Talk:Spiritual Skirmisher (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

Eiji-kun likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.

Hmm, don't quite agree with Ghosty here. While this stacks with your traditional AC methods, a hard cap at +5 doesn't provide much for abuse, further compounded by a cap at armor max dex. In practice that second thing won't come up (you're in no/light armor, you will be wanting all the dex). If you're a random caster, this is wasteful since your high Int/Wis/Cha goes to waste past 20. Really it's ideal for gishes or MAD users which need some moderate buffs in the mental scores. As far as stacking issues with other homebrew, I generally discount it since homebrew is on-approval basis, and it's not certain that this feat is in while any of the X to AC feats and items also would be. The only complaint I have is that it doesn't specify a bonus, making me think it's similar properties to the monk Wis to AC bonus. That does specify that it applies to flatfooted and touch both. This probably should specify if it does as well, because the armor limitation does imply that if you lose Dex to AC, you also lose Int/Wis/Cha. And just like that it was resolved.

	Ghostwheel dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	Compare with an already-existing feat on the wiki, shielded in life, first off I think this is redundant with that on, that is High while this is Moderate, and this stacks with most anything which I also disagree with, potentially throwing people off the RNG.

Shielded in Life is a shield bonus, which I disagree with since it hurt shield user. I also fixed the whole stacking thing, which was an oversight. --Leziad (talk) 05:32, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I invite you to do the math; if you add another ability score on top of a shield bonus at higher levels, you tend to fall off the RNG. That was the reason that Shielded in Life grants a shield bonus to AC. --Ghostwheel (talk) 08:28, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

In light armor? Limited by your max dexterity? Up to +5? The only way to fall off the RNG in this case, is to be less than 5 point away from doing so anyway. I will remidn you, that the most optimal shield has a max dexterity bonus. --Leziad (talk) 08:29, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Fiiiine, I'll do the math for you. We'll be taking this to an extreme to demonstrate, using core-only material.

Halfling TWF rogue with off-hand light shield (Improved Shield Bash) starting with 16 Dexterity pre-racials, AC is: 10 (Base) + 12 (Dex) + 5 (Int/Wis/Cha) + 6 (Shield Bonus) + 5 (Deflection) + 5 (Natural Armor) + 8 (Bracers of Armor) + 1 (Size) for a total of 52 AC.

OTOH, standard attack at the same level for a level 20 barbarian 20 (BAB) + 16 (Str) + 5 (Magic) = +41/+36/+31/+26 before feats and the like.

At higher levels, the first attack, especially for a barbarian with hopped-up strength, is supposed to auto-hit so that you have a decent chance to hit with iterative attacks. As you can see, already the second attack has almost fallen off the RNG, and the 3rd and 4th have no chance of hitting except on a natural 20.

This, in my opinion, is a problem. Yes, +5 to AC can make a big difference. --Ghostwheel (talk) 08:42, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Nitpick, since I've picked this precise nit before, but I hold by the idea that having all of those addition fits you firmly in the "built for AC" category. In which case "working as designed". -- Eiji-kun (talk) 08:45, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

For the cost of a feat it seem decent, rogues don't have that many feats to begin with and have low hit points anyway. You also went at least a bit MAD by increasing your Int/Cha. On the other hand the barbarian here probably didn't need to waste a feat on Improved Shield Bash, so bonus. --Leziad (talk) 08:47, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Eiji: It's a total of 2 feats, I don't see only 2-feat investment as being "build for AC".

Lez: Not really, start with just 14 and you pick up a +6 item. On top of that, they can grab an extra feat from their special abilities, so there are a few other people who are even more feat-stared than they are.

Also, a barbarian typically uses a two-hander for maximum damage, meaning that Improved Shield Bash and having a shield you be very detrimental for him. --Ghostwheel (talk) 08:54, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

I don't actually refer to the feats. +5 nat armor, +5 ring of protection, +5 shield, +8 mage armor is expensive, especially if you also want your +6 boosters, pimped out weapons, and wondrous items of necessary utility like flight and mobility. In practice I've only seen people get "enough" rather than all of it unless they are deliberately trying to be hard to hit. Like if they're extra squishy and will die in 1-2 hits. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 09:04, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Eh, these are the minimum big 6 for any character in my opinion at high levels. Compared to the total amount of gold you have, they're not very much at all. --Ghostwheel (talk) 09:09, 28 October 2016 (UTC)