Talk:Abstruse Cardshark (3.5e Class)

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RatedOppose.png DanielDraco opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
I'm all for alternate spellcasting systems, but this one seems very lacking. The rules, firstly, are a little lightweight and lack some small bits of rigor that you might want to see. But the bigger problem is that the suits are, like domains, defined by a theme rather than a use, so together with the randomization it means that the character's abilities are completely arbitrary, showing barely any reflection on what the player wants to be able to do. A crusader, at least, can pick and choose individual maneuvers that do exactly what they want.


k so, 2 things, 1, do you choose your deck's composition, 2 whats the maximum or minimum, or is it just 52 cards?

First, choose 1 to 4 suits from the list of suits. Then, for each suit you have chosen, you put in the Ace, followed by cards of that suit, in order, until you have put in the highest card you are allowed to put in (the one which is at the maximum card denomination) or you decide to stop. When you're done, you will not have more than one of each card. --Foxwarrior 17:47, July 1, 2010 (UTC)

Caster Level and DC[edit]

The caster level of the "spells" is equal to the character level? You should probably specify this (or you have and I missed it, sorry if it's the case...).

Other thing: I've noticed that the DC of the cards scale with the character HD, but that's supernatural default. Spell-like abilities should only scale with the spell level and the casting attribute, or some low spell level effects would be as hard to resist as a high level spell, shifting the balance. There aren't many disables (so, it can't actually be called overpowered) but some high DC enchants/dominates and scrying, not to mention high DC uncapped damage can make a difference. --ElfsMaster 01:39, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

The standard rule for caster level is that it is equal to your class level "A spell’s power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to your class level in the class you’re using to cast the spell.". If you look around, you'll find that it usually isn't stated anywhere on the class's page unless it doesn't follow that general rule.
Save DC's scale with Hit Dice instead of spell level for two reasons, the less important being that the Abstruse Cardshark's spell levels aren't always numbers (DC 10 + King + Charisma modifier?), and the more important being that it's counterproductive. It seems to me that the main reason for having the DC's scale with spell level is so that casters with 75 spell slots (which you can get, at high levels with a high ability modifier) don't actually have 75 valid options; only about 15 of them have high enough DC's to be worth casting most of the time. With the Abstruse Cardshark, hand size serves that purpose, and having save DC's that are too low to be usable would just make it so they could end up with hands entirely filled with useless cards. --Foxwarrior 03:15, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
I see. I mentioned the caster level because they're not really spells, they're spell like effects, and those usually have the caster level specified, or else some might argue that the caster level equals the HD, as default. I'm still not 100% sure about DC, but you've convinced me to a certain point. I'll be suggesting this class for my players, for some playtest. However, I'll be capping most effects, probably at level 20 (just so it doesn't completely outshines the epic spells and so...). The concept is amazing and really fluffy and the play style seems really fun, so I hope it works alright. I'll be back (after some testing and feedback from my players). --ElfsMaster 21:18, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
You are correct. I did say on the page that they were spell-like abilities, and so the caster level would actually equal the HD. --Foxwarrior 05:09, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Extra Suits[edit]

Could we perhaps get a feat that allowed us to get more than 4 suits to choose from? I can understand if you don't want to but it is difficult to decide to pick only four, also could we possibly suggest more suits to you?.--Stryker 13:21, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes. --Foxwarrior 19:43, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
So I had an idea for another suit, Wall, a defensive suit that can create walls (duh!) and destroy the defenses of others.--Stryker 09:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
I am not truly inspired by this description. Why don't you make it and I'll balance it for you? --Foxwarrior 04:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Ideas for this Class[edit]

Ok I really, really like this class though it seems like it should be played as a con-man magician and as such would have thought more class skills could be used to represent that, like maybe Spot, Listen, Hide and Move Silently and possibly Tumble. Also although I have no general mechanical idea behind it an ability or feat called Pick a Card, Any Card could be interesting, but it is just a random thought I had. Now the one part that confuses me is how I draw the cards at the start of the day, do I draw them in real life? or do I just draw the cards I want? would be great if you could clear that up for me. Either way this class is awesome and i'm playing it soon so just thought i'd give some input.--Stryker 09:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Of course you don't get to choose which cards you draw; that would be cheating. Obviously, the most straightforward way of playing an Abstruse Cardshark is to bring a deck in real life, but if you work out the probabilities, any other form of randomization could theoretically be used instead. --Foxwarrior 21:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah k i had worked out a randomization but I have made the deck if cards too, but now I need two more suits, hmmm.--Stryker 03:17, 20 November 2010 (UTC)