Talk:Bio-Energy (3.5e Creature Ability)

Bio-Energy Drain

Just wondering, but how many points of it come back per rest period? Is it like ability damage in on how fast it comes back, or maybe one per day, or all at once? Just figured I'd ask because the page is vague on this, or rather lacks any info on when it comes back. YX33A 23:13, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like you would regain 1 drained point per hour of rest. I'll bring it up with Sulacu to have her clarify the text. --Ganteka Future 23:28, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

I meant the points of drain to come back at a rate of 1 point per hour of rest. I'll clarify it a little in my next edit. --Sulacu 19:52, July 9, 2010 (UTC)

How does bio-energy drain relate to temporary bio-energy charges, as granted by effects such as the enhance seed? Like any sort of temporary points, temporary charges get used up first and don't come back once they're gone, so without some sort of special regulation, there's absolutely no disadvantage to use bio-energy draining abilities instead of abilities that merely use up points until your temporary points are gone. My best idea for fixing this is that every point of bio-energy drain uses two (or more) temporary bio-energy charges instead of one, and if all the temporary charges are spent and there's still more charges to pay for the ability, the remainder gets drained as normal. (Of course, this begs the question of how you pay a fraction of a charge... maybe convert that to an ordinary usage of a charge instead of bio-energy drain?) --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:32, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure enhance is the only way to get temporary bio-energy charges, which would be why it hasn't been explored yet. I'd probably emphasize the "your bio-energy pool is treated as having 1 charge less for every charge drained" angle, and make it ignore temporary charges entirely.

If you didn't want to do that, well, charges regenerate at a rate of 1 per minute, and drain regenerates 60 times slower, so one point of drain should use up 60 temporary charges in order to avoid excessive interactions with abilities that derive some balance from the longer downtime drain gives. --Foxwarrior (talk) 03:16, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

*grabs calculator and does some quick math* Base Spellcraft DC of 17, +3 for every extra charge after the base 1... 17 + (3 × 59) = 194 DC to grant 60 temporary charges, assuming that you do nothing else with the seed. That's only 6 lower than Veles serpent, which I reckon deserves its shockingly high DC of 200 after what I've recently done with it. (To wit - just by making the summoned creature able to shift between non-segmented and segmented, I've managed to give it a devastating viselike no-fail grapple which it uses by surrounding foes and coiling up right on top of them, and it's also gained a specialized trample attack that truly has to be read to be believed. To summarize: Water-earth-elemental-enormous-snake-steamroller. If that's not crazy awesome (and scary), I'm not sure what is.) To grant 120 temporary charges, the DC of the epic spell becomes 374; to grant 180, it becomes 554... it can only get zanier from there, to the point where you'd need a huge ritual to pull it off. And that's before you fiddle with matters like duration, range, and targeting... Ouch. 60 temporary charges per drain point sounds like a bit much, and think of what you could do with those charges if you're using them normally... I'm shaken now. --Luigifan18 (talk) 05:54, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Oh hey, I just popped in to tell you guys that I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. I'm pretty sure I didn't design the Xenotheric subtype or this ability with the purpose of facilitating the use of spells, let alone epic ones. There's a few feats that may be able to bridge that gap, like Bio-Energy Suffusion, but it still doesn't work close to the way you're describing.

Okay, here's the lowdown; that spell seed you linked above does not increase a creature's bio-energy capacity. Not. The amount of charges a creature possesses depends on its Constitution score, and only its Constitution score, and - in some cases - feats like Increased Biocapacity. Bio-energy pool does not depend on level. Bio-energy does not have a caster level of any kind. Bio-energy expends a number of charges as written in the ability's description, and (usually) has associated save DCs like a breath weapon, based on a creature's hit dice and Constitution bonus. And that's basically it. --Sulacu (talk) 15:08, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Of course enhance doesn't increase a creature's bio-energy capacity! It grants temporary bio-energy charges. They work like temporary hit points or temporary power points - once they're used, they're gone and can't be recovered. They also don't stack with other temporary bio-energy charges, and when duration of the effect that granted them expires, they go away whether they've been used or not. The effect that granted the temporary bio-energy charges automatically expires when the last of those charges has been used. The enhancement is in no way a permanent boost to a creature's bio-energy capacity, just a supplement. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:40, 20 October 2012 (UTC)