Talk:Bloodbond Dvati (5e Subrace)

Balance

While hit points rolled are split between the two, Constitution modifier to HP is not, meaning that this character has considerably more HP when taking into account the resistance when compared to other characters.

Furthermore, Gift of Agony is going to outdamage almost every other ability in the game if used correctly. --Ghostwheel (talk) 07:51, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

Overall, they have all the hit points of a normal character of their class, with the exception that they're essentially doubling their con mod. In the case of max HP - Spec full Con, level 20 Barbarian, 20d12 HP base (Average 145) - A normal character would get 100 additional hit points from Con 20, and a Dvati would get 200. The tradeoff is that they occupy two spaces, and thus are vulnerable to AoE effects that catch both of them in the radius (Effectively taking double damage), and when they move, both twins provoke AoOs. Rather than one barbarian with 245 health, you're attacking two barbarians with 173 health each (Half of 345, rounded up).

Dividing the damage between the twins effectively means that you're attacking the full pool of health, rather than just one twin's half; So yes, the default subrace is incredibly tanky, and it covers the main weakness of the race, which is the fact that if you separate the twins, they're individually weaker, and killing one will kill the other. Which is scary, considering that when one twin is charmed, possessed or etc., both twins are affected, giving the mind-controlling bad guy one hell of a tool to use against the party. Likewise, not only do both twins take full damage from Psychic attacks (As listed on the race page), this subrace also has vulnerability to it, meaning that both twins are taking 150% damage from the attack. Halving it between them is useless, as they're both taking it and halving it won't change the final numbers. What this means is now a Psychic attack that deals 30 damage to one target with 245 health, is now dealing 90 damage to a target with 345 health.

I see what you're saying - They are incredibly tanky, and can leave themselves at low HP intentionally to nuke a target berserker-style. This... Is pretty intentional, as that's a risky strategy anyone with this power would logically come to. The problem here is that each twin getting only half the normal hit points results in them being very squishy - Level one Dvati wizard with 4 hit points each defeats the purpose of bumping Wiz HD from a d4 to a d6, honestly. If the base race was so squishy, they'd be very unfun to play.

However, I have implemented another mechanic specifically to the Bloodbonded Dvati - Rather than adding their Con mod separately, they use the highest Con mod between them, and split the health in half - Effectively meaning they have the same amount of health as normal.

Using the same barbarian from earlier, as a human, they would have 245 hit points, as a different Dvati subrace, they would have 173 HP each, and as a Bloodbonded Dvati, they would have 123 hit points each, which when splitting damage adds up to 246 (Sheerly because rounding up is a thing). This results in the subraces being more even in tankiness, so that the default subrace plays more like a normal character who can be in two places at once.--Zhenra-Khal (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2019 (UTC)

I would honestly be fine with it, except that it oversteps the amount of power that 5e grants the vast majority of its races. This simply becomes the most optimal choice for many characters, potentially making other races redundant (which is a bad thing), especially if the second twin stays at home while the first one goes out adventuring (or stays far enough away that they're not going to get fireballed or whatever, which can be 10' around the nearest corner in a dungeon).

Psychic is pretty rare as far as damage types go, if you want to make it a greater threat, I would choose fire, poison, or necrotic damage--those come up often enough to be actually scary.

Re: highest con modifier... wait, now I'm confused; don't they have the same stats? Or do they have different stats? I was under the impression that they were exactly identical...

Also, looking at Empathic Healing again, does the Dvati need to remain constantly in contact with the person to heal them? If not, it's really broken, comparable to Regeneration, since it's so hard to kill people who regain HP each round in 5e. --Ghostwheel (talk) 23:49, 20 December 2019 (UTC)

Dvati do, indeed, have the same stats - All permanent increases affect both twins. However, while their base stats are the same, their physical stats are separate - Thus a Shadow's touch would only drain the Strength of the twin touched, and a physical-stat-boosting item would only benefit the twin wearing them. Thus, one twin could technically have a higher Con stat than the other if using a Con-boosting item, such as an Ioun Stone of Fortitude; Hence why I made that distinction, as I knew in the case of differing scores, players would be confused.--Zhenra-Khal (talk) 19:26, 22 December 2019 (UTC)