Difference between revisions of "User:Tarkisflux/sandbox/crafting revision"

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(sketch for discussion purposes)
 
(→‎Crafting Revision: tables and formatting and updates)
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==Crafting Revision==
 
==Crafting Revision==
  
−
People who want to be able to craft stuff take a crafting ability like a background. The various crafting types let them make stuff. Some people need other crafting specializations to make stuff, and can thus spread the work around
+
===Crafted Items===
 +
As part of the crafting revision, we're going to look at items again. Crafted items, which are most items in the game, come in one of three levels of quality: poor, standard, and masterwork.
  
−
*Metalsmith - metal working, horseshoes, plows, etc., includes pieces used in weaponsmithing and armorsmithing
+
====Poor Quality Items====
−
*Armorsmith - armor construction, using pieces made by tanners, metalsmiths, weavers
+
Poor quality items have some defect or limitation, but they are often better than nothing. Boats made from poor planks may leak and need to be bailed regularly, poor quality weapons may have a -1 to hit or damage due to balance, and poor quality art is just ugly. Poor quality items sell at a discount.
−
*Weaponsmith - weapon construction, using pieces made by woodwrights, metalsmiths, and assorted minor bits
 
−
*Bowyer - special category, constructs bows and arrows from start to finish
 
−
*Tanner - skins and prepares animal hides for other uses, including pieces for
 
−
*Carpenter - builds homes, boats, wagons, etc. using pieces made by woodwrights and metalsmiths
 
−
*Woodwright - takes trees and turns them into planks or other bits, including pieces used in carpentry
 
−
*Tailor - makes clothes
 
−
*Weaver - makes cloth
 
−
*Sculpter - makes pottery and sculptures
 
−
*Glassblower - makes glass using sand and stuff
 
−
*Alchemist - makes alchemical items in containers provided by glassblowers and metalsmiths
 
−
*Trapsmithing - somewhat of a misnomer as it also includes locks and clocks and other finicky devices using pieces supplied by metalsmiths, carpenters, tanners, clothwrights, alchemists, glassblowers, and others
 
−
*Stonewright - makes stone bits, including statures
 
−
*(whatever else should be added)
 
  
−
Stuff that people make comes in 3 qualities: poor, standard, and masterwork. Most stuff is standard quality. Poor quality stuff has some defect, limitation, or just looks bad, but will generally serve in a pinch with a caveat (boats made from poor planks leak and need to be bailed regularly, weapons have a -1 to hit or damage due to balance, etc.).
+
====Standard Quality Items====
 +
Standard quality objects function with neither benefit nor drawback. Items listed for sale in the PHB are assumed to be of standard quality, though unscrupulous merchants may try to shine up a poor quality item and sell it at the listed, standard quality item price.  
  
−
People who take one or more of these specializations have a level with it: apprentice, partner, and master. Apprentices make poor quality stuff, partners make standard quality stuff and can make poor stuff more quickly, and masters can make masterwork stuff and the other quality stuff more quickly. Partners and masters can also take lower quality stuff from those under their supervision and improve it, making stuff more quickly if they have people working under them. Partners and masters can also add decorative engravings, filigree, or whatever to their work, while apprentices can not.
+
====Masterwork Quality Items====
 +
Masterwork items are those that offer a benefit, often a numerical one, and sell for a premium.
  
 +
===Crafting Disciplines===
 +
The various crafting disciplines are listed below. There is some intentional overlap between types. Characters who wish to be able to craft objects simply start with the crafting discipline or spend some down time between adventures acquiring it. There is no limit on the number of crafting disciplines a character can have, but most people only have the time and inclination to learn one.
 +
 +
{| class="zebra d20" style="text-align:left" width="100%"
 +
|+ Crafting Disciplines
 +
! Discipline || Objects they make || Objects they need || Key Ability
 +
|-
 +
| Metalsmith || metal working, horseshoes, plows, etc., includes pieces used in weaponsmithing and armorsmithing || raw ore || Strength
 +
|-
 +
| Armorsmith || armor construction, using pieces made by tanners, metalsmiths, weavers || forged plates, metal wire or links, cured leather, prepared hides, cloth || Constitution
 +
|-
 +
| Weaponsmith || weapon construction, using pieces made by woodwrights, metalsmiths, and assorted minor bits || alloy bars, cured leather, cloth, prepared wood || Constitution
 +
|-
 +
| Bowyer || constructs bows and arrows from start to finish || raw wood || Wisdom
 +
|-
 +
| Tanner || skins and prepares animal hides for other uses, including pieces for  || animal hides || Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
| Bonewright || uncommon discipline. glue, gelatin, bone gear || raw or prepared bones ||
 +
|-
 +
| Carpenter || builds homes, boats, wagons, etc. using pieces made by woodwrights and metalsmiths || prepared wood, nails / rivets, metal bars || Constitution
 +
|-
 +
| Woodwright || takes trees and turns them into planks or other bits, including pieces used in carpentry || raw wood || Strength
 +
|-
 +
| Tailor || makes clothes || cloth, thread, dyes || Intelligence
 +
|-
 +
| Weaver || makes cloth || raw wool, raw silk, raw cotton || Wisdom
 +
|-
 +
| Sculpter || makes pottery and sculptures || raw clay || Charisma
 +
|-
 +
| Glassblower || makes glass using sand and stuff || sand || Intelligence
 +
|-
 +
| Alchemist || makes alchemical items in containers provided by glassblowers and metalsmiths || miscellaneous || Intelligence
 +
|-
 +
| Trapsmithing || somewhat of a misnomer as it also includes locks and clocks and other finicky devices using pieces supplied by metalsmiths, carpenters, tanners, clothwrights, alchemists, glassblowers, and others || miscellaneous || Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
| Stonewright || makes stone bits, including statures || raw stone, raw marble || Wisdom
 +
|-
 +
| Jeweler || cuts gemstones, makes jewelery || raw gemstones, prepared gemstones, metal rings or wire || Dexterity
 +
|-
 +
| Painter || makes paints, murals, portraits || canvas, dyes, oil || Charisma
 +
|-
 +
| Bookbinder || makes books, paper, etc. || wood pulp, rice pulp, papyrus, prepared leather || Intelligence
 +
|-
 +
| Cook || makes foods || miscellaneous || Wisdom
 +
|}
 +
 +
Everyone with a crafting discipline has a skill level within it. Their skill level determines how quickly they can make objects, the best quality of the objects they can make, and the level of detail and decoration they can add to their work. When a character acquires a crafting discipline, they are enter as apprentices. The levels are apprentice, partner, and master.
 +
 +
====Apprentice Level====
 +
Apprentices make poor quality stuff and can attempt to make standard quality objects.
 +
 +
====Partner Level====
 +
Partners make standard quality stuff, can attempt to make masterwork objects, and can rush out poor quality objects. Partners can also take lower quality stuff from those working under their supervision and improve it. If an apprentice begins making a sword, for example, a partner can take it from them as a poor item and turn it into a standard item in a short period of time. This allows a partner to craft more items of quality in the same period of time if they have one or more apprentices available to help them.
 +
 +
====Master Level====
 +
Masters can make masterwork stuff, and can rush out poor and standard quality items. Masters can also attempt to add decorative engravings, filigree, or whatever to their masterwork items, while apprentices and partners can not. Masters, like partners, may take items crafted by those working under their supervision and improve their quality. This provides a master with a similar output increase.
 +
 +
====Advancing Crafting Level====
 +
You may increase your crafting level with a discipline at no cost other than the time spent making items. Practice makes perfect after all.
 +
 +
===The Crafting Process===
 
Each specialization has a craft time associated with it (not made up yet). This is the time it takes to make an item one size category smaller than the crafter is. Medium crafters thus make small items in the same amount of time that small crafters make tiny items. This base time is modified by the nature of materials worked with. Hard / firm / stiff materials increase the time, soft / pliant materials reduce the time, and fragile / brittle materials increase the time (complexity may also add in here, but I'm not sure it's worth including yet). These modifiers modify the base time. Detail work, like engravings or filigree or lace or whatever, is added on top of the base time for the item.
 
Each specialization has a craft time associated with it (not made up yet). This is the time it takes to make an item one size category smaller than the crafter is. Medium crafters thus make small items in the same amount of time that small crafters make tiny items. This base time is modified by the nature of materials worked with. Hard / firm / stiff materials increase the time, soft / pliant materials reduce the time, and fragile / brittle materials increase the time (complexity may also add in here, but I'm not sure it's worth including yet). These modifiers modify the base time. Detail work, like engravings or filigree or lace or whatever, is added on top of the base time for the item.
  
 
Items may also have a "rest time" associated with them. You spend the craft time and leave it alone during the rest time and it's done afterwards.
 
Items may also have a "rest time" associated with them. You spend the craft time and leave it alone during the rest time and it's done afterwards.
 +
 +
{| class="zebra d20"
 +
|+ Crafting Level Time Multipliers
 +
! Level || Poor Quality || Standard Quality || Masterwork || Decorative Masterwork
 +
|-
 +
| class="left" | Apprentice || x1 || x1.5<sup>1</sup> || &mdash; || &mdash;
 +
|-
 +
| class="left" | Partner || x3/4 || x1 || x1.5<sup>1</sup> || &mdash;
 +
|-
 +
| class="left" | Master || x1/2 || x3/4 || x1 || x1.5<sup>1</sup>
 +
|-
 +
| class="foot" colspan="5" |
 +
#Requires an attribute check against DC 15 to be successful.
 +
|}
  
 
==Cost revision==
 
==Cost revision==
 
Items have a raw material cost depending on their weight and materials, which I think it listed somewhere but I don't feel like looking up. You can purchase partially worked materials (lumber planks from a woodwright for barrels or boats, leather from a tanner for backpacks or armor, etc.) can be purchased for 2x the raw cost. Probably. These numbers may need to be adjusted so that we don't fall into weird cost problems. In general, making armor and weapons should have a huge profit margin and the non-combat ones less so, since the non-combat ones will have a higher useage rate within a community.
 
Items have a raw material cost depending on their weight and materials, which I think it listed somewhere but I don't feel like looking up. You can purchase partially worked materials (lumber planks from a woodwright for barrels or boats, leather from a tanner for backpacks or armor, etc.) can be purchased for 2x the raw cost. Probably. These numbers may need to be adjusted so that we don't fall into weird cost problems. In general, making armor and weapons should have a huge profit margin and the non-combat ones less so, since the non-combat ones will have a higher useage rate within a community.

Revision as of 05:27, 25 May 2011

Note - this is extremely rough at this stage. This is only for mundane items. This is not a revision to the magic item crafting as yet, since that is a whole other mess. I see several possible extensions into that area, but the basic approach here is far enough from the norm that I'm not worried them yet.

Starting Assumptions

Crafting mundane gear is a background thing that does not net you more power when you do it. Crafting is not relevant during an actual adventure, though it may be relevant in NPC interactions the same way other background characteristics are.

Crafting mundane gear is not something that should depend on level, as it is not something that can possibly remain relevant with level. Crafting magic gear could be relevant, but should depend ONLY on level (and no other benchmarks) so that people don't have the option of falling behind in a gear dependent game. Investing things that could go to keeping you relevant in your adventuring party is right out then (mostly, feats remain a possibility that I dislike for other reasons), since you should either invest nothing at all or everything you possibly can. The former makes it not valuable as a skill and thus a poor inclusion, the later makes it better suited for a character ability in the same way that casters just make stuff limited by their current level (and feat choices, but meh).

As crafting is a downtime thing and not an adventure, it is not something that people should roll for. Rolls might need to be made to graduate from apprentice to partner to master (or whatever), or other times that might involve making something above your current skill level, but normal crafting should just happen over time. Rolls for these other things could be their own mini-game, but as they are unlikely to involve the rest of the party I don't see that as a particularly good option. One roll, attribute bonus only, against a pre-fixed and never modified DC seems best, but I'd honestly be happy to just let people craft what they want in their ability level and train up when plot appropriate at no cost.

Crafting Revision

Crafted Items

As part of the crafting revision, we're going to look at items again. Crafted items, which are most items in the game, come in one of three levels of quality: poor, standard, and masterwork.

Poor Quality Items

Poor quality items have some defect or limitation, but they are often better than nothing. Boats made from poor planks may leak and need to be bailed regularly, poor quality weapons may have a -1 to hit or damage due to balance, and poor quality art is just ugly. Poor quality items sell at a discount.

Standard Quality Items

Standard quality objects function with neither benefit nor drawback. Items listed for sale in the PHB are assumed to be of standard quality, though unscrupulous merchants may try to shine up a poor quality item and sell it at the listed, standard quality item price.

Masterwork Quality Items

Masterwork items are those that offer a benefit, often a numerical one, and sell for a premium.

Crafting Disciplines

The various crafting disciplines are listed below. There is some intentional overlap between types. Characters who wish to be able to craft objects simply start with the crafting discipline or spend some down time between adventures acquiring it. There is no limit on the number of crafting disciplines a character can have, but most people only have the time and inclination to learn one.

Crafting Disciplines
Discipline Objects they make Objects they need Key Ability
Metalsmith metal working, horseshoes, plows, etc., includes pieces used in weaponsmithing and armorsmithing raw ore Strength
Armorsmith armor construction, using pieces made by tanners, metalsmiths, weavers forged plates, metal wire or links, cured leather, prepared hides, cloth Constitution
Weaponsmith weapon construction, using pieces made by woodwrights, metalsmiths, and assorted minor bits alloy bars, cured leather, cloth, prepared wood Constitution
Bowyer constructs bows and arrows from start to finish raw wood Wisdom
Tanner skins and prepares animal hides for other uses, including pieces for animal hides Dexterity
Bonewright uncommon discipline. glue, gelatin, bone gear raw or prepared bones
Carpenter builds homes, boats, wagons, etc. using pieces made by woodwrights and metalsmiths prepared wood, nails / rivets, metal bars Constitution
Woodwright takes trees and turns them into planks or other bits, including pieces used in carpentry raw wood Strength
Tailor makes clothes cloth, thread, dyes Intelligence
Weaver makes cloth raw wool, raw silk, raw cotton Wisdom
Sculpter makes pottery and sculptures raw clay Charisma
Glassblower makes glass using sand and stuff sand Intelligence
Alchemist makes alchemical items in containers provided by glassblowers and metalsmiths miscellaneous Intelligence
Trapsmithing somewhat of a misnomer as it also includes locks and clocks and other finicky devices using pieces supplied by metalsmiths, carpenters, tanners, clothwrights, alchemists, glassblowers, and others miscellaneous Dexterity
Stonewright makes stone bits, including statures raw stone, raw marble Wisdom
Jeweler cuts gemstones, makes jewelery raw gemstones, prepared gemstones, metal rings or wire Dexterity
Painter makes paints, murals, portraits canvas, dyes, oil Charisma
Bookbinder makes books, paper, etc. wood pulp, rice pulp, papyrus, prepared leather Intelligence
Cook makes foods miscellaneous Wisdom

Everyone with a crafting discipline has a skill level within it. Their skill level determines how quickly they can make objects, the best quality of the objects they can make, and the level of detail and decoration they can add to their work. When a character acquires a crafting discipline, they are enter as apprentices. The levels are apprentice, partner, and master.

Apprentice Level

Apprentices make poor quality stuff and can attempt to make standard quality objects.

Partner Level

Partners make standard quality stuff, can attempt to make masterwork objects, and can rush out poor quality objects. Partners can also take lower quality stuff from those working under their supervision and improve it. If an apprentice begins making a sword, for example, a partner can take it from them as a poor item and turn it into a standard item in a short period of time. This allows a partner to craft more items of quality in the same period of time if they have one or more apprentices available to help them.

Master Level

Masters can make masterwork stuff, and can rush out poor and standard quality items. Masters can also attempt to add decorative engravings, filigree, or whatever to their masterwork items, while apprentices and partners can not. Masters, like partners, may take items crafted by those working under their supervision and improve their quality. This provides a master with a similar output increase.

Advancing Crafting Level

You may increase your crafting level with a discipline at no cost other than the time spent making items. Practice makes perfect after all.

The Crafting Process

Each specialization has a craft time associated with it (not made up yet). This is the time it takes to make an item one size category smaller than the crafter is. Medium crafters thus make small items in the same amount of time that small crafters make tiny items. This base time is modified by the nature of materials worked with. Hard / firm / stiff materials increase the time, soft / pliant materials reduce the time, and fragile / brittle materials increase the time (complexity may also add in here, but I'm not sure it's worth including yet). These modifiers modify the base time. Detail work, like engravings or filigree or lace or whatever, is added on top of the base time for the item.

Items may also have a "rest time" associated with them. You spend the craft time and leave it alone during the rest time and it's done afterwards.

Crafting Level Time Multipliers
Level Poor Quality Standard Quality Masterwork Decorative Masterwork
Apprentice x1 x1.51 — —
Partner x3/4 x1 x1.51 —
Master x1/2 x3/4 x1 x1.51
  1. Requires an attribute check against DC 15 to be successful.

Cost revision

Items have a raw material cost depending on their weight and materials, which I think it listed somewhere but I don't feel like looking up. You can purchase partially worked materials (lumber planks from a woodwright for barrels or boats, leather from a tanner for backpacks or armor, etc.) can be purchased for 2x the raw cost. Probably. These numbers may need to be adjusted so that we don't fall into weird cost problems. In general, making armor and weapons should have a huge profit margin and the non-combat ones less so, since the non-combat ones will have a higher useage rate within a community.

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