Talk:Battlesword (3.5e Equipment)

Damage die

d7 and d9? Edit: the listed author doesn't appear on the history of the page.--The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 16:32, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Damage dice precisation

Hi, I was thinking to make a more versatile subclass of bastard sword with a penalty of only -2 and 1d9, exactly in between 1d8 and and 1d10.

Even though a odd dices are not canonic in the d20 System, they actually exists as dices and you can buy them, so they can be introduced as a further playing options. Alternatively to a d9, for example, a DM may accept to take the above dice and diminished it (in this case 1d10-1) or allow the player to use a virtual dice roller with even and odd dice numbers.

Every weapon, whose reference dice has of course an even number, may include a shorter, lighter and handier sub-class of itself marked by the immediate inferior odd number (e.g. "1d10/1d9" or "1d8/1d7" and so on) in order to give more playing options.

Hi there!

Im trying to create a 3.5 adventure with new weapons using odd dices, and I would be very curious about the best way to create a precise mix between a longsword (1d8) and a bastard sword (1d10).

The name of the weapon is "short bastard sword" and its damage dice is 1d9 (!). Please read the page I have created on this homebrew.

I would classify the "short bastard sword" as a sub-category of the bastard sword, so that it requires a bonus strenght of 12 to be used without penalties with exotic weapon proficiency (Bastard Sword). I allow a martial weapon proficient wielder without exotic weapon proficiency to use it one-handed with a penalty of only -2.

But that's my question: for purposes like feats and abilities (for example Greater Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Specialization, Improved Critical, Weapon Focus, and Weapon Specialization).), should I treat it as bastard sword only or as a BASTARD SWORD AND a LONGSWORD? What do you thin about it?

I would really appreciate your point of view,

Thank you very much,

Zarathustra21

Short Comment: Work within more standards of the game for better results.

Slightly Longer Comment: The design space you're trying to fit into here is incredibly narrow. Muddling players down with too many options (like a huge variety of weapons to read through) can inherently be a problem. The irregular damage dice are a problem. Like, okay, explanation on that one. They don't have a damage size scaling that fits in with all other weapons and damage in the game. While rolling a one on a weapon's damage die can be disappointing, I'd never want to roll a 0 for weapon damage after hitting. The relevant RNGs here are:

•1d7: 1-7 (average 4.0)

•1d8: 1-8 (average 4.5)

•1d9: 1-9 (average 5.0)

•1d10: 1-10 (average 5.5)

•1d8-1: 0-7 (average 4.0)

•1d10-1: 0-9 (average 5.0)

You're trying to fit in the design space that's a difference of 1 damage on average between the long sword and bastard sword. That gives you so very little to work with in this instance. Also, Jeez of the Seas for the difference between those two weapons the description on the article is quite long. --Ganteka Future (talk) 01:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Zarathustra, I think that making this sword count both as a longsword and bastard sword for feats and abilities (except proficiency) would be its better quality and may be able to make some, not a lot I think though, interesting character options. Sorry for the delayed answer. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 16:17, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Damage roll with -1

The way to intend my damage calulatione if you want to use a standard dice is 1d10-1 with a minimum score of 1 for the Short Bastard Sword. A 1d9 dice on damage rolls is slightly better then 1d10-1, so a Short Bastard Sword with a 1d10-1 damage rolls may costs a little bit less, for example 20 gp.

The elephant in the room

Ok, so I'm going to say what I think about all these historical weapons. While it's neat that you want to show so many historical accurate weapons (at least I think they are, I've not much expertise on the matter), I think their existence serves no purpose on the wiki. There are multiple versions of the same weapon (long, short, heavy, two-handed) with minimal differences between them (damage die, crit multiplier and crit range, some minor bonuses to some maneuvers, proficiency, minimum Strength and so on) creating a lot of content that's either redundant with itself or with existing content, or not optimal nor interesting. For example, this article: this sword is equal in all to the bastard sword but for the damage die, cost and weight (whose differences is largely irrelevant and since it stil requires a feat to be used one-handed a pc will always choose the normal version instead of this one) and for the strange condition for Small characters wielding a medium-sized short bastard sword (what a name), which seems more of an hassle than anything else, and the 12 STR requirement for exotic weapon proficiency over the 13 STR one for the bastard sword. Really nothing interesting. And beside all this, all the other weapons share similar problems, adding lengthy and confusing descriptions, strange conditions that aren't easy to understand, bonuses or penalties with no real explanation given the shape and functions of the weapons and some confusing writing. And it seems that you are using multiple accounts to write those articles, changing them later with the one that I believe to be your main one: Zarathustra21. It's strange, you could use that one, if you need help with setting it up we can help.

Note that with all this I don't want to diminish you or your work, there may be some counter-arguments to those I made, and I don't like giving negative feedback to anyone. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 16:15, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Ok, maybe I have gone too far with details and descriptions, but let me say something about my intention to be historically accurate: what D&D calls "Longsword" is a sword technically called "arming sword" in real life; what D&D calls "Bastard sword" is a sword technically called "Longsword" in real life: there is sub-class of Longsword called Bastard sword, which I've decided to call "Short Bastard Sword" for D&D purposes. I am a master of adventures where some main characters are smiths and smith's apprentice, so I actually using odd dices to represent failed attempts to create "standard" weapons or just smith's variants in my champaign. I still don't understand why 1d9 (or, if you prefer, 1d10-1 with a minimum of 1 for damage) sounds a weird idea to you: It's the exact value of a sword too heavy for a one-handed sword (1d8) and too light for two-handed swords (1d10). Even historically the "short bastard sword" weapon was not the best weapon, but still reliable for a one-handed usage (expecially from horseback, or just in certain occasions) with a penalty of -2 fot those with the Martial weapon proficency feat.

I have decided to simplify the page, so, I just transpose here what I exactly mean with "Short Bastard Sword"

The Short Bastard Sword stays in-between the standard Longswords and the standard Bastard Swords in terms of both lenght and weight is basically represented by three sword profiles:

1) Swords with a common Longsword's blade in weight and lenght (circa 29"- 32" inches) but with a longer grip that allows enough place for two hands, as common in standard Bastard Swords (circa 7"-9" or more ).

2) Swords with a typical Longsword's grip lenght (circa 3" to 5") but with a blade lenght that is common in standard Bastard Swords (around 36"-39").

3) Swords that stays somewhere in between the previous profiles, with various combinations of balde lenght and weight and grip lenght and weight: for example weapons with blades that are just slightly longer than typical Longswords blades (and slightly shorter than typical bastard swords blades) and grips that are just slightly longer than typical longswords grips (and slightly shorter than typical bastard swords blades: we are talking about the typical "hand-and-a-half grip, which allows one hand to stay on the grip and the other hand to stay half on the grip and half on the pommel, that usually elongates itself into the grip). A good exaple of this profile would be a sword with a blade measuring 34", a grip measuring 7" and an overall lenght of 3.5 feet.

The extra weight of the blade can be given not only by the extra blade lenght, but also by the extra blade width.

As a bastard sword, A character can use a Short bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon. With the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat (for Bastard Sword), it's not necessary to have a minimum of strenght score of 13, but only of 12, to wield a Short bastard Sword in one hand. A character without the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat can use a Short bastard sword two-handed as a martial weapon and one-handed with a -2 penalty (instead of -4 of the standard Bastard Sword) to attack rolls, thanks to the relative handy nature of of the weapon (the same reduction from a -4 to a -2 penalty to attack rolls and the lack of a minimum of 13 strenght for a one-handed wielding are common characteristics of all the " light hand-and-a-half weapons".)