Talk:Nubian Fury (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

	Ghostwheel opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Constitution is already a god stat. This makes it worse and pushes barbarians way off the RNG in a bad way. (+16 from con while raging, -2 from rage on top of everything else is even higher than what swordsages can get.)

How the hell did you get 42 con?! --Leziad (talk) 00:06, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Easy. 16 (Base) + 2 (Racial) + 6 (Item) + 5 (Wish/Manual) + 5 (Level up) + 8 (Rage) = 42. --Ghostwheel (talk) 00:10, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

So you spent pretty much half your entire WBL on boosting that constitution. You cannot wear any armor or you otherwise lose that bonus... and it 1 point better than a +5 full-plate? Color me immensely unimpressed. --Leziad (talk) 00:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

It's actually a fraction of your WBL. But let's look at the actual numbers. I've done this before, but if you want, I'll ride this pony again. Just one caveat: No animated shields. They're just incredibly cheesy, and while the math works for monster and iterative attacks when they're not used, using them makes everything go to shit and drops damage incredibly hard (due to iterative attacks) while making squishier characters fall completely off the RNG if you have a chance of hitting the heavy-armored characters. Still, if you want to give everyone +5 animated heavy shields, that's your call.

Full plate dude: 10 (Base) + 3 (Dex) + 13 (Mithral Full Plate) + 5 (Ring of Protection) + 5 (Amulet of Natural Armor) = 36 AC (18 Touch)

Nubian Fury Barb: 10 (Base) + 5 (Dex) + 8 (Bracers of Armor) + 16 (Con) - 2 (Rage) + 5 (Ring of Protection) + 5 (Amulet of Natural Armor) + 1 (Undressed) = 48 (35 Touch)

Just for the lolz, Squishy: 10 (Base) + 8 (Bracers of Armor) + 5 (Dex) + 5 (Ring of Protection) + 5 (Amulet of Natural Armor) = 33 (20 Touch) which puts them on the RNG as the heavy armored guy.

To give a sense of perspective, what characters have for attack bonuses at that level: 20 (BAB) + 12 (Str) + 1 (Weapon Focus) + 1 (Greater Weapon Focus) + 2 (Melee Weapon Mastery) + 5 (Weapon) = +36/+31/+26/+21. Those iteratives add a HUGE amount of damage, and are part of the fragile balance in 3.5 that needs to be maintained if you want non-ToB characters to remain relevant.

Sense made? Honestly, almost all of my dislikes are couched in math that I've spent a LOOOONG time doing research on. It might sound pretentious, but I know my stuff, and I often have actual math reasons why it isn't good for the game from a design perspective. --Ghostwheel (talk) 01:34, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Some more numbers: here's what it looks like from a power attack DPR standpoint. Under this, the nubian barbarian takes on average 80 DPR, while the fighter takes on average 187.5 DPR, a difference of 134%. Note that power attack remains relevant against an AC of 36, but it becomes a completely wasted feat (or one shoots themselves in the knee) when you go more than a few numbers above that. --Ghostwheel (talk) 01:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

"It's actually a fraction of your WBL." - Citation Needed.

Being one who enjoys maximizing their scores, I come in knowing that inherent bonuses are expensive as crap. This may be hyperbole on your part, but nowhere does 137,500 gp equal a "fraction" of anything but the highest of levels, not to mention the enhancement bonus items cost as well. "A fraction" sounds like a 1/4th of your value to me, and you won't reach that til 20th level. Let's be generous and say it's only 1/3. You can get that at... 18th level WBL. The horror. Even if you're getting the inherent bonuses piecemeal over time, it's still a great effort and the way the WBL works it starts slow and then starts growing, increasing dramatically as we approach 20th. So you can expect to be poor as you pour all your resources into being the Con-monster.

This example barbarian appears to be non-functional as a character for ~18 levels. That does not a good build make. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:52, 5 February 2015 (UTC)