d8 Electricity damage per level (Reflex half). Additionally, the general other-dimensional doom raining down pushes creatures over, negates ranged attacks, and impedes flight within 50' of the Soldier until his next turn as per a [[SRD:Weather#Hurricane-Force Wind|Hurricane-Force Wind]]. In some planes of existence, a wounded sky may leak damage types other than lightning, such as fire or acid.<br />
<br />
===== Banishing Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier smashes the target out of existence. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and if the target suffers any damage it is sent to its home plane, where it is then ''[[SRD:Dimensional Anchor|dimensional anchored]]'' for a day. The soldier may travel with the target if they choose.<br />
<br />
===== Hamster Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes the target in such a manner that they become a small rodent. The soldier makes a standard attack, and if any damage is inflicted, the target is now a harmless hamster, as per ''[[SRD:Baleful Polymorph|baleful polymorph]]''. Some Soldiers learn similar attacks that transform the target into other things.<br />
<br />
===== Harrying Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 8<br />
<br />
The Soldier may take a 5' step that teleports to a space adjacent to a creature that was within short range of the Soldier ''last turn''. The Soldier need not know where the target has gone since then, and can follow any distance to any plane of existence without fail. The Soldier then makes a standard attack.<br />
<br />
===== Extra Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier makes a standard attack as a free action. This may be used once per round, and may be used on other creatures' initiative counts.<br />
<br />
===== Perfect Killer =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier strikes an enemy and they die. The Soldier makes a standard attack against a target, if the target suffers any damage it dies. This is a [Death] effect.<br />
<br />
===== World Slaying Strike =====<br />
'''Level:''' 9<br />
<br />
The Soldier attacks every creature they can see. The Soldier makes a standard attack, and this attack is resolved against every target they choose to designate out to line of sight. Make one attack roll and compare to each target's AC, but if miss chances apply, roll for each separately.<br />
<br />
<br />
==== Naming Your Stances ====<br />
<br />
When you name your styles, be sure to have the representative species name in there somewhere, and also generate an adjective and a noun to name the stance. The racial word can go in the first, second, or third position depending on what sounds better. So when making a Drow style, you could have the "Underhanded Grandeur of the Drow" or the "Drow Invincible Method" or the "Informal Drow Approach."<br />
<br />
Pick an adjective and a noun, or roll on the following table:<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
! Roll !! Adjective !! Noun<br />
|-<br />
| 1 || Rising || Stance<br />
|-<br />
| 2 || Sweltering || Dance<br />
|-<br />
| 3 || Sneaky || Technique<br />
|-<br />
| 4 || Underhanded || Style<br />
|-<br />
| 5 || Virtuous || Grandeur<br />
|-<br />
| 6 || Wonderful || Defense<br />
|-<br />
| 7 || Glorious || Manner<br />
|-<br />
| 8 || Fantastic || Attack<br />
|-<br />
| 9 || Dark || Idiosyncrasy<br />
|-<br />
| 10 || Wicked || Tactic<br />
|-<br />
| 11 || Awesome || Maneuver<br />
|-<br />
| 12 || Splendid || Pattern<br />
|-<br />
| 13 || Informal || Mode<br />
|-<br />
| 14 || Shadow || Method<br />
|-<br />
| 15 || Sexy || Mean<br />
|-<br />
| 16 || Impenetrable || System<br />
|-<br />
| 17 || Invincible || Way<br />
|-<br />
| 18 || Inflammable || Approach<br />
|-<br />
| 19 || Sordid || Attitude<br />
|-<br />
| 20 || Wrathful || Craft<br />
|}<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Totemist_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229225Talk:Totemist (3.5e Class)2014-11-22T22:23:17Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Behir v Chimera */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Surgo<br />
|rating=love<br />
|reason=It's a [[Monk, Tome (3.5e Class)|Monk]] that's a feral dude. What's not to like?<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Foxwarrior<br />
|rating=neutral<br />
|reason=It's a perfectly decent Tome Monk-style caster. The abilities aren't complex, unusual, or distinct enough to be more exciting than playing a thematically chosen Sorcerer instead, though.<br />
<br />
Not sure why it shares a name with an MoI class, really.<br />
}}The original is only complicated to less intelligent minds! The Soulmelds are in effect magic items when bound to Chakra points, and when not lose one of their effects. This entire rewrite is undermining the entire aspect of the Book Magic of Incarnum as each of the three classes has this "power source". Again, its not even that complicated, try playing a Wizard and compare how complicated they are.<br />
<br />
:Let's be real here, ''MoI'' was pretty stupid from the ground up. Saying that this class is undermining a goal that I find foolhardy when all it really did was replace three crappy classes with one good one is not a very convincing argument, as it prioritizes fluff over mechanics. Which is silly. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 04:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hey, some of us like a lot of the stuff the book brings to the table :-P --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 05:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Fox -- it shares the name with the MoI class because it is intended to replace the MoI class. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 14:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::If I made a class called the "Warmage" that was just a Fighter with "All your attacks are magical" instead of its first level feat, it would be perfectly reasonable to say "not sure why it shares a name with a Complete Arcane class, really." --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 16:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::This replaces the Totemist abilities with similar-flavored abilities. I don't really understand your objection, as this is nothing like the metaphor you are trying to use. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:56, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Little things to bring up==<br />
<br />
1. The Advanced Totems has the Behir, Winter Wolf, and Chimera, which all have damaging effects out to close range. The only difference is the Behir's is a line for electricity damage and the Chimera's/Wolf's is a cone for fire/cold damage. Normally when an effect is a line, its range is increased in order to compensate for the lost area compared to a cone, but that is not so here. Is that because of the damage, is it an oversight, or should I just deal with it?<br />
<br />
2. True Seeing in the Phase Wasp entry is not italicized but capitalized instead. Was this intentional? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Totemist_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229222Talk:Totemist (3.5e Class)2014-11-22T22:13:30Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Behir v Chimera */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Surgo<br />
|rating=love<br />
|reason=It's a [[Monk, Tome (3.5e Class)|Monk]] that's a feral dude. What's not to like?<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=Foxwarrior<br />
|rating=neutral<br />
|reason=It's a perfectly decent Tome Monk-style caster. The abilities aren't complex, unusual, or distinct enough to be more exciting than playing a thematically chosen Sorcerer instead, though.<br />
<br />
Not sure why it shares a name with an MoI class, really.<br />
}}The original is only complicated to less intelligent minds! The Soulmelds are in effect magic items when bound to Chakra points, and when not lose one of their effects. This entire rewrite is undermining the entire aspect of the Book Magic of Incarnum as each of the three classes has this "power source". Again, its not even that complicated, try playing a Wizard and compare how complicated they are.<br />
<br />
:Let's be real here, ''MoI'' was pretty stupid from the ground up. Saying that this class is undermining a goal that I find foolhardy when all it really did was replace three crappy classes with one good one is not a very convincing argument, as it prioritizes fluff over mechanics. Which is silly. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 04:50, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hey, some of us like a lot of the stuff the book brings to the table :-P --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 05:21, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Fox -- it shares the name with the MoI class because it is intended to replace the MoI class. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 14:26, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::If I made a class called the "Warmage" that was just a Fighter with "All your attacks are magical" instead of its first level feat, it would be perfectly reasonable to say "not sure why it shares a name with a Complete Arcane class, really." --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 16:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::This replaces the Totemist abilities with similar-flavored abilities. I don't really understand your objection, as this is nothing like the metaphor you are trying to use. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 18:56, 23 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Behir v Chimera ==<br />
<br />
The Advanced Totems has the Behir and the Chimera, which both have damaging effects out to close range. The only difference is the Behir's is a line for electricity damage and the Chimera's is a cone for fire damage. Normally when an effect is a line, its range is increased in order to compensate for the lost area compared to a cone, but that is not so here. Is that because of the damage, is it an oversight, or should I just deal with it? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shadow_Magister_(3.5e_Class)&diff=229097Talk:Shadow Magister (3.5e Class)2014-11-19T08:28:47Z<p>YouLostMe: /* A Few Assorted Thoughts */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== Tarkis, this was all your fault ==<br />
<br />
What the title says. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 06:04, 27 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Because I sort of babbled about doing WotC conversions for ToP, and that got you to look at the Shadow Whatever and you decided to redo it because you like the theme? In that case, you are welcome for the motivation. Comments later today after I have finished digesting the mysteries list, recharge casting, and spell level adjustments. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 19:20, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Not only that - it's an amazing missed opportunity, and shadowcasting is so shitty as written in ToM that I couldn't stand ''not'' rewriting it. It's like seeing an untidy kitchen - it bothers me on a very fundamental level, and begs to be fixed. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 20:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::You don't remake every article you dislike. What are you going to do about that? --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 21:02, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Only so many hours in the day, Fox. A man's gotta prioritize. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 21:11, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Memorization ==<br />
<br />
The association structure here leads to some interesting behaviors. You can run around with 6 things prepped + your fundamentals, and you can change or restore those 6 things with an hour of time. There's no rest limiter in here that I saw, which is fine, but it turns the whole idea of giving wizard spells as mysteries on its head a bit. They get more starting spell effects than a low level wizard or sorcerer, can recharge them much more easily, and that should be taken into account in the mystery list. Straight up spell level dropping + recitalizing is not a great fit for them as a result. They need a lot more rituals and a lot fewer recitations basically. I have some specific concerns about some of the mysteries, but I'll put that on the list talk. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 21:18, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Would extending the switch-out or restoration time solve some of these problems? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 21:21, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Probably not unless it was extended to be on par with normal resting times, which I don't think helpful or interesting. Leaning more heavily on their Mysteries Revealed feature to get their all the time stuff, and possibly adding more of them, is a better call I think. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 21:31, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's good by me. How ''many'' more do you reckon? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 21:58, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Every even level after 4 I guess, so they get to advance one per Mystery level. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 22:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Implementing now. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 22:16, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==No Concentration==<br />
<br />
Can their mysteries be interrupted like other arcane magic? If so, did you want to put back in Concentration so they don't lose them to a readied action, or is that weakness intentional? - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 22:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:They can be, or at least, that was my intention. I thought you moved the 'readied action' thing to Arcana and co? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 22:50, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Casting defensively is in Arcana. Casting while being stabbed (like the result of someone readying to stab you when you started casting) is still in Concentration. Casting while melting in a pool of lava or on fire is in Endurance. The intent was to make breaking casting more common, and to boost the utility of casting a DoT spell on a caster.<br />
<br />
::Anyway, this class can cast defensively but can't handle an interruption for shit. That might be fine and dandy since they have other utility stuff to balance, but I wanted to point it out. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 22:54, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I think I'll leave it for now. I'm not really sure how much of a weakness this is relative to what else this class gets, and I kinda ''like'' the class skills they currently get. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 22:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=DanielDraco<br />
|rating=love<br />
|reason=This doesn't just fix Shadowcasters -- this fixes Vancian casting. It's a ''much'' better way to go about limiting spellcasting. It's a little lightweight in rules, but then again so are wizards and sorcerers -- which, by throwing together a handful of other themed spell lists, it could easily replace.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating |rater=ThunderGod Cid |rating=like |reason=I like this class, sure, but I must admit I'm not blown away by it. It does what it does, which is all well and good. By that, I mean that it makes the shadowcaster not suck donkey balls, which needed to happen. The mysteries certainly give it all the things that it needs to be effective in combat and be all shadow-themed, but these are all things that I expect. The unseen servant-related abilities are a nice touch, especially given the nifty scrying you can do through it later on, but I feel Tarkis' reservations concerning some of the mysteries are reasonable and given that this class was inspiried by ToP it doesn't seem to incorporate all that much ToP content (with the exception of Shadow Amplification). This may have been deliberate so the class can adequately stand alone from ToP, so I'll excuse it. All in all, a practical class, but I will expect much of the interesting bits to come in the form of homebrew spells that serve as mysteries rather than the class itself given the absence of different theme choices (a la the Tome Sorcerer).}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating |rater=Salazar666 |rating=like |reason= Like Cid said it gets the job done, But lacks an indepth lore to go along with these very mysterious and shadowy casters. Its not something I personally will be playing anytime soon, But there will be plenty of others who would love it to death}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating |rater=Tarkisflux |rating=favor <br />
|reason=This is one of those rare casters who gets a bunch of fairly strong stuff, but is pretty narrow in what they can actually do with it. They only get 2 or 3 abilities per mystery level by the end, but they can use them a lot. Which means that anytime they have a "shadow magister" shaped lock they get to bash it in, but they're unlikely to overshadow people in lots of other circumstances. In the ToP version, the only items they get to backup their limited selection are the ones they pay for with skill selections; and they don't get backup at all without. It's a nice caster setup that plays differently than most others around, and I'm for it.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|Rating=True |rater=Leziad |rating=favor |reason=I really like this class. Also what the others said.}}<br />
<br />
==Rating Retorts==<br />
<br />
Never thought I'd hear ''that'' one about rating granularity. To address some of the critiques, however:<br />
<br />
* The thing about ToP compliance is that this is all it is - ''compliance''. This class is meant to be usable with ToP without any changes. It's not really meant to be a class that highlights the strengths of ToP, due to its being a caster.<br />
* The absence of themes is quite intentional - being a shadow magister ''is'' by itself a theme. This is definitionally a narrow class, so I don't think themes are best served as parts of this class. Check out some of its PrC options though - ''those'' are the themes for this class, in my view. <br />
<br />
I also have to freely admit that this was inspired by two things: firstly, the fact that the shadowcaster ''did'' suck donkey dick; secondly, their casting mechanic, which incorporates some new ideas I've seen kicked around on the Gaming Den not long ago in a practical implementation. So in a way, this is conceptual test work, and thus, I never really expected it to be one of my masterpieces.<br />
<br />
In terms of new mysteries, however, ''that'' I am totally down with. At the moment, the class lacks summons, for example, which is definitely an area I could see it being expanded into. Volunteering, Cid? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 02:05, 30 June 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== A Few Assorted Thoughts ==<br />
<br />
I just had a few things I wanted to bring up:<br />
<br />
1. I notice the ability to ignore somatic components isn't part of the shadow magister class even though it's one of the cooler parts of the shadowcaster. Did I miss a mention of that or is there a reason you didn't include it? I'd like to see it at least as a feat or ACF for the shadow magister.<br />
<br />
2. The 8th and 9th level mysteries don't have any recitals and there are very few at each other level. Is this intentional? Could I suggest/write a couple?<br />
<br />
3. When a spell is added to the shadow magister's spell list (like with the Stranger in the Night adding ''suggestion'' to a caster's spell list) are they added as a mystery (recital/illusion?) or does that just not work?</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jelly_Flavor_(3.5e_Spell)&diff=229053Talk:Jelly Flavor (3.5e Spell)2014-11-19T00:38:03Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Taken from the Boards ==<br />
<br />
This spell was taken, by permission, from the Wizards Boards. Here is the thread related to it: [http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=124820]<br />
<br />
== Formatting Errors ==<br />
There are strange formatting errors with this spell and Jelly Luminescence. The errors are identical for both pages.--[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 00:38, 19 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Community_Favorite&diff=229008Category talk:Community Favorite2014-11-18T03:11:18Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>Not sure where to write this, but the link on the front page to Ranged Flanking sends you to the page for Ranged Threat. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 03:11, 18 November 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Category_talk:Community_Favorite&diff=229007Category talk:Community Favorite2014-11-18T03:10:02Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "Not sure where to write this, but the link on the front page to Ranged Flanking sends you to the page for Ranged Threat."</p>
<hr />
<div>Not sure where to write this, but the link on the front page to Ranged Flanking sends you to the page for Ranged Threat.</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ranged_Feint_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=227663Talk:Ranged Feint (3.5e Feat)2014-10-25T21:33:40Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>It would appear that you can front from any range, but you just don't get the flat-footed benefit unless you're following that up with a melee attack. Am I wrong about this? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 21:33, 25 October 2014 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Hrmmm, right you are. Editing now to reflect that. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 19:38, 25 October 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Possessed_(3.5e_NPC_Class)&diff=226916Talk:Possessed (3.5e NPC Class)2014-10-15T22:33:22Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "DR 3/- per feat seems like too much, especially for something that's got CR = 1/2 level. At level 1, humans have got DR 6/- and ER 6, which is like the maximum damage from a '..."</p>
<hr />
<div>DR 3/- per feat seems like too much, especially for something that's got CR = 1/2 level. At level 1, humans have got DR 6/- and ER 6, which is like the maximum damage from a ''fireball'' at that level. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:33, 15 October 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Weapon_Finesse,_Tome_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=212511Talk:Weapon Finesse, Tome (3.5e Feat)2014-03-30T10:24:13Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Ratings */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Surgo<br />
|rating=oppose<br />
|reason=There's already a Tome Weapon Finesse; this is just that one with the abilities reordered.<br />
}}<br />
That would be the point. Requiring finesse users to wait until level 11 to use their main attribute for damage is bad, so I rewrote it to give them a better quality of life. Now weapon finesse is not rogues-only. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 10:24, 30 March 2014 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Great_Fortitude_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=205521Talk:Great Fortitude (3.5e Feat)2013-12-09T02:26:54Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "One HP/lvl seems awfully underwhelming at level 6. --~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>One HP/lvl seems awfully underwhelming at level 6. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 02:26, 9 December 2013 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Weapon_Finesse,_Tome_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=205399Weapon Finesse, Tome (3.5e Feat)2013-12-05T08:31:34Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2013<br />
|status=Done-ish?<br />
|balance=Very High}}<br />
<br />
:''This feat is scaling [Combat] feat made to replace weapon finesse. You may be looking for the weapon finesse in [[Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)|Races of War]] or the SRD [[SRD:Weapon Finesse]].''<br />
<br />
</noinclude>{{Tome Combat Feat<br />
|name=Weapon Finesse<br />
|summary=You're good with your fingers<br />
|bab0=You may use your Dexterity Modifier instead of your Strength modifier for calculating your melee attack bonus.<br />
|bab1=You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier for calculating your melee damage.<br />
|bab6=Your special attacks are considered to have the Edge when you attack an opponent with a Dexterity modifier smaller than yours, even if your Base Attack Bonus is not larger. You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when attempting to trip an opponent.<br />
|bab11=As a swift action, you can replace your AC for 1 round with the result of a melee attack roll.<br />
|bab16=Once per turn, when an opponent is struck, you may take an attack of opportunity on that opponent.<br />
}}<noinclude><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Scaling Feats Breadcrumb}}<br /><br />
{{Tome Material Breadcrumb}} &rarr; [[Tome Combat Feats|Combat Feats]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Tome]]<br />
[[Category:Scaling Feat]]<br />
</noinclude><br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Weapon_Finesse,_Tome_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=205398Weapon Finesse, Tome (3.5e Feat)2013-12-05T08:30:11Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "{{author |author_name=YouLostMe |date_created=2013 |status=Done-ish? |balance=Very High}} <onlyinclude>{{3.5e Feat |name=Weapon Finesse, Tome |types=Combat |summary=Weapon Fi..."</p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=YouLostMe<br />
|date_created=2013<br />
|status=Done-ish?<br />
|balance=Very High}}<br />
<br />
<onlyinclude>{{3.5e Feat<br />
|name=Weapon Finesse, Tome<br />
|types=Combat<br />
|summary=Weapon Finesse that doesn't make you feel bad for using it<br />
|prereqs=<br />
|fluff=Swish swish stab<br />
|benefit=<br />
|example=<!-- If your feat has a complicated mechanic, give an example of how it works. --><br />
|normal=<br />
|special=<br />
}}</onlyinclude><br />
<br />
:''This feat is scaling [Combat] feat made to replace weapon finesse. You may be looking for the weapon finesse in [[Races of War (3.5e Sourcebook)|Races of War]] or the SRD [[SRD:Weapon Finesse]].''<br />
</noinclude>{{Tome Combat Feat<br />
|name=Weapon Finesse<br />
|summary=You're good with your fingers<br />
|bab0=You may use your Dexterity Modifier instead of your Strength modifier for calculating your melee attack bonus.<br />
|bab1=You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier for calculating your melee damage.<br />
|bab6=Your special attacks are considered to have the Edge when you attack an opponent with a Dexterity modifier smaller than yours, even if your Base Attack Bonus is not larger. You may use your Dexterity modifier in place of your Strength modifier when attempting to trip an opponent.<br />
|bab11=As a swift action, you can replace your AC for 1 round with the result of a melee attack roll.<br />
|bab16=Once per turn, when an opponent is struck, you may take an attack of opportunity on that opponent.<br />
}}<noinclude><br />
<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Scaling Feats Breadcrumb}}<br /><br />
{{Tome Material Breadcrumb}} &rarr; [[Tome Combat Feats|Combat Feats]]<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Tome]]<br />
[[Category:Scaling Feat]]<br />
</noinclude><br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Warlock_(3.5e_Class)&diff=205390Talk:Warlock (3.5e Class)2013-12-04T21:20:28Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "Should this be listed as Warlock, Tome (in keeping with the trend)? Also, the word "spherelock" should appear somewhere for searchability--where is the best place to put that?..."</p>
<hr />
<div>Should this be listed as Warlock, Tome (in keeping with the trend)? Also, the word "spherelock" should appear somewhere for searchability--where is the best place to put that? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 21:20, 4 December 2013 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lesser_Scorpionfolk_(3.5e_Race)&diff=204797Talk:Lesser Scorpionfolk (3.5e Race)2013-11-17T22:02:41Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "Is this meant to be LA +1 or just ECL 2? --~~~~"</p>
<hr />
<div>Is this meant to be LA +1 or just ECL 2? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:02, 17 November 2013 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Infinite_Spell_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=197505Talk:Infinite Spell (3.5e Feat)2013-05-30T11:09:59Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Foxwarrior<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=It's totally crazy and deserving of the Very High tag, but the actual effect is moderated enough by a +4 level increase that it won't break the game ''too'' much.<br />
}}<br />
== Too Powerful ==<br />
<br />
Considering the number of ways one may ignore metamagic levels this seems like an extremely powerful feat. Look at Innate Spell as an example, it has you permantly lose a spell slot 8 levels higher to be able to cast a spell at will as a spell like ability and requires Quicken, Still and Silent. Granted, spell-like abilities are a bit more powerful, but with Infinite Spell you could still use your other metamagic feats making your chosen spell insanely powerful.<br />
<br />
:This was built with a few assumptions about the way spells should scale (not that they actually do this). Specifically, that a spell of level X+1 should be about twice as powerful as a spell of level X (which is itself based on CR math, the idea that all non-trivial portions of a wizard's power comes from their spells, and the premise that there is a power relationship between spells of different level), which would suggest that a spell of level X+4 should be about 16x more powerful than a spell of level X. When you factor in the save DC differences, additional action costs, and spell level caps I figured that +4 spell levels was worth throwing it around as many times as you like until you re-prepped. I'll admit that there are some problems with this (long range spells are big offenders since they scale to 'dumb' distance and built in spell scaling makes the power relationship premise difficult to defend in reality) and that the cost might need to be higher, but saying it's too strong 'because innate spell costs more' doesn't sway me much. There's a lot of material on here designed to make up for perceived shortcomings in published material, and innate spell is a sad unfunny joke as far as I'm concerned. You take 4 feats and burn a 9th level slot to be able to cast magic missile or grease or color spray or sleep all day, and you don't even get to swap that around during down time. That's not a reasonable use of a 9th level slot and 4 feats IMO. <br />
<br />
:By contrast, the question you ask with this feat is "do I want to cast web all day with a 12+X DC or do I want to cast acid fog once with a 16+X DC?". Sure, you can web it up all day, but there are plenty of things at your level that just don't care about web anymore, or glitterdust, or ghoul touch, or whatever. You could grab all day charm person instead, but I don't care about an army of peasants failing DC 11+X saves when you're level 9, nor do I really care about all day knock at 11 instead of a level 6 spell or most other utility or non-combat spells that you could use this on. And while you can boost the effects with other metamagic feats, then the question becomes "do I want to cast widened web all day with a 12+X DC or do I want to cast wail of the banshee once with a 19+X DC?".<br />
<br />
:I'm pretty ok with those trade offs in a VH game, but it is very inappropriate for games that don't like that sort of power. I admit to not considering the interactions with metamagic reducers, but I don't support there existence (not even in principle) and don't want to design around them. I may add a note that no spell that benefits from this metamagic may have it's overall metamagic cost reduced by any means though, because that can get a bit nuts. And I could see an argument for bumping it to +5 spell levels, but nothing on the order of innate spell. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 05:27, 1 April 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Cantrips ==<br />
<br />
They could probably be +1. +2 for DMs uneasy with the idea of having an ability all day long. --[[User:Aarnott|Aarnott]] 20:00, 17 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:A large number of them certainly could, but I don't think all of them work there. +3 sets inf healing via Cure Minor at level 5, any lower is earlier than I think people are really interested in cutting out natural healing and stories where you spend some time wounded between fights because supplies run low. This is also a proof of concept for MisterSinister's TOToM, and his cantrips don't work with only a +1 difference.<br />
<br />
:Still, it's worth a sidebar. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] 20:07, 17 November 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Reducer Addendum ==<br />
Since you don't support reducers at all (understandable) and this is really potentially prone to reducer abuse, could we include an addendum in a Special section that explicitly calls this out? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 11:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Battlecaster,_Tome_(3.5e_Class)&diff=194881Battlecaster, Tome (3.5e Class)2013-04-23T17:55:14Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{author<br />
|author_name=For Valor<br />
|date_created=30 July 2010<br />
|status=Needs edits and critique<br />
|editing=<br />
|balance=Wizard<br />
}}<br />
<div class="blank"><br />
[[Summary::A caster with a small spell list (decided by spheres and domains) and spell slots that replenish by attacking.]]<br />
[[Length::12]]<br />
[[Minimum Level::1]]<br />
[[Base Attack Bonus Progression::Poor]]<br />
[[Fortitude Save Progression::Poor]]<br />
[[Reflex Save Progression::Good]]<br />
[[Will Save Progression::Good]]<br />
[[Class Ability:Spontaneous Arcane Spellcasting]]<br />
[[Class Ability Progression::Full]]<br />
<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Lawful Good]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Lawful Neutral]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Lawful Evil]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Neutral Good]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Neutral]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Neutral Evil]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Chaotic Good]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Chaotic Neutral]]<br />
[[Allowed Alignments::Chaotic Evil]]<br />
</div><br />
<br />
==Battlecaster==<br />
<br />
Battlecasters have a small spell list and very few spells, but can use them indefinitely, provided they recharge their spell slots with attacks.<br />
<br />
===Making a Battlecaster===<br />
<br />
Battlecasters can fulfill many roles for a party, depending on their selected spheres and domains. Their poor BAB makes recharging difficult, however, and they can be useless for more than a couple rounds in combat.<br />
<br />
'''Abilities:''' Battlecasters favor their mental stat (you get to pick it), and also favor one to-hit stat (either strength or dexterity). Constitution is always nice.<br />
<br />
'''Races:''' Any race that has to deal with conflict and combat (read: all races) is suitable to become a battlecaster. Preferrably ones with a bonus to a mental stat.<br />
<br />
'''Alignment:''' Any.<br />
<br />
'''Starting Gold:''' As PHB Sorcerer<br />
<br />
'''[[SRD:Race Descriptions#Starting Age|Starting Age]]:''' Moderate<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
|+<br />
<div>{{Anchor|Table: The Battlecaster}}</div><br />
Hit Die: d6<br />
|-<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level<br />
! rowspan="2" | [[BAB|Base<br/>Attack Bonus]]<br />
! colspan="3" | [[SRD:Saving Throw|Saving Throw]]s<br />
! rowspan="2" | Special<br />
! colspan="11" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
|-<br />
! [[SRD:Saving Throw#Fortitude|Fort]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Reflex|Ref]] || [[SRD:Saving Throw#Will|Will]]<br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> || 2<sup>nd</sup> || 3<sup>rd</sup> || 4<sup>th</sup> || 5<sup>th</sup> || 6<sup>th</sup> || 7<sup>th</sup> || 8<sup>th</sup> || 9<sup>th</sup> || 10<sup>th</sup><br />
|-<br />
|1st||class="left" | +0 || +0 || +2 || +2<br />
| class="left" | First Sphere, Armored Caster<br />
|1||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|2nd||class="left" | +1 || +0 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | Sphere Ability, Bonus Fighter Feat<br />
|1||—||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|3rd||class="left" | +1 || +1 || +3 || +3<br />
| class="left" | First Domain<br />
|1||1||—||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|4th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | Domain Ability, Bonus Magic Feat<br />
|2||1|||—||—||—||—||—||—||-<br />
|—|<br />
|-<br />
|5th||class="left" | +2 || +1 || +4 || +4<br />
| class="left" | Second Sphere<br />
|2||1||1||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|6th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | Sphere Ability, Advanced Learning<br />
|2||2||1||—||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|7th||class="left" | +3 || +2 || +5 || +5<br />
| class="left" | Second Domain<br />
|2||2||1||1||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|8th||class="left" | +4 || +2 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | Domain Ability, Bonus Fighter Feat<br />
|3||2||2||1||—||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|9th||class="left" | +4 || +3 || +6 || +6<br />
| class="left" | Third Sphere<br />
|3||2||2||1||1||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|10th||class="left" | +5 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | Sphere Ability, Bonus Magic Feat<br />
|3||3||2||2||1||—||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|11th||class="left" | +5 || +3 || +7 || +7<br />
| class="left" | Third Domain<br />
|3||3||2||2||1||1||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|-<br />
|12th||class="left" | +6/+1 || +4 || +8 || +8<br />
| class="left" | Domain Ability, Advanced Learning<br />
|W*||3||3||2||2||1||—||—||—<br />
|—<br />
|- class="noalt"<br />
| colspan="42" class="skill" |<br />
'''Class Skills ([[Skill Points::4]] + [[SRD:Intelligence|Int]] modifier per level, &times;4 at 1st level)'''<br/> <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Balance Skill|Balance}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Bluff Skill|Bluff}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Climb Skill|Climb}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Concentration Skill|Concentration}} ([[SRD:Constitution|Con]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Craft Skill|Craft}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Decipher Script Skill|Decipher Script}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Diplomacy Skill|Diplomacy}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Escape Artist Skill|Escape Artist}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Forgery Skill|Forgery}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Gather Information Skill|Gather Information}} ([[SRD:Charisma|Cha]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Heal Skill|Heal}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Jump Skill|Jump}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Knowledge Skill|Knowledge (Arcana)}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Listen Skill|Listen}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]) <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Profession Skill|Profession}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Search Skill|Search}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Sense Motive Skill|Sense Motive}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Speak Language Skill|Speak Language}} (None), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Spellcraft Skill|Spellcraft}} ([[SRD:Intelligence|Int]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Spot Skill|Spot}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Survival Skill|Survival}} ([[SRD:Wisdom|Wis]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Swim Skill|Swim}} ([[SRD:Strength|Str]]), <br />
{{Property Link|Skill|SRD:Tumble Skill|Tumble}} ([[SRD:Dexterity|Dex]]).<br />
|}<br />
<br />
*A "W" instead of a number of spells/day for spells of a certain minimum access level means that spells of the indicated minimum access level can be cast at-will.<br />
<br />
====Class Features====<br />
<br />
All of the following are class features of the battlecaster.<br />
<br />
'''Weapon and Armor Proficiency:''' Battlecasters are proficient with all simple weapons and light armor. They are not proficient with any type of shield. Armor and shields interfere with a battlecaster's movements, which cause his spells with somatic compoments to fail occasionally.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Spells}}:'''A battlecaster casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from a spell list created by his chosen spheres and domains. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below). <br />
<br />
To learn or cast a spell, a battlecaster must have a score for one of his mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma: Pick one and stick with it) equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + (the first level a battlecaster gains access to his spell + 1)/2 + the modifier for the battlecaster's chosen mental ability score. Battlecasters do not gain extra spells per day for having a high mental ability score.<br />
<br />
A battlecaster's selection of spells is extremely limited. He begins knowing one 0th-level spells and all the spells from one Sphere or Field that he chooses. At every level, a battlecaster learns one more 0th-level spell. Upon reaching 3rd level, 7th level, and 11th level, a battlecaster may choose a domain and add all the spells of that domain to his spell list. The minimum access level of a domain spell is its (spell level x 2) - 1. Upon reaching 5th level and 10th level, a battlecaster may choose a sphere or field and add the spells of that sphere or field to his spell list at their normal minimum access levels.<br />
<br />
Unlike a wizard or cleric, a battlecaster need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, provided he has not used his his spell slots per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he will cast.<br />
<br />
A battlecaster can replenish his spell slots by making a successful attack. During a battlecaster's turn in which he does not use any spells, and makes an attack roll that deals at least 1 point of lethal damage, he can spend a swift action to end the durations of all spells he has cast that are still in effect and replenish three of his spell slots. These spell slots are usable after the end of the battlecaster's turn.<br />
<br />
The battlecaster recieves 10th-level spell "slots". These do not allow the battlecaster to use epic spells, but instead allow them to cast spells from spheres that requires 19th level to access.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Armored Casting}}:''' The battlecaster does not suffer penalties for casting spells in any armor he is proficient with.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Sphere Ability}}:''' At levels 2, 6, and 10, a battlecaster gains the special ability of the sphere or field whose spells he added to his spell list most recently. If the sphere or field has abilities that upgrade based on basic, advanced, or expert access, the battlecaster gains all the abilities.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Bonus Fighter Feat}}:''' At levels 2 and 8, a battlecaster gains a bonus feat. This must be a fighter bonus feat and the battlecaster must meet the prerequisites.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Domain Ability}}:''' At levels 4, 10, and 12, a battlecaster gains the special ability of the domain whose spells he added to his spell list most recently.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Bonus Magic Feat}}:''' At levels 4 and 10, a battlecaster gains a bonus feat. This must be a metamagic or item creation feat and the battlecaster must meet the prerequisites.<br />
<br />
'''{{Anchor|Advanced Learning}}:''' At levels 6 and 12, a battlecaster can add a spell from any base class spell list to his spell list. The highest level spell a battlecaster can learn this way is equal to half his level, rounded up.<br />
<br />
===Battlecasters after level 12===<br />
All battlecasters take a prestige class after level 12, having learned all that they can from their battlecasting roots. Their spell progression follows the table below:<br />
<br />
{| class="zebra d20"<br />
! rowspan="2" | Level !! colspan="11" | [[#Spells|Spells per Day]]<br />
|-<br />
! 1<sup>st</sup> || 2<sup>nd</sup> || 3<sup>rd</sup> || 4<sup>th</sup> || 5<sup>th</sup> || 6<sup>th</sup> || 7<sup>th</sup> || 8<sup>th</sup> || 9<sup>th</sup> || 10<sup>th</sup><br />
|-<br />
|13th<br />
|W||3||3||2||2||1||1||—||—||—<br />
|-<br />
|14th<br />
|W||W||3||3||2||2||1||—||—||—<br />
|-<br />
|15th <br />
|W||W||3||3||2||2||1||1||—||—<br />
|-<br />
|16th<br />
|W||W||W||3||3||2||2||1||—||—<br />
|-<br />
|17th<br />
|W||W||W||3||3||2||2||1||1||—<br />
|-<br />
|18th<br />
|W||W||W||W||3||3||2||2||1||—<br />
|-<br />
|19th<br />
|W||W||W||W||W||3||2||2||1||1<br />
|-<br />
|20th<br />
|W||W||W||W||W||3||3||2||2||1<br />
|}<br />
<br />
----<br />
{{3.5e Base Classes Breadcrumb}}<br />
[[Category:3.5e]]<br />
[[Category:User]]<br />
[[Category:Class]]<br />
[[Category:Base Class]]<br />
<br />
{{Navboxes}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rithaniel/Denizen_of_Valiancy_(3.5e_Race)&diff=194873User talk:Rithaniel/Denizen of Valiancy (3.5e Race)2013-04-23T17:11:04Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>Why does the race with a Charisma penalty get a bonus to Diplomacy, and the race with a bonus to Charisma get an ability that prevents them from talking? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 17:11, 23 April 2013 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Rithaniel/Denizen_of_Valiancy_(3.5e_Race)&diff=194872User talk:Rithaniel/Denizen of Valiancy (3.5e Race)2013-04-23T17:10:42Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "Why does the race with a Charisma penalty get a bonus to Diplomacy, and the race with a bonus to Charisma get an ability that prevents them from talking?"</p>
<hr />
<div>Why does the race with a Charisma penalty get a bonus to Diplomacy, and the race with a bonus to Charisma get an ability that prevents them from talking?</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Dungeons_and_Dragons_Wiki_talk:The_Same_Game_Test&diff=193382Dungeons and Dragons Wiki talk:The Same Game Test2013-03-13T00:30:58Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>== "Using Your Results" Word-age ==<br />
Should the levels of balance be re-written from "monk, fighter, rogue, wizard" in the last section of the SGT article to "low, medium, high, very high" or are they preserved for a reason? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 00:30, 13 March 2013 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Questions ==<br />
<br />
How can we be certain the Same Game Test is accurate, when D&D's balance point is a party of four of mixed class? --[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 12:02, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:;Taken from somewhere else I wrote, but relevent here:<br />
<br />
:{{quote<br />
|Challenge Ratings for NPCs:<br />
An NPC with a PC class has a Challenge Rating equal to the NPC’s level.<br />
|orig=Dungeon Master's Guide, page 37}}<br />
<br />
:The same thing means that a level X PC '''should be''' a CR X creature. So a level 5 Barbarian should be a CR 5 creature. And a level 8 Monk should be a CR 8 creature. And a level 7 Wizard should be a CR 7 creature. With me so far? I didn't go too fast? Alright, let's move on.<br />
<br />
:Two creatures of the same CR are supposed to be at around the same level of power, and when they directly face each other with neither having an overwhelming advantage (like fighting in a pit full of lava against a fire elemental), the victor should be completely random. That is, on average, the victor between the two creatures should be each of the creatures, 50% of the time. With trial combats between the two, one creature should win half the time, and the other should win half the time. Why? Because they're supposed to both be of equal power. This means that the Same Game Test attempts to balance classes '''according to the DMG'''.<br />
<br />
:No, a single monster of a CR equal to the average level of a party is ''not'' supposed to be a major threat.<br />
<br />
:{{quote<br />
|Challenge Rating<br />
This shows the average level of a party of adventurers for which one creature would make an encounter of moderate difficulty. Assume a party of four fresh characters (full hit points, full spells, and equipment appropriate to their levels). Given reasonable luck, the party should be able to win the encounter with some damage but no casualties. For more information about Challenge Ratings, see pages 36 and 48 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide.<br />
|orig=Monster Manual, page 7}}<br />
<br />
:{{quote<br />
|A single monster of a specific Challenge Rating when faced by itself has an Encounter Level about equal to its Challenge Rating.<br />
|orig=Table 3-1, Dungeon Master's Guide, page 49}}<br />
<br />
:{{quote<br />
|The average adventuring group should be able to handle four challenging encounters [of an Encounter Level equal to the party level] before they run low on spells, hit points, and other resources.<br />
|orig=Dungeon Master's Guide, page 50}}<br />
<br />
:This means that if a party faces a single creature with a CR equal to the party level, they should expend approximately 20-25% of their resources for the day. That's not a very hard challenge, and virtually none of the PCs risks dying. No, a whole party should '''not''' win only 50% of the time against a monster that has a CR equal to their party level. It should be a breeze for them. Only when a character is alone against a monster of his CR should he have a chance of dying, and then 50% of the time, since it comes down purely to the dice on who wins and who dies (since the PC is supposed to be of the same CR as the monster, by the book).<br />
<br />
:Thus, a PC who passes the Same Game Test is '''balanced''' according to the DMG. However, not all PC classes are balanced. Monks and Fighters are usually far below in power than creatures of equal CR. Wizards, Druids, and Clerics are often far higher in power than creatures of equal CR. The page you linked in the article that this talk page belongs to tries to explain that. So... yeah. Not only is the "system" right, but it doesn't design anything. Instead, it attempts to detail out the power levels of certain things. It explains how the system works.<br />
<br />
:;This means that a character should be able to take on n same EL encounter by himself, and win 1/2 the time, since he is supposed to represent the same threat as the encounter. However, CR and EL is out of whack and doesn't really work, so... *shrug* The SGT only really works if you assume that the system works. But if you assume that, then it works great.<br />
: --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 12:11, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: The problem with that argument is that the DMG's not accurate when it says CR = NPC level. The developers admit this:<br />
::{{quote<br />
|Reason I hate the drow #2: They’re basic humanoids, so I have to build them with class levels. The rule that says “an nth-level NPC is a CR n monster”… well, let’s just say that the rule isn’t beyond reproach. It’s true of some classes within some level ranges, but it’s simply not accurate as a general rule. I don’t think any designer will tell you with a straight face that a 1st-level NPC wizard is a good challenge for four 1st-level PCs. (Better hope the NPC gets that sleep spell off, huh?) So my low-level drow have 1 point of CR vanish into thin air, and they lose more oomph because they’re built with class levels.<br />
|orig=Design &amp; Development: Let’s Get Small: Adventure Design, Part 1[http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060210a]}}<br />
::--[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 15:08, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Drow are supposed to have LA. The issue in that case is with the drow, not the system. Also, what he's saying ("It’s true of some classes within some level ranges, but it’s simply not accurate as a general rule") is exactly what the Same Game Test points out as a flaw in the system; that works for rogues and similarly powerful classes (PsyWar, Swordsage, etc.), doesn't work (classes are too strong) for wizards, druids, and the like, and also doesn't work for fighters, monks, and the like, but this time because they are too weak. The SGT is a method for balancing homebrew classes that says that this (“an nth-level NPC is a CR n monster”) should apply to all classes over all levels. We know that this ("the DMG's... says CR = NPC level") isn't accurate, but that's because the designers made certain classes poorly, not because the system is flawed. I don't think that was quite as succinct as it could have been, but do you get where I'm coming from? -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 16:00, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I see the logic behind the Same Game Test. However, there's a complicating factor: what if the class' effectiveness changes when it's in a group? Consider a "Healer" class, who may be balanced or even overpowered when in an adventuring party, but would fail the Same Game Test nine times out of ten. Likewise, when my 3.5 game had a bard, we counted how much bonus damage his music contributed and it worked out to as much as the party average. Solo, he'd fail the test because his class is less powerful when he's not tested as part of a group. --[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 17:38, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::That is a worthwhile thing to note and is a complicating factor for the test. I know there is some discussion going on about the [[Marshal (3.5e Class)]] for that very reason. Check out the talk page if you are interested. The same game test is a standard to balance things to. We will need a more sophisticated standard for more complicated things. For most classes, however, they can solo just as well as they do in a party and the test works fine. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 17:59, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Ugh, Arnott beat me to it, but here you go anyway.<br />
::::::Having a non-subjective measure against which you can judge a class's relative merit is worth quite a lot when you're trying to keep power levels in the same range and avoid the problems you admit the base system has. Just because it fails in the case of classes that don't do as much directly doesn't mean we should drop the test, though it is a good case for expanding it. [[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel's]] [[Marshal (3.5e Class)|Marshall]] has exactly this problem, and there have already been suggestions made on how to expand or alter the test to account for it. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 18:14, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::A non-subjective measure is a great idea. The difficulty is making sure the measure is accurate. It's not just support classes that work differently a party than solo, but monsters too. Some have area attacks which work better against a party, some are more deadly when they survive longer due to not being outnumbered, and some are weak to standard group tactics like flanking. Conversely, few monsters are actually weaker against one man than against four.<br />
:::::::The problem of course is that to test a class alongside three comrades (so that the test is accurate to real D&D conditions), how do you ensure those comrades don't contaminate the test results? If you use only classes previously proven balanced for his comrades, how do you test those first without picking their comrades? --[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 20:17, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::You have actually read the test and aren't just complaining about it on principle right? It is, in order: a 'trap' that's likely to kill you if you can't disable or avoid it, a big boring hard hitting melee monster with reach, a flying monster that can kite you all day, a closet / ambush monster who murders you if you can't detect it, a potentially tactical well defended melee monster, a pair of creatures who are weak in melee but carry mental SoDs, a creature who is weak in melee but has lots of supporting creatures and fort SoDs, a large group of slightly weaker melee monsters with reach, and a load of individually weak creatures that happen to be insubstantial and could overwhelm you. Which is basically all of the stuff that you just complained about it not measuring with the exception of the thing that I've already admitted probably needs to be addressed. It's not designed to test the monsters, so whether they function better against a party or not is pretty moot. It generally ignores puzzle monsters as well, because they're not consistently challenging.<br />
::::::::The 4 man balance point you mentioned above did not work when the game came out, and it doesn't work now. It really falls apart because you have to account for atypical party composition and play styles as well as bizarre class feature synergies. I think there may be room in the SGT for a couple of '5th wheel' tests where we drop the class into a pre-determined encounter with a pre-determined party, but those really can't replace examining the class on its own against challenges that are actually appropriate for their level. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 21:22, September 20, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::The four man balance point is a correct balance point, because that's how Dungeons & Dragons is played. That point isn't incorrect just because it's harder to reliably test than SGT. A test may be ''precise'' without being ''accurate''.<br />
:::::::::Same Game Test is only proven valid if solo and group performance are proven equatable. This could be true, but the article I read doesn't prove that this is the case.<br />
:::::::::Example: Suppose a class passes SGT with a 50% rating, but anyone who uses the class in a game finds it underpowered. Is the game at fault, or the test? --[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 07:01, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::: It works since the balance of a group is determined by its individual members. How they synergize can come into play, but unlike 4e, 3.x classes are for the most part made to be self-encapsulating and don't affect other party members too much (with an [[Marshal_(3.5e_Class)|occasional exception]], during which you'd be right that the SGT doesn't work well). It is also accurate, since a character of a certain level should be at around the same power as an encounter of the same level (see the quotes from the DMG above). Furthermore, someone who passed the SGT is going to be fine against equivalent encounters in a standard party (by definition), unless everyone else is using Tome material and/or are wizards/clerics/druids, since the power of someone who can pass the SGT is about that of a Tome of Battle class (Swordsage, Warblade, Crusader, etc). --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 07:19, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Well, this discussion is on its descending end, but I simply feel I must add my own two cents. The Same Game Test fully achives what it attempts to do: test a character against a menagerie of challenges, to see if they are able to remain on par with 50% of them. Though, the real question is "If a class doesn't do anything by itself, how can it be tested by this system?" The answer is simply "Pair them with a class that beats the SGT evenly, and then double the power of the test." A few example of this 'doubling' are detailed below:<br />
<br />
:::::::::::*A hallway filled with magical runes ''(No change, if you can't get past em, you can't get past em)''. <br />
:::::::::::*Two Fire Giants ''(Hells yes)''.<br />
:::::::::::*Two Young Blue Dragons ''(I love the smell of Ozone in the morning)''.<br />
:::::::::::*Two Bebiliths. ''(Yeah, you're screwed)''.<br />
:::::::::::*Two Vrocks ''(Royally Screwed)''.<br />
:::::::::::*Two tag teams of Mind Flayers ''(Must've interrupted their football game)''. <br />
:::::::::::*Two Evil Necromancers ''(Probably Boyfriend/Girlfriend)''. <br />
:::::::::::*12 Trolls ''(Not a good time for the matches to be wet)''. <br />
:::::::::::*Two hordes of Shadows ''(ie. A very dark room)''.<br />
<br />
:::::::::::Well, having said that, you could also adjust the test to allow for parties of 3 characters (one standard, two buffers), or even four or five, and the test should hold true as a testing mechanism, of course, then there is also the question of making sure a party of 'two standard, one buffer' doesn't make things go off the charts. Now then, for the cases of unbalanced parties, well, honestly, there is no way to test that, because the values you are looking at are completely subjective, and therefore merely an academic exercises about a paticular group. Take away from this what you will, I just hope I cleared something up. Also, two more things, this section shouldn't be headed 'Inaccuracies', it should be headed 'Questions', for accuracy, and, if a class passes the SGT, then, in a game, feels underpowered, then you probably aren't playing the class correctly (taking bad feats, underoptimizing, etc.) &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:#A30506; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 08:56, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
''Reverting indentation''<br />
:People have probably said this already, but one of the ideas behind the SGT is that not every class or build will win out over some of the same general types of encounters (bruisers, casters, groups, high-mobility enemies, etc.) Ideally, using a SGT you'd be able make a party that covers the varieties of encounters and let the party handle what they can reasonably expect to see. <br />
:I've seen people suggest testing a four-man group (for pretty much the same reasons you've said), JD, but the general feeling is it'd be too many variables and wouldn't let you check specific characters to see if they're under/overperforming. I wouldn't want to play a character who can't keep up with the rest of the group, and not many people want to play in a game where one character wins everything for the party, you know? --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 11:48, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'm sorry JD, but DnD is not only played as a 4-man group game. It was an assumption made by the designers that is simply a ridiculous overgeneralization that leads to massive gaps in testing. It may be a common way to play, but attempting to test against it leaves out or ignores so many variables as to make it both less accurate and precise. Even if that wasn't the case, and you could safely ignore all non-4-man-groups in testing, it suffers an inability to identify the individual contributions of each member to ensure that they are keeping up with each other and not simply playing second fiddle in a symphony that works just as well without them.<br />
::So let's use a monk as an example, since he can easily be placed in a 'standard' party that passes a 4-man test. The designers did something like that anyway when they decided that it was a great class. That character is really weaker than the rest of the party, and I would say that it is the fault of the test for not picking it up precisely because it can be passed in spite of his not pulling his weight. That character could also have been placed in a party with a wizard, cleric, and druid, and would have been largely unnecessary and the test still wouldn't have seen it, because that group would pass. Do these cases mean that the class is balanced and fine in the right party, in spite of player complaints that it's not powerful enough or that he's just "running around distracting enemies while everyone else does the real work" (a real complaint from the last time I caved and let someone play a monk, at level 10)? As a counter example, he could be placed in a party with a paladin and a fighter and a barbarian and been almost as useful as everyone else, but the group probably wouldn't pass the test. Is that a failure of the group, or the class, or both?<br />
::The test you're proposing lacks the precision and granularity to find issues and also the accuracy to fail groups with bad apples but otherwise good coverage. You can take SGT results and stack them up on top of each other and get a good sense of how a group of characters will be able to deal with general challenges, because you will see the individual gaps that may or may not be filled by the additional group members. You can't go the other way with a 4-man test, and that major failing combined with incorrect assumptions about 'how the game is played' really do make it a non-starter. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 16:37, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Here's one hypothesis. Take a party of Fighter/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard and run these through Same Game Test as a baseline group. Next, replace one character with the class you want to test, and run the Same Game Test the same way. If average party efficacy goes up or down, we can measure this as the difference between the new character and the character he has replaced. By measuring only the difference between two classes, you can have an accurate reading in a context closest to real play where balance is most important. If Ghostwheel's argument above is correct, class synergies in 3E are only a minor factor, so what classes you pair them with won't matter too much.<br />
<br />
:::I think testing in a group of four is reasonable. The average 3E group has between 3 and 6 players, surely. Larger and smaller groups exist, but I'm certain that four-man is more commonly played than one-man.<br />
<br />
:::One-man SGT sounds like a good way to test a character's challenge rating as an NPC. This reveals that certain core classes are significantly weaker as solo opponents than Level = CR would suggest, which most D&D writers would agree with. Compare the [[SRD:Titan]] to a level 21 fighter and I'm certain you'll find the fighter woefully underpowered. I'm just not certain this means a level 21 fighter needs to be beefed up to the level of a Titan.<br />
<br />
:::Certainly it's not true that character level always equals challenge rating, or else we wouldn't have level adjustment. --[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 18:44, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::I actually don't agree with Ghostwheel on the synergy point, but it's not really relevant at the moment. I don't think either of us is going to make any actual progress until someone sits down and does the test as you think it should be done so that it can be held up to more substantial scrutiny (instead of this theoretical back and forth), which it will either weather and prove me wrong or crack under. As I have neither any interest in it nor the time to do it, I'll leave that as an exercise for someone else.<br />
::::You mention the Titan against a 20 fighter, and that the fighter would get stomped, or charmed, or mazed, or something equally nasty and loss causing pretty much all of the time. That alone does not mean that a fighter needs to be boosted, and suggesting so suggests a misunderstanding of what the SGT tells us. We don't care about individual results on the SGT, but only the aggregate results. We care about the fact that a fighter can't deal with '''''any''''' of the CR 20 challenges in an even way. On average, he loses to everything at that level, and as such he needs something if he's going to be more relevant at that level than a torchbearer. He may need to be boosted by artifact swords or by taking the leadership feat so he's really a fighter and a slightly weaker wizard who walks around making up for his shortcomings, but he does need to be boosted (and as these solutions generally involve you not playing a fighter anymore but a sword or a follower, I find them quite distasteful).<br />
::::He may not need to be boosted to the level of a Titan, because the Titan may live in a specific role environment that isn't appropriate for the fighter, but he does need help if you want his level to mean anything. Back in 2e when you had different xp tracks and your level didn't mean as much as your xp total it was completely fine for an equal level fighter to be worse than an equal level wizard, because it took less to get there. Since the game has moved on to a point where the entire party is supposed to be roughly equal in power if they are of the same level (not that they can't be specialized in an area, but it needs to even out), that doesn't fly anymore.<br />
::::No one here will dispute that character level is not always equal to challenge rating, and you could hold up a monk or barbarian or spellthief or warmage or lots of other things as proof without even bringing up the poorly done system that is LA. The point of this guideline is that it '''''should''''' be the case, because if it does work out then the game proceeds more smoothly for all involved and we have fewer people complaining about not feeling like they contribute. I'll grant you that the game doesn't always work like this and you don't have to follow this if you don't like it or are more concerned about other things (you can seriously ignore this for your own work and we will still offer whatever criticism we can to help you get to whatever balance point you want), but as a guideline it works very well for making sure that new homebrew classes aren't out of line with existing challenges or reasonable class builds. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 20:00, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::Okay,<br />
:::::#Level '''''SHOULD''''' always be equal to CR, despite the fact that many core classes fail overwhelmingly at this.<br />
:::::#Yes, Fighter sucks, thank you for pointing that out.<br />
:::::#LA is an asinine concept, and whoever thought of it should have been fired.<br />
:::::Thank you. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:#A30506; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 23:52, September 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
::::::As a totally superfluous side note, I think Sean K. Reynolds has claimed the whole LA system as his idea/writing. Something like that. --[[User:Genowhirl|Genowhirl]] 02:19, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::#If level should equal CR, when it does not, then the balance point defined by SGT is going to be significantly higher than the normal standard for Dungeons & Dragons. That'll create a new tier of special high-powered classes.<br />
::::::#Same Game Test doesn't take into account the amount of damage the fighter enables by taking hits for his party, and the amount of time he buys by tripping the enemy. I won't deny that it's one of the weakest core classes, but it may not be as weak as it seems.<br />
::::::#I concur that level adjustment doesn't work well. Here's a great example: Sean K. Reynolds' ''Anger of Angels'' features the Seraph, a CR4 creature with 4HD and LA +9. It's an ECL13 character with a host of special abilities, none of which make it more powerful in practice than a level 4 cleric.<br />
<br />
::::::Suppose the titan is the benchmark for a level 21 warrior-type class. The fighter already has some of the right attributes:<br />
::::::*370HP (for example, d12 hit dice with 30 Con)<br />
::::::*AC32 (+3 Dex, +13 ''fullplate +5'', +5 natural armour, +5 deflection, +2 insight AC)<br />
::::::*+37/+32/+27/+22 to hit (+21 base, +10 from Str 30, +5 magic weapon, +2 feats)<br />
::::::*Saves at +26/+13/+21 (+11/+6/+6 base, +10/+3/+3 Con/Dex/Wis, +5 cloak, +5 will misc)<br />
<br />
::::::To match the titan, he would also need to gain something equivalent to:<br />
::::::*Damage reduction 15 to something rare<br />
::::::*SR32 (about half of all magic misses)<br />
::::::*41 damage per hit on average (2d6+34: +10 Str, +5 magic, +5 feats, and 14pts or 4d6 from elsewhere)<br />
::::::*Offensive spells at will, including ''chain lightning'', ''fire storm'', ''charm monster'', ''greater dispel magic'', ''hold monster'' - around DC22, so not very effective against CR20 monsters<br />
::::::*Defensive spells at will, including ''invisibility'' and ''cure critical rounds''<br />
::::::*Quickened ''chain lightning'' each round for 20d6 or 70 damage; CR20 will pass the save easily so this amounts to about 38 damage to one target and 19 to every other.<br />
::::::--[[User:Jonathan Drain|Jonathan Drain]] 11:25, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Point by point:<br />
:::::::#No, there is no "new" tier. There are just [[Fighter, Tome (3.5e Class)|fighters]] that are on par with wizards, which freaks the crap out of people who don't know any better.<br />
:::::::#You assume the fighter is going to be able to do these things (take hits, trip, etc.). If he's a great tripper, chances are he's blown most of his feats getting to that point and can't do much else (Spiked Chain, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, etc.). In said case, how does he combat flying monsters or quadrupeds? What happens when highly mobile monsters ignore him due to his need to get close while they focus on everyone else? If he's got the right feats (Stand Still, etc.) to be a zone controller so that he can dictate what enemies do, that still requires that he gets close and it's also no guarantee of control, while wizards could just cast ''forcecage''. The equivalence is just not there. Monsters that teleport at will get around him as well, so I guess the point is your intangible benefits, while not fake, do not make the SGT any worse of a predictor because the same would apply to other fighter-types who can pass the SGT (warblade, for example) with closer to the expected efficiency. <br />
:::::::#N/A<br />
:::::::#Regarding the titan: the fighter doesn't need to match the titan at anything. He just needs to be able to beat 50% of encounters with a CR equal to his level. If titans whoop his ass every time, that's fine, as long as he wins other combats. The problem with the core fighter is it can't. <br />
:::::::Adding superfluous text here so that the next post lines up more indented-like. -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 13:35, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::Level already '''does''' equal CR for a subset of the classes, and you could look over [[Dungeons_and_Dragons_Wiki:Balance_Points#Rogue_Level|here]] for some of them. All that setting that as the standard would do is make sure that new stuff and corrections to old stuff get on the same balance point as existing well balanced material. This isn't some new ultra powered balance point that's different from a non-existent and not defined 'normal' balance point in DnD. It's just a rejection of the current situation where some classes are allowed to be weaker than others in every area of the game all of the time. It's a rejection of the idea that if you go out and you get the same XP as the guy next to you that you're allowed to suck more than he does in every area of the game all of the time because your class is different than his. It really is not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 17:30, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I like the SGT because,<br />
:::::::::*Helps newbie's create classes that can defeat unique challenges. Not just a sword-wielding humanoid.<br />
:::::::::*A passing class can survive challenges more often. Which is more fun for everyone in the group.<br />
:::::::::*Teaches that every class should see itself acting alone, at least once, without the parties cleric or wizard.<br />
:::::::::*Encourages breadth, depth, and feedback.<br />
:::::::::I dislike the SGT because,<br />
:::::::::*Ignores party play when testing alone.<br />
:::::::::*<s>Encourages a one-man army. Should the tested class pass >50% challenges.</s><br />
:::::::::I take this system with a grain of salt. I do not consider it perfect. I do think it is a positive learning experience. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 19:08, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Isn't it also important to note that some of the encounters listed in the SGT are likely not intended for an evenly balanced character to be able to take one-on-one (I would be referring to creatures that most players would probably regard as party killers such as dragons, titans, maybe drow, and similarly powerful beings). So maybe if your class can breeze through said encounters, it seems logical to guess that it may be overpowered instead of having a class that can win against the not-so-tough encounters but struggles against dragons and the like. Basically, Jay, it's not encouraging a one-man army; if anything, it seems to me like this test would simply be the red light to tell the player that their class/build qualifies as such. - [[User:ThunderGod Cid|TG Cid]] 20:56, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::::That makes sense TG. No class is meant to win more than half of the encounters. Good call. --[[User:Jay Freedman|Jay Freedman]] 22:40, September 22, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Every encounter on the SGT list is within 1 EL of the level it's for, taking into account that some monsters are awesome and have their CR understated. Dragons, for instance, have their CRs consistently understated by 4, so a CR 6 dragon is listed as a level 10 challenge in accordance with its real CR.<br />
: As for "4th Man" tests, the Gaming Den had a discussion a while back [http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=51958|here]. The conclusion was that they were too much work for the marginal improvement in accuracy. --[[User:IGTN|IGTN]] 00:37, September 23, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Other Options ==<br />
<br />
If the character challenging the SGT has other options instead of attempting to fight and defeat the creature (sneaking past, being invisible, flying around it) would it still be considered a loss? What about if they have the ability to get away from the enemy almost at will? Would it still be considered an actual loss if they don't die? Just because if the only way to "defeat" encounters were to actually kill the enemies, the rogue would have no chance of passing the SGT without a flanking partner. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 02:45, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I would argue that if they can automatically trivialize the encounter in any way, then it is a win (whether or not they kill it). The DMG says that exp is awarded if a fight can be avoided. If you earn exp, you have defeated the encounter. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 02:53, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Agreed mostly. A class that can teleport probably wins the hallway if it can see the end and skip the traps because it has bypassed them and moved on. Being able to run away is not the same as being able to get past the encounter though, and in cases where escape is trivial but moving forward is not, I would argue it is a loss. Which of those fit those criteria in the SGT is a good question. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 03:32, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: IMO it a loss, a using wand of invisibility and a scroll of silence could get you by most low-level encounter. Making say, a human paragon a wizard-level class (it not), a character should be able to defeat the encounter not avoid it. Also some encounter cannot be avoided, like a animated statue ready to crush the nearby town (Cr 5) if you avoid it you win? Nah it going to raze the town. The key of the treasure of GAHHAHAHLHA is around the mummy neck? Bypassing the mummy won't let you win. Avoiding a encounter is far to circumstantial to be a valid tactic for metagaming observation. --Leziad 03:39, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: That would be a class using wizard-level tactics, and we know that wizards don't pass the SGT (they beat it), so that doesn't really work. Rather, the SGT is meant to measure a character's/class's inherent abilities, not the stuff they can pick up from other classes. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:42, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: A human-paragon gain UMD (they can) and most will. It not like picking stuff from other classes, it not a valid tactic to pass the SGT imo. --Leziad 03:56, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: In theory, you can do this with any class. 4 ranks in UMD (at 2 skill points per rank) + 2 (masterwork item) + 5 (2.5k magic item) + 1 (charisma) = +12 to UMD, more than enough to UMD a wand. Does that mean all classes can beat the SGT without a problem? Of course not. They're just borrowing the wizard's tricks. Instead, one should focus on class abilities instead, rather than borrowing stuff from other classes. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:10, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::And if you're doing Tome rules, Product of Infernal Dalliance + Greater Teleport (won't help at fifth level in most cases (no feat selection), but still) will allow some classes that otherwise could not pass the SGT to mutilate it... -- [[User:Jota|Jota]] 05:48, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::: Eh, most stuff in the Tomes doesn't pass the SGT, with the Base Classes in the Dungeonomicon being an exception. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 07:22, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::I take back what I said. Leziad is right -- combat encounters should be considered combat encounters. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] 13:47, September 28, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::Why do people think that jesters and assassins aren't better than the Races of War classes? Remember, UMD exists - it's to be used.<br />
<br />
== Cleaning up the SGTs ==<br />
<br />
So having just stared at this again, it stood out that the 5 and 15 SGTs don't really match up well to the level 10. There's more stuff in them, and more things that look like the same encounter types with different creatures. I want to edit them down a bit so that there is less overlap. I'll probably post them here first as soon as I have them sorted. But before I go spend time on it, anyone opposed? - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 18:17, April 20, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: About the 15 SGT, would [[Talk:Griffon_Rider_(3.5e_Prestige_Class)#SGT_Results|any player with a half-decent ranged attack and flight with a decent speed]] be rogue-level? Still a few specifics there that I don't agree with, but that ... doesn't sound right. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:51, April 21, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::In an outdoor campaign, maybe. There's lots of times where flight actually doesn't matter at all, they're just not well specified in the SGTs. I should probably assign default terrain to some of these as well (which I sorta assume anyway) so that it tests what we think it tests and not some other thing. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 04:13, April 21, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: Mind weighing in on the talk page above? Seems like it's possible to do the above, which, like I said, doesn't really sound right... --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 05:46, April 22, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Maybe later. I don't even have a direction to take it in that would be helpful. It's not the same game at level 15 that it was at 10 unless you're playing low rogue or below, and that whole page is attempting to treat it like nothing changed in 5 levels and the same tricks work. Which is the whole point why fighter types don't keep up, if the same tricks worked they'd be fine (and often are, ish, in fighter level games). Actually explaining that turns out to be really hard though. I need to spend more time dissecting the SGT and work through some edition confusion (wall of force won't let you sphere anymore? wtf?) before I can call BS / support / whatever anything over there. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 15:27, April 22, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Level 5 - Updated===<br />
<br />
So, the first one has been brought back in. If you feel that anything was missed or should be brought back or is decidedly unfair or whatever, please say something. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 00:41, June 19, 2010 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Simplified_Races_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)&diff=185812Talk:Simplified Races (3.5e Variant Rule)2012-11-01T08:35:19Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Bonus Damage in Combat Abilities */</p>
<hr />
<div>== More Races ==<br />
<br />
Any requests for specific races? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 13:59, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There are about a billion sub-races of elf. Start with those?--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 19:37, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll request the planar ones (aasimar, tiefling, genasi), but there's no rush on them. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 00:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: As far as the sub-races, for the most I'll simply say to use the base elf. It fits most of them well enough. That said, I'll probably add the drow at some point (5+HD SR, I'm thinking as a passive ability). I'll also add the aasimar and tiefling soon, though I'm not sure if I should make the genasi a single race (and give different specific effects depending on the flavor) or a different entry for each one.<br />
::: All the planetouched have been added. Anything else? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:11, July 4, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::'''Kobolds''' come to mind. '''Hobgoblins''', '''bugbears''', '''gnolls''', yuan-ti*, xvarts, githyanki*, githzerai*, pixies, '''orcs''', kuo-toa*, sahuagin, '''lizardfolk'''/trogdolytes (not sure I should be grouping those together). Dragonborn, perhaps, or their like. Bold denotes things I'd consider more as staples to the D&D world (excluding the product identity stuff). Merfolk and mongrelfolk are possibilities, I suppose. Not sure if shifters/weretouched/were-anything should or could be covered under this variant.<br />
<br />
::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Denotes product identity; not sure how that would affect a decision to rebuild them under this variant. -- [[User:Jota II|Jota]] 19:21, July 4, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Attribute Bonuses ==<br />
<br />
Is there any way to factor those in? Rather than the standard "+2/-2", what about +2 to one variable attribute? For instance, Elves get +2 to Dexterity OR Intelligence, Half-Orcs get +2 to Strength OR Constitution, Humans get +2 to any attribute, Dwarves get +2 to Constitution OR Wisdom, etc.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 19:37, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't know why you'd want to. Mental boosts are worth more than physical boosts, any sort of boost / penalty tends to diminish consideration of races for classes outside those that are benefited by their boosts, and the boosts are worth substantially more under a scaling cost point buy system. They just don't do anything particularly good and have several minor problems. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 20:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Any reason apart from affecting the DCs of spells traditionally that mental boosts are worth more than physical boosts? And Tavis, any good counterarguments on why/how ability boosts would be be a good thing without necessarily shoehorning races into specific character classes? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 22:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's the big one, though it's also that a +1 to save DC is just bigger than a +1 to AC or attack or HP because of how the systems scale. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 22:58, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::@Tarkis- I dislike changing races because classes are imbalanced. I suggested a variable bonus to compliment class consideration, rather than harm it. This may adversely impact a point buy system, but should the method of character creation govern whether or not a class or race is balanced in gameplay? As it stands, the current change reflects a homogenizing of the races, which I dislike. Not to say that the current races are better or that these are bad, but the simplified races seem bland to me.<br />
<br />
::::@Ghostwheel- By chosing (to a limited extent) where your bonus goes, it gives you more options. An elf that picks Dex vs Int has more options than one that gets Dex and loses Con. A player might actually play a Dwarf cleric or paladin (which alledgely exist already) if he got +2 Wis, rather than -2 Cha. As it stands, people will still likely pick the same races for the same rolls. Furthermore, some of the abilities (Elvish Precision, Powerful Build) already encourage people to play certain class/race combinations. Just saying.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 23:01, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: So why not just increase the point buy instead of letting all players have an extra +2 to put anywhere? Is there any real difference between the two, apart from allowing you to break the 18 cap at first level? (And should it even be allowed to be broken? Don't primarily only SAD classes break it, and they're usually much more powerful than other classes anyway?) And sure, some of the abilities nudge people towards a certain concept, but I don't think they completely decide it--you could easily play a half-orc wizard, and not be much worse than someone playing an grey elf one, while in the usual races virtually no one would ever play a half-orc wizard, or even a half-elf one if they could be a grey elf. So while there's some nudging, I don't think it's quite as restrictive and shoehorning as the "usual" race rules are. What do you think? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 23:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Some points:<br />
::::::*"I dislike changing races because classes are imbalanced." I don't actually see why you'd want to ignore races just because classes were imbalanced. If anything, the imbalance of classes is a reason ''to'' modify races. If you can't effectively use a race in a powerful class and are instead stuck to the weaker classes because of racial abilities or lack thereof, then the race itself will be valued poorly in high power games. The imbalance of classes looks to be a reason to avoid building races into class straightjackets, and since the standard setup does that it appears to be a reason to change it.<br />
::::::*Point buy is intended to be balanced, and it is less so with no-cost modifiers that you put on top of your existing scores purchased with scaling costs. If costs were linear this wouldn't be an issue actually, but in the normal point buy system this gives you a variable number of bonus points.<br />
::::::*I don't see this as a homogenization, as they don't have a lot of shared abilities. It's probably a standardization, in that they all get the same number of the same types of things. And I'll give you that this page is bland because it's so consistent and rules dense, but also because it's lacking fluff text entirely. The mechanics themselves are fine, and if this was stuck at the bottom of a regular racial writeup that helped explain why they got the abilites they got I imagine it would be much less bland.<br />
<br />
::::::I didn't say the problems with attribute mods were big ones, just that they were there and they didn't add anything to the game. I don't know how a race getting +2 to physical stat or +2 to mental stat is anymore flavorful than the stuff that Ghost already has here. It seems like passive number shuffling that doesn't actually add any options to the race or impact their tactics in a fight, just what classes they're going to take.<br />
<br />
::::::If you want some numbers that different races get to add to different things, why not a variable skill bonus instead? +2 to 3 skills from some racial list or something? - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 23:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::@Tarkis- Like I said (or was trying to say), variable bonuses are a step towards freeing races from class restrictions, while allowing races to retain bonuses that set them apart. That being said, if Ghost elected to include them, I'd hope it would be in addition to what he already has down rather than replacing it. As for the "blandness" of the rules, I wasn't refering to lack of fluff but to the content of the rules themselves. A dwarf is always a dwarf, not once per encounter (part of the reason I would like attribute bonus included). As for variable skill bonuses, that's not a bad prize. I had thought of suggesting it, but was going to wait for this debate to simmer down before adding more to the pot.<br />
<br />
:::::::Are your thoughts of race balance based purely on high power games? If so, we'll likely never reach an agreement, beacuse we don't have balance points for races, and we should. We're trying to force a static system onto a fluid framework. <br />
<br />
:::::::@Ghostwheel- These rules certainly encourage more class/race diversity that the current ones, no arguement here. As for point buy, I actually don't use it. 4d6 rolled seven times, drop the lowest. That's just me though. If you're creating these rules specifically to be used with point buy, increasing it certainly isn't a bad idea, but the suggestion wasn't simply to make PCs more powerful (and thusly I can't say if I agree of disagree). I do, however, find it acceptable to allow someone to exceed a score of 18 at first level (by virtue of a racial modifier mind you).<br />
<br />
:::::::Everything I'm trying to suggest is an addition to what Ghost has already laid out. I'm not suggesting he remove things, merely add them. My heart isn't really in a long drawn out debate like I entertain with Storm for that very reason. I like what is there already, I just want there to be more.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 00:09, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::We shouldn't have balance points for races, because they should all be roughly equal (within their LA / ECL bracket) to make them equally viable choices in a game. Racial bonuses do set them apart, but they diminish the ability of a race to be an equally viable choice in all classes, and thus in all game types. I don't think it's worth it for differentiation purposes, not where there's ability or whatever differentiation to take it's place. I'd actually be really happy with racial stat maximums though, and getting some differentiation in that way, but that's not on the table here and probably shouldn't be.<br />
<br />
::::::::I guess we'll just disagree on the blandness of the rules though. I rather like them, though I think they're a bit austere. A dwarf in this is always a dwarf in this, and once per encounter he can call on that dwarfness to do stuff. If he wasn't a dwarf he wouldn't have access to it, and the access is what makes him dwarfish. The access is always there, even if the ability has been used. I wouldn't turn down an additional passive ability for each race though, just to increase individual feel a bit more. And they could maybe use some level based advancement, but it's not especially important to me. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 00:40, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: As I said on the intro, you/the DM can add all the misc bits if you want to--though I'm not sure how often the elf immunity to ghoul paralysis comes up... And the current abilities of most of the races were hard enough to come up with--do you want to come up with one more passive one for every race? :-P --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:45, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I was wondering if you had thought about incorporating these simplified race's abilities into the Original Race rebuilding? I think that would be fairly awesome to be able to pick some of these instead of something like Bonus Feat. Not sure how many slots each would be worth though.[[Special:Contributions/108.13.212.160|108.13.212.160]] 05:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::: Not particularly--I see them as two separate variants, and while one can use both I suppose, I feel as though the races would be a little too powerful if one did so. These days I prefer just using this one, since it makes people equal and leads to less optimization. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]]<br />
<br />
== Drow Utility ==<br />
<br />
So, I'm a drow. I create darkness in my square and the squares adjacent to me. I then move thirty feet away. Does the darkness effect move with me? [[User:Quilliard|Quilliard]] 20:38, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Negative. Stays where you created it. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 22:32, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: A rarer piece of knowledge regarding drow: they have horrible flatulence. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 23:13, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Humans? ==<br />
<br />
The races are supposed to be more-or-less balanced, but in a recent game I started running 4/5 players chose to become human. This leads me to think that humans are overpowered in this variant, which means that they need to be nerfed. Any thoughts on this matter? And how should they be nerfed? Two ideas that came to mind is to choose a feat at first level and to get it until the end of your next turn with a move action, and the other is getting a variable feat once per encounter and that it lasts for 3 rounds.<br />
<br />
Thoughts? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:02, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Everyone else has a limited combat shtick, so that's probably the right track. I have no idea how long fights last in your games, but 3 rounds of "this feat I really want right now" sounds on the long end of duration for something so customizable. It also sounds like something I'd take over most of your races 1/encounter fixed abilities. Maybe the ability to use 1 [fighter] or similar combat feat for 1 minute 1/day would work better, since they'd be trading flexibility for frequency and not be worried about running out of time once they activated it. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 04:05, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hrmm, what if it was for 1-2 rounds? Most combats take 4-8 (usually 6-8) rounds, but if even ''that'' sounds better than most others races' abilities I might tone it down further. And allowing fighter feats would still give characters a martial maneuver 1/encounter or the like. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I think that sounds better than any of the other racial combat things you have down. Those are situationaly useful. This is useful in any situation where my knowledge of feats (which has to be admittedly large) allows me to find one. I see this being used more than the other ones, and being more useful than them at the same time since it's customized to circumstances. Hence the 1/day suggestion.<br />
<br />
:::You could also just give them a non-reselectable bonus feat at 1st and be done with it. It doesn't have the same limited thing as the others, but it just allows them to be slightly more combat powerful, in the same way that the options provided in the other races allow them to be slightly more powerful. I'm not sure if any of your players are using the reselect aspect though, so this might not actually resolve your issue. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 05:54, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I don't see them reselecting either, so that's not really the problem here. It's just that a permanent bonus feat seems to be stronger than any other race on the page :-/ --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 06:00, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I think it's weaker actually (especially out the gate, less so as you level), but it's better if you need feats for a particular build, or just want to hit your build shtick sooner. So I don't think it's really a power issue, just a "standard operating procedure" issue. It's also easier to work into a build than a new, and possibly counter-synergistic, option, but that doesn't make it stronger than adding another option. Given what you seem to want, I think you need to just make it a specific ability. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 17:33, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: So you think that humans are good as-is, and people only picked them because they're not used to the new rules? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 01:00, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::That they're more used to "get an early feat for my build requirements" than "incorporate new encounter ability into strategy" is what I'm suggesting. It moves up your shtick acquisition by a couple of levels, which people seem to want. If you're looking for a particular build as soon as you can get it, the feat is going to look more appealing even though it's very likely less powerful. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 16:44, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::I am kind of confused about the human's bonus feat. In the beginning of the page it says ''"Humans get only a single bonus feat at level one, rather than two."'' First off, regular SRD humans only get one bonus feat at level one, unless you consider the automatic level one feat that all races get to be a bonus feat, which then it makes slightly more sense (the automatic level one feat can be reassigned at the beginning of the day). Am I missing something? [[User:The Dire Reverend|The Dire Reverend]] 11:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: Fix'd --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 16:46, 11 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Idea to combine with race rebuilding ==<br />
<br />
Make each race get 5 points to spend on abilities. They must spend at least 1 point on each type. Abilities cost 3 (really good ability), 2 (good ability), or 1 (average ability) point. So, using some examples from the page here:<br />
<br />
* Elf - Elvish Precision 2, Keen Senses 2, Agile Grace 1<br />
* Gnome - Infuse Energy 3, Small 1, At Hand 1<br />
* Half-Orc - Burning Rage 2, Furious Charge 1, Two Worlds in One 2<br />
<br />
Something like that. That might also help balance out templates (halflings might have to give up a better ability than "small" to become a daywalker -- they might be disallowed from trading small because it is worth less than Vampiric Toughness). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:50, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Could be, though I think that adds too much complexity for what I'm shooting for... --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 01:00, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Surgo<br />
|rating=neutral<br />
|reason=Not a bad take, but I don't think it really does what it promises. For example, catfolk still make the best fighting men after level 6. There's no numerical advantage, but the ability provides a benefit that's far and away better for fighting men than almost any other ability on the page would.<br />
<br />
Ultimately, I don't believe the shoehorning is avoidable and would like to see some acknowledgment of it. It is better than the shoehorning provided by races with stat modifiers (we can finally have orc spellcasters now yay), but it still exists.<br />
<br />
Also, I just can't get behind a system where you can't put a 20 in a stat to start.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=DanielDraco<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Huh. Yeah, this is a much better way to do things. I think any races I write in the future will take this approach.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Havvy<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Simplifying the practical anarchy of rules that is 3.5e races in such a way that they get the meat of what makes the game fun: powers, leads to better enjoyment and less jumping through hoops to find statistical bonuses. It also removes the pitfalls of level adjustment and monstrous hit dice that came with [[Publication:Savage Species|Savage Species]].}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=ThunderGod Cid|rating=favor|reason=Although I slightly contributed to this page, that doesn't take away from the merits of its premise. You get the bulk of what people want in a race without jumping through all the hoops of Level Adjustment and/or Racial Hit Dice, and races still manage to be unique and flavorful. All in all, it offers a lot of solid options; now it just needs more.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=MisterSinister|rating=favor|reason=This is one of the best implementations of races that I have read. I'm a full subscriber to this philosophy, and believe that it's the best way to avoid shoehorning people into race-class pairs, but at the same time make it so that people playing different races feel different. While I find the ability listing a bit arbitrarily-weighted (but that's just Ghost's focus on combat and numbers talking again), the basic premise is very good.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Foxwarrior|rating=like|reason=For the sorts of races that WotC seems to like; that is, lots of different creatures that are basically humanoid, this variant rule distills everything that is interesting about such races down into a concise, mechanically interesting, and distinct trio of abilities, instead of the numeric nonsense that 3.5e generally uses. Such a sorting mechanism also makes it easy to design new races for campaign-specific purposes on the go. However, it's not a very nice system for making really weird races, like birds, bees, and bouncy castles.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Aarnott|rating=favor|reason=This allows just so many more options than the traditional race rules without being more complex. I love the fact that each race offers a unique feel, but also doesn't straightjacket towards any particular class. }}<br />
<br />
== Skill ranks ==<br />
<br />
For the catfolk passive ability, it states that they are considered to have a number of ranks in the climb and jump skills equal to their HD + 3. Do these skill ranks qualify them for feats, prestige classes, and the like, much as normal ranks do? [[User:Paleomancer|Paleomancer]] 23:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yes. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Darkvision ==<br />
<br />
Only tieflings have any sort of darkvision or low light vision. Why?<br />
<br />
:Probably because it's a pretty boring ability to have as only one of three.<br />
:Given the balance of night vision in D&D normally, it would probably be more accurate to give Humans Night Blindness instead. --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 02:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::But it seems that darkvision is very important for races such as drow or dwarves, if for nothing more than flavor. Is there any way to incorporate minor abilities like that?<br />
<br />
== Bonus Damage in Combat Abilities ==<br />
<br />
It seems to me that the range of effectiveness for racial bonus damage (specifically elemental bonuses versus, say, stealth attack bonuses) are pretty far divided. The genasi, for example, get elemental bonus damage when dealing damage of that element once per encounter--so that's a somewhat strenous requirement to fulfill for damage that could very well resisted or immunity'd away. The goblin, on the other hand, gets an equal amount of ''untyped'' bonus damage ''on every attack'' in the first round of combat. Especially at the higher levels, I see a strong distinction between goblin meleers and air genasi thunder mages.<br />
<br />
I feel like the some of the damage abilities should be toned down or up, because they really don't match up well. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 02:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Alternatively, that air genasi could just use a shocking sword :-P<br />
: That said, you're not always going first, which is why the goblin gets a bigger boost while the air genasi, taking into consideration their ability and having ways to activate it, will almost always get it off in combat which is why it's slightly stronger. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 07:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I don't think that's balancing. At higher levels, the damage type the genasi deals (iff they use electricity attacks, only once per encounter) is one that every outsider basically has immunity to, but the damage the goblin deals doesn't allow DR or ER or anything, and comes off ''any'' kind of attack. Being able to only do that on the first round means the goblin will at be doing very potent damage 8/10 combats, while the air genasi is stuck doing piddly damage 2/10 combats. --08:35, 1 November 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Simplified_Races_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)&diff=185718Talk:Simplified Races (3.5e Variant Rule)2012-11-01T02:06:54Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Bonus Damage in Combat Abilities */ new section</p>
<hr />
<div>== More Races ==<br />
<br />
Any requests for specific races? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 13:59, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:There are about a billion sub-races of elf. Start with those?--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 19:37, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::I'll request the planar ones (aasimar, tiefling, genasi), but there's no rush on them. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 00:42, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::: As far as the sub-races, for the most I'll simply say to use the base elf. It fits most of them well enough. That said, I'll probably add the drow at some point (5+HD SR, I'm thinking as a passive ability). I'll also add the aasimar and tiefling soon, though I'm not sure if I should make the genasi a single race (and give different specific effects depending on the flavor) or a different entry for each one.<br />
::: All the planetouched have been added. Anything else? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 18:11, July 4, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::'''Kobolds''' come to mind. '''Hobgoblins''', '''bugbears''', '''gnolls''', yuan-ti*, xvarts, githyanki*, githzerai*, pixies, '''orcs''', kuo-toa*, sahuagin, '''lizardfolk'''/trogdolytes (not sure I should be grouping those together). Dragonborn, perhaps, or their like. Bold denotes things I'd consider more as staples to the D&D world (excluding the product identity stuff). Merfolk and mongrelfolk are possibilities, I suppose. Not sure if shifters/weretouched/were-anything should or could be covered under this variant.<br />
<br />
::::<nowiki>*</nowiki>Denotes product identity; not sure how that would affect a decision to rebuild them under this variant. -- [[User:Jota II|Jota]] 19:21, July 4, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Attribute Bonuses ==<br />
<br />
Is there any way to factor those in? Rather than the standard "+2/-2", what about +2 to one variable attribute? For instance, Elves get +2 to Dexterity OR Intelligence, Half-Orcs get +2 to Strength OR Constitution, Humans get +2 to any attribute, Dwarves get +2 to Constitution OR Wisdom, etc.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 19:37, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:I don't know why you'd want to. Mental boosts are worth more than physical boosts, any sort of boost / penalty tends to diminish consideration of races for classes outside those that are benefited by their boosts, and the boosts are worth substantially more under a scaling cost point buy system. They just don't do anything particularly good and have several minor problems. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 20:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Any reason apart from affecting the DCs of spells traditionally that mental boosts are worth more than physical boosts? And Tavis, any good counterarguments on why/how ability boosts would be be a good thing without necessarily shoehorning races into specific character classes? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 22:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::That's the big one, though it's also that a +1 to save DC is just bigger than a +1 to AC or attack or HP because of how the systems scale. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 22:58, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::@Tarkis- I dislike changing races because classes are imbalanced. I suggested a variable bonus to compliment class consideration, rather than harm it. This may adversely impact a point buy system, but should the method of character creation govern whether or not a class or race is balanced in gameplay? As it stands, the current change reflects a homogenizing of the races, which I dislike. Not to say that the current races are better or that these are bad, but the simplified races seem bland to me.<br />
<br />
::::@Ghostwheel- By chosing (to a limited extent) where your bonus goes, it gives you more options. An elf that picks Dex vs Int has more options than one that gets Dex and loses Con. A player might actually play a Dwarf cleric or paladin (which alledgely exist already) if he got +2 Wis, rather than -2 Cha. As it stands, people will still likely pick the same races for the same rolls. Furthermore, some of the abilities (Elvish Precision, Powerful Build) already encourage people to play certain class/race combinations. Just saying.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 23:01, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::: So why not just increase the point buy instead of letting all players have an extra +2 to put anywhere? Is there any real difference between the two, apart from allowing you to break the 18 cap at first level? (And should it even be allowed to be broken? Don't primarily only SAD classes break it, and they're usually much more powerful than other classes anyway?) And sure, some of the abilities nudge people towards a certain concept, but I don't think they completely decide it--you could easily play a half-orc wizard, and not be much worse than someone playing an grey elf one, while in the usual races virtually no one would ever play a half-orc wizard, or even a half-elf one if they could be a grey elf. So while there's some nudging, I don't think it's quite as restrictive and shoehorning as the "usual" race rules are. What do you think? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 23:25, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Some points:<br />
::::::*"I dislike changing races because classes are imbalanced." I don't actually see why you'd want to ignore races just because classes were imbalanced. If anything, the imbalance of classes is a reason ''to'' modify races. If you can't effectively use a race in a powerful class and are instead stuck to the weaker classes because of racial abilities or lack thereof, then the race itself will be valued poorly in high power games. The imbalance of classes looks to be a reason to avoid building races into class straightjackets, and since the standard setup does that it appears to be a reason to change it.<br />
::::::*Point buy is intended to be balanced, and it is less so with no-cost modifiers that you put on top of your existing scores purchased with scaling costs. If costs were linear this wouldn't be an issue actually, but in the normal point buy system this gives you a variable number of bonus points.<br />
::::::*I don't see this as a homogenization, as they don't have a lot of shared abilities. It's probably a standardization, in that they all get the same number of the same types of things. And I'll give you that this page is bland because it's so consistent and rules dense, but also because it's lacking fluff text entirely. The mechanics themselves are fine, and if this was stuck at the bottom of a regular racial writeup that helped explain why they got the abilites they got I imagine it would be much less bland.<br />
<br />
::::::I didn't say the problems with attribute mods were big ones, just that they were there and they didn't add anything to the game. I don't know how a race getting +2 to physical stat or +2 to mental stat is anymore flavorful than the stuff that Ghost already has here. It seems like passive number shuffling that doesn't actually add any options to the race or impact their tactics in a fight, just what classes they're going to take.<br />
<br />
::::::If you want some numbers that different races get to add to different things, why not a variable skill bonus instead? +2 to 3 skills from some racial list or something? - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 23:30, July 2, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::@Tarkis- Like I said (or was trying to say), variable bonuses are a step towards freeing races from class restrictions, while allowing races to retain bonuses that set them apart. That being said, if Ghost elected to include them, I'd hope it would be in addition to what he already has down rather than replacing it. As for the "blandness" of the rules, I wasn't refering to lack of fluff but to the content of the rules themselves. A dwarf is always a dwarf, not once per encounter (part of the reason I would like attribute bonus included). As for variable skill bonuses, that's not a bad prize. I had thought of suggesting it, but was going to wait for this debate to simmer down before adding more to the pot.<br />
<br />
:::::::Are your thoughts of race balance based purely on high power games? If so, we'll likely never reach an agreement, beacuse we don't have balance points for races, and we should. We're trying to force a static system onto a fluid framework. <br />
<br />
:::::::@Ghostwheel- These rules certainly encourage more class/race diversity that the current ones, no arguement here. As for point buy, I actually don't use it. 4d6 rolled seven times, drop the lowest. That's just me though. If you're creating these rules specifically to be used with point buy, increasing it certainly isn't a bad idea, but the suggestion wasn't simply to make PCs more powerful (and thusly I can't say if I agree of disagree). I do, however, find it acceptable to allow someone to exceed a score of 18 at first level (by virtue of a racial modifier mind you).<br />
<br />
:::::::Everything I'm trying to suggest is an addition to what Ghost has already laid out. I'm not suggesting he remove things, merely add them. My heart isn't really in a long drawn out debate like I entertain with Storm for that very reason. I like what is there already, I just want there to be more.--[[User:Tavis McCricket|Tavis McCricket]] 00:09, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::We shouldn't have balance points for races, because they should all be roughly equal (within their LA / ECL bracket) to make them equally viable choices in a game. Racial bonuses do set them apart, but they diminish the ability of a race to be an equally viable choice in all classes, and thus in all game types. I don't think it's worth it for differentiation purposes, not where there's ability or whatever differentiation to take it's place. I'd actually be really happy with racial stat maximums though, and getting some differentiation in that way, but that's not on the table here and probably shouldn't be.<br />
<br />
::::::::I guess we'll just disagree on the blandness of the rules though. I rather like them, though I think they're a bit austere. A dwarf in this is always a dwarf in this, and once per encounter he can call on that dwarfness to do stuff. If he wasn't a dwarf he wouldn't have access to it, and the access is what makes him dwarfish. The access is always there, even if the ability has been used. I wouldn't turn down an additional passive ability for each race though, just to increase individual feel a bit more. And they could maybe use some level based advancement, but it's not especially important to me. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 00:40, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: As I said on the intro, you/the DM can add all the misc bits if you want to--though I'm not sure how often the elf immunity to ghoul paralysis comes up... And the current abilities of most of the races were hard enough to come up with--do you want to come up with one more passive one for every race? :-P --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:45, July 3, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::I was wondering if you had thought about incorporating these simplified race's abilities into the Original Race rebuilding? I think that would be fairly awesome to be able to pick some of these instead of something like Bonus Feat. Not sure how many slots each would be worth though.[[Special:Contributions/108.13.212.160|108.13.212.160]] 05:08, September 8, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::::: Not particularly--I see them as two separate variants, and while one can use both I suppose, I feel as though the races would be a little too powerful if one did so. These days I prefer just using this one, since it makes people equal and leads to less optimization. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]]<br />
<br />
== Drow Utility ==<br />
<br />
So, I'm a drow. I create darkness in my square and the squares adjacent to me. I then move thirty feet away. Does the darkness effect move with me? [[User:Quilliard|Quilliard]] 20:38, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Negative. Stays where you created it. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 22:32, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: A rarer piece of knowledge regarding drow: they have horrible flatulence. --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 23:13, August 17, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Humans? ==<br />
<br />
The races are supposed to be more-or-less balanced, but in a recent game I started running 4/5 players chose to become human. This leads me to think that humans are overpowered in this variant, which means that they need to be nerfed. Any thoughts on this matter? And how should they be nerfed? Two ideas that came to mind is to choose a feat at first level and to get it until the end of your next turn with a move action, and the other is getting a variable feat once per encounter and that it lasts for 3 rounds.<br />
<br />
Thoughts? --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 03:02, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Everyone else has a limited combat shtick, so that's probably the right track. I have no idea how long fights last in your games, but 3 rounds of "this feat I really want right now" sounds on the long end of duration for something so customizable. It also sounds like something I'd take over most of your races 1/encounter fixed abilities. Maybe the ability to use 1 [fighter] or similar combat feat for 1 minute 1/day would work better, since they'd be trading flexibility for frequency and not be worried about running out of time once they activated it. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 04:05, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Hrmm, what if it was for 1-2 rounds? Most combats take 4-8 (usually 6-8) rounds, but if even ''that'' sounds better than most others races' abilities I might tone it down further. And allowing fighter feats would still give characters a martial maneuver 1/encounter or the like. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I think that sounds better than any of the other racial combat things you have down. Those are situationaly useful. This is useful in any situation where my knowledge of feats (which has to be admittedly large) allows me to find one. I see this being used more than the other ones, and being more useful than them at the same time since it's customized to circumstances. Hence the 1/day suggestion.<br />
<br />
:::You could also just give them a non-reselectable bonus feat at 1st and be done with it. It doesn't have the same limited thing as the others, but it just allows them to be slightly more combat powerful, in the same way that the options provided in the other races allow them to be slightly more powerful. I'm not sure if any of your players are using the reselect aspect though, so this might not actually resolve your issue. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 05:54, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: I don't see them reselecting either, so that's not really the problem here. It's just that a permanent bonus feat seems to be stronger than any other race on the page :-/ --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 06:00, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::I think it's weaker actually (especially out the gate, less so as you level), but it's better if you need feats for a particular build, or just want to hit your build shtick sooner. So I don't think it's really a power issue, just a "standard operating procedure" issue. It's also easier to work into a build than a new, and possibly counter-synergistic, option, but that doesn't make it stronger than adding another option. Given what you seem to want, I think you need to just make it a specific ability. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 17:33, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::: So you think that humans are good as-is, and people only picked them because they're not used to the new rules? *headtilt* --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 01:00, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::That they're more used to "get an early feat for my build requirements" than "incorporate new encounter ability into strategy" is what I'm suggesting. It moves up your shtick acquisition by a couple of levels, which people seem to want. If you're looking for a particular build as soon as you can get it, the feat is going to look more appealing even though it's very likely less powerful. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 16:44, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::I am kind of confused about the human's bonus feat. In the beginning of the page it says ''"Humans get only a single bonus feat at level one, rather than two."'' First off, regular SRD humans only get one bonus feat at level one, unless you consider the automatic level one feat that all races get to be a bonus feat, which then it makes slightly more sense (the automatic level one feat can be reassigned at the beginning of the day). Am I missing something? [[User:The Dire Reverend|The Dire Reverend]] 11:38, 11 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::: Fix'd --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 16:46, 11 May 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Idea to combine with race rebuilding ==<br />
<br />
Make each race get 5 points to spend on abilities. They must spend at least 1 point on each type. Abilities cost 3 (really good ability), 2 (good ability), or 1 (average ability) point. So, using some examples from the page here:<br />
<br />
* Elf - Elvish Precision 2, Keen Senses 2, Agile Grace 1<br />
* Gnome - Infuse Energy 3, Small 1, At Hand 1<br />
* Half-Orc - Burning Rage 2, Furious Charge 1, Two Worlds in One 2<br />
<br />
Something like that. That might also help balance out templates (halflings might have to give up a better ability than "small" to become a daywalker -- they might be disallowed from trading small because it is worth less than Vampiric Toughness). --[[User:Aarnott|Andrew Arnott]] ([[User Talk:Aarnott|talk]], [[Special:EmailUser/Aarnott|email]]) 18:50, October 9, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Could be, though I think that adds too much complexity for what I'm shooting for... --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 01:00, October 10, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=Surgo<br />
|rating=neutral<br />
|reason=Not a bad take, but I don't think it really does what it promises. For example, catfolk still make the best fighting men after level 6. There's no numerical advantage, but the ability provides a benefit that's far and away better for fighting men than almost any other ability on the page would.<br />
<br />
Ultimately, I don't believe the shoehorning is avoidable and would like to see some acknowledgment of it. It is better than the shoehorning provided by races with stat modifiers (we can finally have orc spellcasters now yay), but it still exists.<br />
<br />
Also, I just can't get behind a system where you can't put a 20 in a stat to start.<br />
}}<br />
{{Rating |rater=DanielDraco<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Huh. Yeah, this is a much better way to do things. I think any races I write in the future will take this approach.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Havvy<br />
|rating=favor<br />
|reason=Simplifying the practical anarchy of rules that is 3.5e races in such a way that they get the meat of what makes the game fun: powers, leads to better enjoyment and less jumping through hoops to find statistical bonuses. It also removes the pitfalls of level adjustment and monstrous hit dice that came with [[Publication:Savage Species|Savage Species]].}}<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=ThunderGod Cid|rating=favor|reason=Although I slightly contributed to this page, that doesn't take away from the merits of its premise. You get the bulk of what people want in a race without jumping through all the hoops of Level Adjustment and/or Racial Hit Dice, and races still manage to be unique and flavorful. All in all, it offers a lot of solid options; now it just needs more.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=MisterSinister|rating=favor|reason=This is one of the best implementations of races that I have read. I'm a full subscriber to this philosophy, and believe that it's the best way to avoid shoehorning people into race-class pairs, but at the same time make it so that people playing different races feel different. While I find the ability listing a bit arbitrarily-weighted (but that's just Ghost's focus on combat and numbers talking again), the basic premise is very good.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Foxwarrior|rating=like|reason=For the sorts of races that WotC seems to like; that is, lots of different creatures that are basically humanoid, this variant rule distills everything that is interesting about such races down into a concise, mechanically interesting, and distinct trio of abilities, instead of the numeric nonsense that 3.5e generally uses. Such a sorting mechanism also makes it easy to design new races for campaign-specific purposes on the go. However, it's not a very nice system for making really weird races, like birds, bees, and bouncy castles.}}<br />
<br />
{{Rating|rater=Aarnott|rating=favor|reason=This allows just so many more options than the traditional race rules without being more complex. I love the fact that each race offers a unique feel, but also doesn't straightjacket towards any particular class. }}<br />
<br />
== Skill ranks ==<br />
<br />
For the catfolk passive ability, it states that they are considered to have a number of ranks in the climb and jump skills equal to their HD + 3. Do these skill ranks qualify them for feats, prestige classes, and the like, much as normal ranks do? [[User:Paleomancer|Paleomancer]] 23:59, 22 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
: Yes. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 04:24, 23 February 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Darkvision ==<br />
<br />
Only tieflings have any sort of darkvision or low light vision. Why?<br />
<br />
:Probably because it's a pretty boring ability to have as only one of three.<br />
:Given the balance of night vision in D&D normally, it would probably be more accurate to give Humans Night Blindness instead. --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 02:28, 22 August 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::But it seems that darkvision is very important for races such as drow or dwarves, if for nothing more than flavor. Is there any way to incorporate minor abilities like that?<br />
<br />
== Bonus Damage in Combat Abilities ==<br />
<br />
It seems to me that the range of effectiveness for racial bonus damage (specifically elemental bonuses versus, say, stealth attack bonuses) are pretty far divided. The genasi, for example, get elemental bonus damage when dealing damage of that element once per encounter--so that's a somewhat strenous requirement to fulfill for damage that could very well resisted or immunity'd away. The goblin, on the other hand, gets an equal amount of ''untyped'' bonus damage ''on every attack'' in the first round of combat. Especially at the higher levels, I see a strong distinction between goblin meleers and air genasi thunder mages.<br />
<br />
I feel like the some of the damage abilities should be toned down or up, because they really don't match up well. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 02:06, 1 November 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Killoren_(3.5e_Race)&diff=185679Talk:Killoren (3.5e Race)2012-10-31T22:42:31Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Manifestation */</p>
<hr />
<div>==Manifestation==<br />
<br />
Why a swift action to change? Why not a minute or something downtimey? What's gained by letting them swap whenever? - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 23:37, 4 November 2011 (UTC)<br />
:This is late, but I was thinking about the combat form and tracker form. It's cool to have them jump into battle (like a rage sort of thing) or turn into a swift hunter and run somebody down during an escape. I also don't think a quick change gives them an undue advantage, but requiring a minute will encourage them to walk around with their fighter mode up all the time. --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 22:42, 31 October 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Anger_Point_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=185251Talk:Anger Point (3.5e Feat)2012-10-29T20:21:44Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Ratings */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=YouLostMe<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=This is something I've always wanted a feat for, but never realized I wanted a feat for it. It makes me very happy.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
== Balance Point ==<br />
This seems more like a rogue feat, because it's giving a definite bonus to Strength almost all the time for a melee combatant. Can I get a second opinion on this? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] ([[User talk:YouLostMe|talk]]) 20:21, 29 October 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Anger_Point_(3.5e_Feat)&diff=185250Talk:Anger Point (3.5e Feat)2012-10-29T20:20:26Z<p>YouLostMe: Added rating.</p>
<hr />
<div>== Ratings ==<br />
{{Rating |rater=YouLostMe<br />
|rating=like<br />
|reason=This is something I've always wanted a feat for, but never realized I wanted a feat for it. It makes me very happy.<br />
}}</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Book_of_Elements_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Races_of_the_Elements&diff=154733Talk:Book of Elements (3.5e Sourcebook)/Races of the Elements2012-03-23T23:40:13Z<p>YouLostMe: Created page with "==Minimum Levels== The minimum level schtick seems a bit off. I mean, it makes sense to have races that are strong be set back, but there are awesome abilities here and any pa..."</p>
<hr />
<div>==Minimum Levels==<br />
The minimum level schtick seems a bit off. I mean, it makes sense to have races that are strong be set back, but there are awesome abilities here and any party starting off in the high single-digit levels will play a genie because it is in every way superior to an elf.<br />
<br />
It doesn't make sense to have a minimum level without at least some sort of HD requirement as well, like the Azer.--[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] 23:40, 23 March 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Liber_Demonica_(3.5e_Sourcebook)&diff=150856Talk:Liber Demonica (3.5e Sourcebook)2012-01-14T23:58:01Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>== Minor Suggestion(s) ==<br />
If I may offer? Remove the "The" in the demon entries. It seems too repetitive. Great work so far, though, guys. :)<br />
--[[User:Silver Tongue|Silver Tongue]] 01:37, 21 December 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:First off, thanks for the vote of confidence! Second, apologies for the (very) belated response. Thirdly, consider it done, and it will be implemented within 24 hours of this post. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 20:24, 6 January 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Stuff Left to Do ==<br />
<br />
Right, so Cid and I have decided that we want to finish this before it hits its first birthday on November 17th, 2011. This is a big task, but it's an achievable task. To help up move things along, and hopefully to get some more contributors in on this work, we've made a list of 'things to do'. These are roughly in order of urgency and/or complexity, and will be crossed off the list as they are completed. <br />
<br />
As ever, any and all help will be appreciated.<br />
<br />
* Adding the possession rules for all demons that can do it.<br />
* Finish Demogorgon<br />
* Finish Pale Night<br />
* Finish mechanics for Graz'zt<br />
* Finish mechanics and fluff for Orcus<br />
* Complete invocation list for Abyssal Warlock<br />
* Complete Ravaged classes (now done)<br />
* Complete demon weapons and edit them into a more MIC-compliant format<br />
* Write rules for evil phenomena<br />
* Write the remaining variant tieflings<br />
* Add variant spells and replace the entries appropriately<br />
* Add all the planes that each lord lives on<br />
* A huge edit pass to clear up inconsistencies, bad flavour text, etc.<br />
<br />
There might well be more than this, but this is all that I could find on an initial pass. I hope that people will help us finish this work - you'll have our eternal gratitude, as well as spot on the contributor section, for doing this. I'd like to thank anyone who wants to contribute in advance - it means a lot to me, and I'm sure Cid would agree. - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 01:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Question:<br />
:* Write rules for evil phenomena<br />
:* Add variant spells and replace the entries appropriately<br />
:What did you have in mind for these? - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 03:02, 2 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::The first of these is basically 'bad shit that happens when lots of demons show up in one place'. It's a chart, with a bunch of modifiers, that determine if the weather starts going insane, if day-night patterns get disrupted, if trees set on fire, etc. Basically, it's meant to show that demonic invasions seriously screw with reality, and makes it easy for GMs to do that.<br />
<br />
::The second is basically making ''wish'', ''miracle'' and suchlike conform to Tome standards, removing XP costs from spells that have them, and also writing up ''planar binding'' and ''planar ally'' into something that doesn't shatter the game in half quite so much (again, according to Tome standards). - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 03:13, 2 September 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Ravaged of X Classes ==<br />
<br />
Design intent on the Scion of X abilities. Was it intentional that they have the top level spell 1/day, the next 3/day, and the rest at-will? If so, how come? That seems a pretty fast advancement schedule, and like they'd be throwing down some pretty serious stuff at the high end. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 04:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:It IS a fast schedule, but at the same time, I don't consider it that far out-of-line, as the abilities themselves are useful, but relatively minor. Is there something in particular that bothers you? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 21:04, 10 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::It's granting something very close to expert sphere access on the first level, and those spells aren't trivial boosts. But it's not granting it consistently. If you have any spellcaster levels you lose that access, and get new spells on your class list. They might be at a lower spell level than you previously had them, but you're still spending slots on them instead of getting them as bonus abilities. That's not a big deal for a 1/day ability, and only sort of a big deal for a 3/day ability, but unlimited castings of something relevant I care about missing out on. If I was a ravaged by abaddon spellcaster, I'd be kinda annoyed that I didn't get to spam power word stun at 15th level, but the guy with the sword can. I'd especially be annoyed if he was already playing wizard level classes. It also falls down for partial or delayed casters, the few that there are, since they lose both the full spell access and the bonus castings. I think giving 1/day to everyone, with an upgrade to 3/day after 4-6 levels, on top of adding the spells at the relevant spell levels to a caster's list works out as both more fair and better balanced to wizard. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 00:14, 11 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::Agreed. I think it does cripple the benefits this gives to sword-users, but I think you make fair points. Since the classes are all phrased in a similar manner, would a bot edit to this effect be possible? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 21:37, 16 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::Not really. There's supposed to be a way to use variables with ReplaceText that would allow for it, but I've never been able to get it to work. Since each class uses it's title in there, it'll need to be manually edited. - [[User:Tarkisflux|Tarkisflux]] <sup>[[User talk:Tarkisflux|Talk]]</sup> 22:34, 16 December 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Progress Makes a Successful Hide Check! ==<br />
<br />
Is this project going anywhere? I was really interested in this, and I would be willing to offer some help if you need it.<br />
<br />
:Currently, the answer is 'something of a no'. Thus, help is welcome if you could give it. Fact is, both Cid and I need to get off our collective asses and get something done, and a contributor would be welcome. What did you want to do? - [[User:MisterSinister|MisterSinister]] 18:33, 10 January 2012 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Yo, dawg. I heard you wanted help ==<br />
I'm interested in finishing up those variant tielfings, if you're OK with that. I get the progression necessary, but where can I find the necessary fluff for each of those names? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] 23:58, 14 January 2012 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:3.5e_Feats&diff=144201Talk:3.5e Feats2011-09-23T18:04:18Z<p>YouLostMe: </p>
<hr />
<div>==Navigation==<br />
Could you create pages for the feats instead of deleting them?<br />
<br />
I'm not sure how to create navigation pages.<br />
<br />
:The navigation pages are made automatically -- all people have to do is add their content and the stuff automatically gets put on navigation pages. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 16:51, September 9, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Any new feats that are in the User, 3.5e, and Feat categories will be added to this list automagically, though it may take up to 48 hours to be appear. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 19:28, October 9, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Updated Nav and Feat Properties==<br />
Updated the feat nav, and the columns there are the only properties I think we need to worry about adding for feats. Type covers a lot of ground and description and prereqs seem pretty standard. Prereqs will not be searchable until we get more of the semantic stuff going, but they will be in the future. I don't know if the feats are in any condition to have their properties botted, so if you feel like updating your creations please do so. I'll help with the technical bits if you need it. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 19:28, October 9, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== Overflow ==<br />
<br />
Apparently there's a hard limit of 500 feats on the table. Feats after Shapechanger's Resilience alphabetically (right now; I'm sure it will change) aren't loaded into the table no matter how you choose to sort it.<br />
<br />
How are we going to deal with this? I recommend that, instead of having one main table, we have a list of different feat types (probably with pages for all of them, or collections of related types; Combat, Skill, and tome scaling magic feats might go on one page, General, Epic, and Fighter feats on another, and so on), each with a table for all feats of that type. That should eliminate this problem for everything except the largest categories, like general, which at the very least will have the problem pushed back a bit. --[[User:IGTN|IGTN]] 22:30, May 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:We hit 500 already? Ugh, this will need more thought. The "table per type" was a big failure on paleowiki, so I don't want to repeat that. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 22:49, May 30, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::Yeah... Yay built in query limits. Some easyish solutions aside from "recode the mess":<br />
::*We can drop the custom table formatting we're doing and use the semantic wiki built in table functions, color mismatch and all (unless we can get them to change the default colors on that for us). That still suffers from the same limit, but the "...further results" link on the bottom would be more visible and when you clicked on it your results wouldn't display in table formatting. So additional stuff is still hidden, but less so.<br />
::*We can keep main table intact, but exclude specific types from it and push those into subpages. Tome feats might be a good candidate for exclussion, as might currently class specific feats (like the hivemaster stuff).<br />
::*We can do a table per balance point, though I think it's a terrible idea and should not be taken seriously.<br />
::*We can drop ask querries and move to DPLs, maybe. I'm not sure if they do all of the property listing that we have with queries or not actually.<br />
::That's all I gots right now. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 02:14, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::I thought of table per balance point, too. It is hugely problematic. Having a Tome table and a class-specific table makes sense to me, though. By the by, I'm in chat right now, and there was some brief discussion of this in the chat earlier today. --[[User:IGTN|IGTN]] 02:26, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::: First, I have a solution to this problem, which can at least be used for up to 500 feats per first letter easily, see [[Template Talk:Author]]. Secondly, it'd be really really really nice to push the class feature specific stuff like hivemaster, autoplate pilot, my new extrinsic metamagic which I haven't made into feats, etc. onto other pages, or provide another page where stuff is organized to separate out the stuff with required class features, such as the aforementioned and spellcasting. This would require a concerted, careful tagging effort. -[[User:Cedges|Cedges]] 03:09, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::The "push class-based feats out of here" is probably the best idea I've heard so far for dealing with this limit. Basically, any work-around '''requires''' that it maintains itself -- ie, works with zero oversight by anyone. That immediately rules out any "page per feat type" deal, and pretty much every other suggestion I've been given. If we can put a "class-based" tag on a feat, and then strip out that tag from the SMW query, it'll give us breathing room for...a month, I guess. If that.<br />
<br />
:::::The only real solution here is to get the limit in our config file updated. I'll send the Wikia admins a request for that. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 04:17, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::Class ability components are pretty much self-maintaining even though each new type needs to be manually added. People expect that, and manually add them. Feats can work the same way if they absolutely must; add a new feat type, add a new nav page. The downside is, though, that spelling errors then make your feat get lost. The big flaw in this idea is that there are some groups of feat type that should be listed together, like Skill and Combat.<br />
::::::That said, I like the idea of splitting off class-specific and race-specific feats. Should they have their own list, or be listed on their class page or something?<br />
::::::Splitting off Tome feats is also doable, since we have Category:Tome just sitting there, if we need to shorten things. That gets Necromantic, Fiend, Elemental, Combat, Skill, and Spellcasting feats. Not nearly enough on its own to save the main list, but they'll have room on their list for a while.<br />
::::::Also, taking all of the General and Fighter feats off the main listing on its own might be enough to give us breathing room. Epic might need its own category. These categories would be broad enough to not need to be added onto. --[[User:IGTN|IGTN]] 04:48, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::We can actually use properties as well as categories for telling the query what to include, or what to not include. So pulling specific things off the list is actually really easy, as is only including things of a specific type. Even a sub-page list for each type could maintain itself if we wanted to go that route. I'll split off the class / type specific ones for now, go from there. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 06:23, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::Or I will get super lazy and just split off general. Meh, it's working for a few days, at least until title property gets sorted. - [[User:Tarkisflux|TarkisFlux]] 06:35, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
::::::::This cuts it really close for "not General" (483/500 by my computer's count). I'm going to try to move Fighter feats to the General table to make more room (85 feats worth). Revert if it's counterproductive, edit over it if once we have a better solution. --[[User:IGTN|IGTN]] 06:43, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:::::::::This is just a patch. Our better solution is coming, which is "boost a setting in the config file". I don't want to have this same discussion in a month's time when we overflow ''again''. [[User:Surgo|Surgo]] 15:08, May 31, 2010 (UTC)<br />
<br />
== New column ==<br />
<br />
Can we have a balance level collum?--[[User:Parakee|Parakee]]<sup>[[User Talk:Parakee|Talk]]</sup> 12:48, 1 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:For the record, this is me seconding that request, and also fixing Parakee's spelling.--[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] 18:04, 23 September 2011 (UTC)</div>YouLostMehttps://dnd-wiki.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jumper_(3.5e_Class)&diff=131218Talk:Jumper (3.5e Class)2011-05-31T06:18:44Z<p>YouLostMe: /* Possible New Ability Idea */</p>
<hr />
<div>== Favor ==<br />
<br />
A great class, keeping its damage high while being the epitome of a mobile striker. This one gets my thumbs up. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 07:03, September 25, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Casper, when you get around to it can you officialize this? -- [[User:Jota II|Jota]] 21:39, December 16, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:: Bah. Bah, I say. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 22:11, December 16, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
{{RC Favor<br />
|rater=Ghostwheel<br />
|points=1<br />
|reason=A great class, keeping its damage high while being the epitome of a mobile striker. This one gets my thumbs up.}}<br />
<br />
{{RC Favor<br />
|rater=Jota II<br />
|points=1<br />
|reason=While admittedly an adaptation, which can be a bit boring, this one is quite good. Its power level is well-balanced for the intended balance point (I like the nimble strike attack bonus [denying Dexterity] compensating for the medium BAB and keeping Jump at level two where dips are less of a concern), but there are just one or two things I would like to see added or changed. First, there are a few dead levels, which is just boring. Second, which ties in with the just mentioned dead levels, there aren't many new additions that keep the class exciting at later levels. Quick Step and Muscle Memory are nice, but two intriguing abilities like these is just a bit too sparse for me, as the class starts to trend toward generic as early as level three. Any new additions wouldn't have to and probably shouldn't boost the fundamental power of the class, but I would welcome alterations that give the Jumper some new toys (and/or re-distribute the pre-existing ones as well) so that working toward the capstone is its own reward.}}<br />
<br />
{{RC Favor<br />
|rater=Ganteka Future<br />
|points=1<br />
|reason=Good class. It ''feels'' like a base class, in that, I could see this being in a supplemental book. However, some of the wording is a bit awkward in places. It doesn't inhibit understanding, it's just awkward. That said, I could see a creative player making good use of this class, or even adding it to a multi-classed character build. As Jota mentioned, the dead levels are kinda lame (level 17 doesn't get anything but a HD and skills). That just makes me curious more than anything. One last point of note: How is the encounter an encounter? Sure, it's an NPC with a personal history, but it isn't quite a combat scenario.<br />
}}<br />
<br />
{{RC Favor<br />
|rater=Sam Kay<br />
|points=1<br />
|reason=I like it; some interesting abilities, and it should play quite well. Though the dead level at 17 is "kinda lame," the others aren't too bad (+10 ft jump is quite nice). Definitely a good class.<br />
}}<br />
{{RC Favor |rater=Tarkisflux |points=1}}<br />
<br />
==Possible New Ability Idea==<br />
<br />
That Level 17 bugs me. So, I was thinking earlier, and like, '''BAM!''', idea. So, I'm gonna type it out here as a half-assed attempt to get my point across:<br />
<br />
'''Immediate Fallback Jump (Ex):''' You like, can take an immediate action to Jump 10 feet, but totally lose your Dex bonus to AC until the end of your next turn, n'stuff.<br />
<br />
It's probably a pretty cheap ability (as if you were attacked, you could just be like, "oh, immediate jump 10 feet sucka!" and thus dominate in one-on-one battles -or- if the wizard was all "get out of the damn cone of effect!" you could jump out of there lickety split). Any thoughts about this, anyone? --[[User:Ganteka Future|Ganteka Future]] 03:42, December 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
<br />
:Quick thoughts, not favoring or condemning the ability, just observations:<br />
<br />
:First, that would be reusing something that Rith has already used, although that's not to say there's anything fundamentally wrong with it in that regard. <br />
<br />
:Second, at 10 feet there will still be things that can reach you even after the jump, so it isn't that powerful. <br />
<br />
:Third, if the immediate action has to count as part of your next round (assuming you Jumped in your previous round), then you lose the ability to use Jump as an offensive weapon in the next round when it actually is your turn.<br />
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:Basically as long as the distance is relatively small I'm not convinced it is that cheap, but I'm tired and sick and I'm sure I've probably missed an angle of exploitation or two. -- [[User:Jota II|Jota]] 06:12, December 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::Well, first off, awesome enthusiasm, that put a big smile on my face, I have to admit, I liked it. Though, looking at what you got there, this ability is kind of, fragile, for level 17, since, as Jota pointed out, 10 feet isn't much, especially at that level, and then you find yourself unable to jump the next round, and that you're suddenly a more easy target to hit (though, that part is prevented with Unnatural Dodge, but that's a moot point). So, yeah, not perfect, but, it has an interesting idea behind it, I mean, I've used the idea before, after all. Having said that, I've been doing some brainstorming of my own, and I think I might have an ability that would be good for this instance:<br />
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::'''Liquid Motion (Ex):''' You may move through occupied spaces as though they were unoccupied, etc. etc. lots and lots of answers to questions like "well, can I end my turn in a space occupied by someone else?" :P<br />
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::I've got a couple of others in my head, but they're unformed currently. Any comments on this? &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:#A30506; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 19:36, December 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::Well, yeah, this leaves me with some questions on that one, Rith. First off, does that mean like, any space, friend or foe? So like, as a Jumper, I could run through a bevy of devils without problem to get to the back of them and attack an orb on a pillar or whatever (so, it ends up being like a pseudo-jump of sorts). What about stuff like Gelatinous Cubes?<br />
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:::As for the "Immediate Fallback Jump", where do you use this idea at? Also, I suppose I should explain the intent of the ability as well as why I thought it might warrant a drawback. Yeah, as an immediate action, it would take the place of his Jump for the next round, though, he would still be able to move and act as normal, and if his target were 10 feet away, he could still charge in and attack. The penalty to AC only comes into play from multiple opponents attacking him on one round. So, for example, a burley charger type leaps at the Jumper and attacks, the Jumper immediate action jumps back 10 feet. The burley charger just wasted his turn, doing nothing (that's a huge benefit to the Jumper there). Or heck, he could Jump ''behind'' the guy and then flank his opponent with a teammate when his teammate comes up in initiative. It's a great ability for tactics, but yeah, it's damn powerful. The drawback of AC penalty isn't probably necessary, but, any ability that's usable as an immediate action that basically is "no, I don't die or take damage, no need to roll a save and position myself on the battlefield" is probably better off to use than just getting additional movement in a round (especially when you want to be engaged in melee anyhow, and you could use your Quick Step to get your Nimble Strike in. Anyways, just some thoughts on that. Anyone else have any thoughts on that as well? --[[User:Ganteka Future|Ganteka Future]] 21:24, December 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
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::::Well, yeah, I still need to hammer out the specifics of it, not entirely sure if I'll even have the movement provoke AoO's or not, may need some further tweaking to make it fun. But as for the gelatinous cube thing, it could be flavored however, I mean, it's up to the player, really, I think I could whip up a quick justification for it, personally.<br />
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::::Oh, I'm using it in my WIP martial discipline, and on a couple of other classes. Though, seriously, taking a move action as an immediate/swift action is not an uncommon thing, I mean, there are even WotC things that use that sort of thing in them. A few magic items, a ToB manuever, it's all over the place freaking place. But, to respond to your question, I'd put a 10 foot teleport as an immediate action at about 9th level or so, since, before that, it'd be a bit unfair, but, after about 4 levels more, you're not gonna be able to escape with just 10 feet of movement, seeing as things after that point are either not going to be medium, are going to be casting spells that have ranges more than 500 feet, or, there are going to be a lot of them (Example: EL 14 encounter could potentially be 64 [[SRD:Thoqqua|thoqqua's]], 10 feet aint gonna help you there). I mean, yeah, the ability is good, but, in higher levels, the creaturs peel away, and you need more than 10 feet to make any difference. &rarr; [[User:Rithaniel|<span style=color:Gray; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px">Rith</span>]]<sup> [[User talk:Rithaniel|<span style=color:#A30506; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft:50px; -moz-border-radius-topleft:50px">(talk)</span>]]</sup> 22:40, December 21, 2009 (UTC)<br />
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:::::Sooo I just started looking at this problem with level 17... what's the plan here? I like Liquid Motion and Immediate Fallback Jump... can does both? --[[User:YouLostMe|YouLostMe]] 06:18, 31 May 2011 (UTC)<br />
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== Non-muscle Muscle Memory ==<br />
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Fluff-wise, why should Muscle Memory work on non-physical skills? Shouldn't it work on just Str/Dex/Con skills? I'm not seeing how muscle memory could weave into, say, a charisma skill. [[User:Aelaris|Aelaris]] 20:56, March 17, 2010 (UTC)</div>YouLostMe