Talk:Grenade Adept (3.5e Alternate Class Feature)

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Ratings[edit]

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Rating
Ghostwheel opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
This rating refers to a substantially different version of the article, or concerns mentioned in it have already been addressed.
Rated at "Moderate", but some of the abilities are definitely not appropriate for Moderate-level campaigns.
RatedOppose.png Undead Knave opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
So it's an ACF that removes everything that a class got to make it worse in every way to a class you made and you're claiming they're the same balance point. Please, give me a single reason anyone would take a level of this over a level of the other class.

EDIT: It looks like I was slightly wrong. It looks like this gets a d10 hd instead of a d8. That totally justifies removing every class feature they already got, halving all the new features you deigned to give them, and dropping a good save (just to be on the safe side). </sarcasm></snark>


If it's so bad, you could suggest constructive ways it could be improved. I debated adding back in the Fighter bonus feats at 2nd, 6th, 10th and so forth; Merely giving them the option of choosing a Discovery instead of a feat at the levels divisible by 4. It's much more helpful than a bad rating and a snide comment.Zhenra-Khal (talk) 17:55, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Eh, half the things really don't fit in the Moderate level balance range. Confusion, Bestow Curse, and a few of the other strong status effects don't particularly belong in Moderate games. --Ghostwheel (talk) 17:46, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, how would you suggest I improve this ACF build, Ghostwheel? I had considered the Grenadier's Evasion, or bringing Reflex saves up, or both, in additions to what I've already mentioned; However, if I keep going that direction, it will eventually just be a Grenadier clone.Zhenra-Khal (talk) 17:55, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
First, I would bring it back up to High if you want to keep those. Then, bring back fighter feats, but put them at level 3 and every 4 levels after to fill up some dead levels. Next, keep the high BAB, make it high Reflex save, and bring the original class down to medium BAB to have this class have something more go for it. Lastly, bring up bomb damage to around 7d6 or 8d6 at level 20 so that people can make up for the lower relative damage with more attacks from Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. I think that would be a decent start. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:00, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Also, letting the main bomb crit is probably fine, and that's something that applies to the Grenadier itself, as well. --Undead_Knave (talk) 18:03, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
It's hardly a full caster, but I wanted it to at least be able to do decent damage. Since most non-casters are useless after level 5 with the exception of the ToB classes and the like, I wanted this one to be able to keep up. Zhenra-Khal (talk) 18:05, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Traditional meleers are far from useless after level 5. As long as they get a way to fly, uberchargers and mounted uberchargers will one-shot most enemies. There aren't too many others as powerful, but they're far from "useless" IMO. Plus a standard barbarian full-attacking you in the face is a hella scary prospect. --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:11, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

(RESET INDENT) So I'm just glancing at this, so I have no idea if the class is good or not, but one thing sticks out to me a lot.

Why is this an alternate class feature for the fighter? It seems to keep nothing from the fighter, and the formatting is so in depth that it may as well be its own base class.

What's up with that? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:55, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

It does keep some things from the Fighter; It's a ACF that switches a handful of Fighter abilities for some abilities from Grenadier (3.5e Class), which is at this point just an Alchemist clone, considering the amount of editing I've done since making it just to make it fit in, which wasn't reeeeally what I wanted to do. Zhenra-Khal (talk) 08:40, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
It still doesn't keep anything from the Fighter, though. The entirety of the Fighter's class features are its bonus feats, none of which this gets. --Undead_Knave (talk) 17:13, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
It still gets the fighter bonus feats, albeit at a more delayed progression, getting them at level 3 and every 4 levels afterwards. --Ghostwheel (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Actually, it gets those bonus feats and any of the Grenade Adept Tricks can be Fighter feats. So it does keep the Fighter class features, just less of them to compensate for the added versatility. If that's the reason behind your rating then, well... Zhenra-Khal (talk) 18:06, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Text trumps table. Right now it gives up all its bonus feats. Kind off a minor quibble, though. --Undead_Knave (talk) 08:27, 30 October 2016 (UTC)