Talk:Expanded Size Categories (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

	Mecheye favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Having something beyond Colossal is pretty useful especially since things can get a LOT bigger than that. Specifically when designing vehicles for later-era games such as Battleships, ending at Colossal simply doesn't cut it

Cool

No rating this time. Instead, I just want to say that this is really cool and I plan to be using this in some of my future homebrew, supposing it can be finished. On that same note, I was wondering if I could lend aid in developing this rule. I was also wondering why you used such weird formatting for the carrying capacities. Why does it have to be 20^9? Can't it just be 5.12x10^11? -Hammerhead

Why thank you. This actually needs finishing one day (I want to find out how to collapse the tables, otherwise this will be very large indeed), but the important ones are done. This is partly cribbed from the Immortal's Handbook, though I believe our scaling differs too.

As far as the 20^9, if memory serves I remember picking up relative sizes of things from somewhere else, perhaps Wikipedia. Sadly math was my dump stat so I didn't bother fixing it lest I mess it up. Feel free to help! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 07:11, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

You should just go ahead and let it be a big page, if you can't make it auto-collapse. Either that, or find a person who actually knows how to collapse things and get the information. Though, if you want, I could take your numbers and make them prettier. To help me help you, could you give me a comprehensive list of what each size you've already created is supposed to correspond to. Also, instead of having a series of individual tables, why not simply have it all be one table? Were you wanting to go with any particular formula for the tables? How would you feel about comments and footnotes that give the reader an idea of what's supposed to be going on? Should there be additional rules when a creature is large enough that a planet is an Ioun stone to them? (Planetary Ioun magic item: It's a magic satellite.) Just vomit all your thoughts out. -Hammerhead

Eiji - add "mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" to the class declarations at the start of the table. Ex: {| class="zebra d20" -> {| class="zebra d20 mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" - Tarkisflux ^Talk 07:27, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Joy! I shall deal with this later/tomorrow then, thank you! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:54, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

Yocto - Neutrino

Zepto - Proton

Atto - Atom

Femto - Smoke Particle

Pico - Red Blood Cell

Nano - Dust Particle

Micro - Insect

Standard - Human

Macro - Mountain

Mega - Planet

Giga - Star

Tera - Solar System

Peta - Nebula

Exa - Spiral Arm of a Galaxy

Zetta - Galaxy

Yotta - Supercluster

I'm pretty sure this is accurate. The Nebula/Spiral Arm of Galaxy/Galaxy bit should probably be chopped up a bit into "Large Nebula"/"Spiral Arm of Milky Way Galaxy"/"Large Galaxy". It's difficult to get accurate parallels when we're talking about something that fills a noticeable portion of the visible universe. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT) Time to buckle up and stop being lazy, time to get to work. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:18, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't believe you succeeded at buckling down. :P My offer to adopt still stands, by the way. -Hammerhead

You would be correct. I must stand aside, you may go ahead, as I don't have time in the future. Though, if you need any help feel free to ask. Especially with making the subpages. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:52, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey! Glad to see you've gotten this underway. Actually spent a fair portion of the last few days developing some rules for this. Now I'm wondering if you still plan to pass it over to me or if you wanna do it yourself. If the latter, would you like me to post what I've got? (You're probably just adding the subpages like you suggested, but I don't wanna move ahead if it's not clear.) -Hammerhead

No problems here. It's actually nothing unusual, you may be able to determine the pattern here. Each size doubles the last, and so the numbers and categories get pretty crazy. Though I've made up to Yotta, I imagine due to the exponential rate of growth we'll probably end early when we hit "size of Observable Universe". It goes the other way in reverse, growing exponentially smaller and smaller too until "Planck Scale".

The annoying part is just doing the math and crunching all those huge numbers. That said, a pattern is established once you hit the Macro scale, so it's just going on from there. Get it? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 00:53, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm pretty good at crunching numbers, and right now, I'm assigning an object to each size category that would be that size category, for example:

Macrofine - Redwood Tree

Macrodiminutive - Eiffel Tower

Macrotiny - Empire State Building

Macrosmall - Small Mountain

Macromedium - Mount Vesuvius

Macrolarge - The Matterhorn

Macrohuge - Mount Everest

Macrogargantuan - Island of Aruba

Macrocolossal - Singapore

Macrotitanic - French Polynesia

I'm having trouble at the PETA stage. If I can find objects up to Petalarge, I'll be fine, after that, it's clear sailing, but finding things that are 2294 au across is difficult. You get to the size of the heliosphere, and then there's a huge gap before you get to the size of the Stingray Nebula. I'm still looking, and I've even asked an astrophysics Ph. D. at the local university to try and help me find things. But I went ahead and calculated the largest size in this scale: Yottatitanic, because of your concern, and it comes out at a diameter of 1,678 Mpc, and the observable universe is 8,000 Mpc, so you could actually fit about 100 Yottatitanics into the observable universe and they would still have room to wiggle and move past one another. You have questions about biology and gravitational effects, but, hey, fantasy world.

I'm planning to incorporate a few optional rules into this page as well, called "size disparity" and "relative size". Don't have them well defined at the moment, but they'll be fun to play around with. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT) Sounds like you have a plan. Thank you in advance for crunching numbers for me. I'm surprised, I figured the exponential scaling would hit singularity and we'd be at the universe in no time. Man, the universe really is huge.

I await to hear about your optional rules. Cool. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:34, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

I appreciate that you're taking the trouble to ask an astrophysicist. I want to see this chart list for science reasons as much as anything else now, which warms my poor heart. Thanks Hammerhead. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, I'll be posting the whole thing when it's done. In the meantime, check out my piecemeal construction of the first half of the PETA scale. If someone can check these numbers, make sure I got them correct, it would be much appreciated.

Teratitanic - Heliosphere (143 au to 286 au)

Petafine - ProPlyD d053-717 (286 au to 573 au)

Petadiminutive - ProPlyD L1157 (573 au to 1147 au)

Petatiny - ProPlyD Beta Pictoris (1147 au to 2294 au)

Petasmall - L1551-IRS5 Circumstellar Envelope (2294 au to 4588 au)

Petamedium - Herbig-Haro Object 34 (4588 au to 9176 au)

Petalarge - Stingray Nebula (9176 au to 18352 au)

I gave myself a splitting headache wading through a lot of obscure papers today, so I'm not sure this is 100% accurate, but I'm fairly certain that not many people will be able to tell me that it's not accurate. -Hammerhead

(RESET INDENT (because I am not indenting this entire list, damnit!)) Here it is, as promised, the full list of size categories accord to this scale. As you can see, most of the smaller categories are left with simple ranges. This is because there are no known objects in our universe that exist in those size categories, and I know this as a fact, because we looked for those things pretty hard. Of course, if someone else can find something of appropriate size, I'll gladly update the list. Also, the smallest size of a Yoctofine is still 3,827,000,000,000 times larger than the Planck Length. (3.8 quadrillion!)

Yoctofine - 62-125 yoctometers

Yoctodiminutive - 125-250 yoctometers

Yoctotiny - 250-500 yoctometers

Yoctosmall - 500-1000 yoctometers

Yoctomedium - 1-2 zeptometers

Yoctolarge - 2-4 zeptometers

Yoctohuge - 20 GeV Neutrino

Yoctogargantuan - 250 GeV Neutrino

Yoctocolossal - 16-31 zeptometers

Yoctotitanic - 31-62 zeptometers

Zeptofine - 62-125 zeptometers

Zeptodiminutive - 125-250 zeptometers

Zeptotiny - 250-500 zeptometers

Zeptosmall - 500-1000 zeptometers

Zeptomedium - 1-2 attometers

Zeptolarge - 2-4 attometers

Zeptohuge - 4-8 attometers

Zeptogargantuan - 8-16 attometers

Zeptocolossal - 16-31 attometers

Zeptotitanic - 31-62 attometers

Attofine - 62-125 attometers

Attodiminutive - 125-250 attometers

Attotiny - 250-500 attometers

Attosmall - 500-1000 attometers

Attomedium - Proton

Attolarge - Lithium Nucleus

Attohuge - Chlorine Nucleus

Attogargantuan - Uranium Nucleus

Attocolossal - 16-31 femtometers

Attotitanic - 31-62 femtometers

Femtofine - 62-125 femtometers

Femtodiminutive - 125-250 femtometers

Femtotiny - 250-500 femtometers

Femtosmall - 500-1000 femtometers

Femtomedium - Wavelength of Gamma Rays (300 EHz)

Femtolarge - Compton Wavelength of Electron

Femtohuge - Wavelength of Gamma Rays (75 EHz)

Femtogargantuan - Wavelength of X-rays (30 EHz)

Femtocolossal - Wavelength of X-rays (7.5 EHz)

Femtotitanic - Hydrogen Atom (Empirical)

Picofine - Oxygen Atom

Picodiminutive - Carbon Atom

Picotiny - Diamond Cell

Picosmall - Quartz Cell

Picomedium - Nucleotide Adenine

Picolarge - Phospholipid

Picohuge - Hemoglobin

Picogargantuan - Porcine Circovirus

Picocolossal - Rhinovirus

Picotitanic - Hepatitis Virus

Nanofine - Flu Virus

Nanodiminutive - Rabies Virus

Nanotiny - Wavelength of Visible Light (Violet-Green)

Nanosmall - Wavelength of Visible Light (Yellow-Red)

Nanomedium - Lead Dust Particle

Nanolarge - E. Coli

Nanohuge - X Chromosome

Nanogargantuan - Red Blood Cell

Nanocolossal - Skin Cell

Nanotitanic - Human Egg

Microfine - Dust Particle

Microdiminutive - Dust Mite

Microtiny - Tardigrade

Microsmall - Fairyfly

Micromedium - Flea

Microlarge - Mealybug

Microhuge - Whirligig Beetle

Microgargantuan - Mill Moth

Microcolossal - Garden Spider

Microtitanic - Tarantula Hawk Wasp

Fine - Hummingbird

Diminutive - Bluebird

Tiny - Cat

Small - Dog

Medium - Human

Large - Horse

Huge - Elephant

Gargantuan - Giant Squid

Colossal - Whale

Titanic - Brazil Nut Tree

Macrofine - Redwood Tree

Macrodiminutive - Eiffel Tower

Macrotiny - Empire State Building

Macrosmall - Small Mountain

Macromedium - Mount Vesuvius

Macrolarge - The Matterhorn

Macrohuge - Mount Everest

Macrogargantuan - Island of Aruba

Macrocolossal - Singapore

Macrotitanic - French Polynesia

Megafine - Isreal

Megadiminutive - Panama

Megatiny - Italy

Megasmall - Egypt

Megamedium - India

Megalarge - Canada

Megahuge - Indian Ocean

Megagargantuan - Earth

Megacolossal - Kepler-22b

Megatitanic - Uranus

Gigafine - Jupiter

Gigadiminutive - Teide 1

Gigatiny - Lalande 21185

Gigasmall - Sun

Gigamedium - Sirius

Gigalarge - Beta Canis Minoris

Gigahuge - RR Lyrae

Gigagargantuan - Pollux

Gigacolossal - Arcturus

Gigatitanic - Aldebaran

Terafine - Rigel A

Teradiminuitive - Deneb

Teratiny - Rho Cassiopeiae

Terasmall - Antares

Teramedium - UY Scuti

Teralarge - Jupiter's Orbit

Terahuge - Saturn's Orbit

Teragargantuan - Uranus's Orbit

Teracolossal - Kuiper Belt

Teratitanic - Heliosphere

Petafine - ProPlyD d053-717

Petadiminutive - ProPlyD L1157

Petatiny - ProPlyD Beta Pictoris

Petasmall - L1551-IRS5 Circumstellar Envelope

Petamedium - Herbig-Haro Object 34

Petalarge - Stingray Nebula

Petahuge - Eskimo Nebula

Petagargantuan - Owl Nebula

Petacolossal - Butterfly Nebula

Petatitanic - Eye of God Nebula

Exafine - Crab Nebula

Exadiminutive - Cocoon Nebula

Exatiny - Orion Nebula

Exasmall - Cave Nebula

Examedium - Rosette Nebula

Exalarge - Omega Centauri

Exahuge - Carina Nebula

Exagargantuan - Tarantula Nebula

Exacolossal - Leo T Dwarf Galaxy

Exatitanic - Hercules Dwarf Galaxy

Zettafine - Small Magellanic Cloud

Zettadiminutive - Large Magellanic Cloud

Zettatiny - Mirarch's Ghost

Zettasmall - Sombrero Galaxy

Zettamedium - Milky Way

Zettalarge - Andromeda Galaxy

Zettahuge - Cygnus A Galaxy (jets)

Zettagargantuan - Virgo A Galaxy

Zettacolossal - Hercules A Galaxy (jets)

Zettatitanic - Local Group

Yottafine - Maffei Group

Yottadiminutive - Virgo Cluster

Yottatiny - Average Void

Yottasmall - Aztec-3 Protocluster

Yottamedium - Virgo Supercluster

Yottalarge - Newfound Blob

Yottahuge - Laniakea Supercluster

Yottagargantuan - Pisces-Cetus Supercluster Complex

Yottacolossal - Horologium Supercluster

Yottatitanic - Huge LQG

Enjoy geeking out! -Hammerhead

GGRHZEJSATVCIOPBZ#^*][€+{€?~\,^=SVDYHXEGC!!!!!...

...Apparently I have to indent it for it to display correctly. -Hammerhead.

Sweet buttery Christ! -- Eiji-kun (talk) 11:58, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I think it's time to once again bring up the (not really an) issue of not being able to rate Talk pages. I don't think it would take long for this to be Community Favorite. --Undead_Knave (talk) 21:52, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Eh, I can't really get behind this. If it has stats, that generally means you can/want to kill it at some point (see why they statted up gods, but not the Lady of Pain). But most of the stuff on this scale seems more like DM fiat puzzle-monster type stuff, not something you actually kill. As such, I don't really see the point of it. I mean, you're not going to kill something the size of a microbe by sticking a sword into it or the size of a planet by blasting it with fireballs. --Ghostwheel (talk) 11:16, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

space and size

not entirely sure how space and size actually interact in dnd, with monsters 100 feet long curling up into a 30 foot square, but with things like singapore being macrocolossal, and thus having a space of a 12 mile square, while in reality singapore has an area of 279 square miles. compared to the 144 square miles of space given to it, its obvious that it doesnt fit. of course, thats less than double the space given, and size categories generally represent a doubling of size, which really begs the question of how to represent the space of creatures at the border of one size category and another. Dr.Drako (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2019 (MDT)