Talk:Living Dead (3.5e Template)

Level Adjustment

This increases the creature's HD by 4 and LA by 4, for a total ECL boost of +8, but only gives +3 CR. Is it really 5 levels stronger in the hands of a player than in the hands of a DM? --Foxwarrior (talk) 21:13, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Probably not. I will examine the figures when the template is fully complete and then see what it should end up with. The added HD serve mainly as a hit point boost and guard against turning and other HD dependent effects. The numbers as they stand here are not final, at any rate. Though, I have always been a proponent of using HD instead of LA. In the end, the LA may be waived completely. I'm willing to listen to any suggestions, though. --Sulacu (talk) 21:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

It's not that straightforward Fox, because of the annoying improving creature rules. The 4 hit dice are only worth +1 CR on a humanoid, and +4/3 CR on a monstrous humanoid (per those annoying rules). Add on the additional +3 CR, and you get to +4 LA for a character. Which sort of works if you don't double count the HD for ECL nonsense.

I have no idea if this is worth 4 character levels or not though, haven't looked through it that closely. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 21:34, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I thought that the CR adjustment of a template was supposed to override the CR adjustment for normal advancement, Tarkisflux. Also, counting the HD for ECL is the default rule.

Sulacu: I'd be willing to believe that the Living Dead is some number of levels stronger in the hands of a PC, because the Dead minions don't count towards your character level but they presumably do count towards Encounter Level. Can a level 1 Bard Living Dead (ECL 9, HD 5, CHA 18) really control a Reaving Dead and a Restless Dead? That would certainly be strong enough, actually. At Bard 12 (ECL 20, HD 16, CHA 32), that's only 4 Reaving Dead, which isn't anything to remark on and certainly isn't enough to make the character worth its ECL 20. --Foxwarrior (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and if you decide to make a Dead that's CR 20 and has 21 HD (following the pattern), then a Living Dead PC with only 10 CHA becomes overpowered at 11 HD (ECL 15). --Foxwarrior (talk) 22:28, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I know counting them on top of LA is the rule for determining ECL, but I was willing to ignore it temporarily to make the numbers sort of make sense. And I don't remember if the CR adjustment is supposed to override or add to normal HD advancement honestly. Templates are weird.

You know what, my comments here are not helpful. Let's just ignore them all. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:40, 8 December 2012 (UTC)