User talk:Kojopo/Copy Ninja (3.5e Class)

plz feel free to give me tips on my Character and my grammar etc anything you feel is wrong/ could be better. --124.168.38.11 12:38, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Discussion from original page

Wiki Recognizability

What is this? It should have its categories and properties set (see the preloads), and its title end with (3.5e Class) or something so that the indexing pages can sort it properly. --IGTN 04:57, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

umm i dont know how to preload >.< lol

if you tell me i can but it is ment to be a base class (3.5e Class) i have done the same thing with my other charater i have made Gaara of the sand

plz give further instructions

Follow this link to get started. Type in the name of the class (I'm not sure I recommend using a person's specific name to denote an entire base class in either this case or that of Gaara, nor am I sure that you could even consolidate Kakashi, whose strengths are based off of copying others, into something other than maybe a 3-5 level Prestige Class). In any case, typing in the name of the class in place of "MyClass" (do NOT delete the "3.5e Class" bit as it's crucial to Wiki navigation) will take you to the preload. - TG Cid 14:08, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

What would you recommend me calling them they are for all purposes the characters from the Anime or Managa that i have tryed to make into dnd characters. --Kojopo 14:18, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

im sorry but i dont know what you mean by "nor am I sure that you could even consolidate Kakashi, whose strengths are based off of copying others, into something other than maybe a 3-5 level Prestige Class)" --Kojopo 14:19, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

I can't really provide a decent alternative for a name since it's a single base class for something I would consider a more apt NPC or character build. Personally, I would design a core base class that covers all ninja and then make prestige classes for each character based on that. That's really what prestige classes are for, after all: specialization.

As for Kakashi specifically, I just meant that his whole strength comes from the Sharingan and the ability to copy other peoples techniques with it. I consider that to really be only about two or three levels worth of stuff, which makes it so the only way this functions as a base class is if you give it all the things you would normally give a regular shinobi as well. I'm not sure if that cleared anything up, but I was just thinking that it's odd to design a base class based on the specific traits of a certain character, much like you did with Gaara in giving that class Insomnia (which is more of a flaw, IMO). - TG Cid 15:02, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Interesting class. The only real problems, of course, happen to be that some of these abilities are so undefined that they are effectively unusable, and the name. The fact of the matter is that a base class is not what a person is, but is instead what people can be. It is entirely possible to have a monastery full of Monks, or an army made entirely of Fighters, or even a club house with seven Wizards hanging out. Yet, if you happen to see an town of nothing but Hatake Kakashi's, you're gonna be confused and wonder what the DM is doing. You can't name an entire class after a single person, it just doesn't work. If you can't come up with an alternate name, of course, here's a few names to get you rolling:

• Warrior of the Single Sharingan.
• Copy Ninja.
• Red Eye Ninja.
• Warrior of the Mirror.
• Ninja of the Mouth-covering Mask.

See, if you do things that way, it actually becomes easier to work things, cause if you converted this class into 'Sharingan Warrior', you could have it represent each character who actually has a sharingan, and then you provide a PrC that would allow a character to design themselves to be exactly like Kakashi, or maybe even a few PrCs that would allow them to take the concept in an entirely new direction and make up their own idea. → Rith ^(talk) 23:19, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with making the Elothar Warrior of Bladereach (3.5e Prestige Class) a base class. If a base class is only going to be played once, it only needs a breadth of one character. That said, if you are writing a whole bunch of similar, related one-character classes (I'm counting at least two that you have here), or if you want to connect that one character into a world rather than make them one of a kind, you probably want to do a class with more breadth. --IGTN 06:34, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I Have made Copy ninja so for further talk plz move there go to the copy ninja and if any admin are out there feel free to delete this one --Kojopo 12:56, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Rith i know some points are vague but plz show me the part and a exaple of a fix plz and ill try and make it less vague --Kojopo 07:28, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sure Thing

Well, the formula you have for the Chakra pool makes sense, and you explain it enough that a person would understand it, but you could execute the description a little more smoothly by saying that they get [(Their Con mod + their Wis mod) x their Copy Ninja level], and cut out half the sentences there. It makes sense as is, still. Also, what if the Copy Ninja doesn't need to sleep?

AC bonus is the standard for the Monk, so, no problem there.

Their unarmed strike is also a lift from the Monk, but, only the first paragraph is copied. Was the rest intentionally left out? Or is it supposed to work like a the Monks unarmed strike? You should probably copy the other half of it, if it's intended to work the same.

Extra Shuriken. That's odd. Does it work like a flurry of blows? Do you have to be using a full-round attack to use only shurikens? Are you actually throwing an extra shuriken and having to roll an attack roll? Can you be making a full attack with your unarmed strike then get three extra shuriken in at the end like with a speed weapon? Are the attacks associated with these shurikens made at any sort of penalty? That class feature is a bit of a problem.

Chakra Accumulation is similar to Up the Walls. Only thing here is that this ability is capable of doing multiple things, apparently, but, it is worded such a way that it's only an on/off switch. Do you turn this on, gain the ability to run up walls, across water, grapple super well, and double your speed all at the same time? Or is this is a short list of abilities, that you have to activate separately and that cost different amounts for each?

Sneak Attack, Evasion, Fast Movement, Ki Strike, Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge, and Improved Evasion are all worded like their standard counterparts, so no problem there.

Sharingan is confusing. So, the guy has a pool of 4 points per Copy Ninja level, and using the Sharingan allows for a version of true seeing, draining 1 point per round that it's active, and he can deactivate his Sharingan at any time. If he uses up all daily points, he's fatigued. On the other hand, if he uses too much in a single sitting, he gets stunned and exhausted. Is all of this correct? If so, you've done adequately. Course, then, there's the Sharingan abilities themselves.

Sharingan ability 1 is straight forward enough. Gives true seeing and a decent boost to AC and attacks, but drains the pool at double the normal rate.

Sharingan ability 2 is not anything. Does the guy pick a single target, then do exactly what that target does? Does he pick a target then write down all abilities that target uses on his character sheet, so he can use them later? Does he not have to pick a target and find himself able to copy the motions of every single person in a crowd of 10,000 people simultaneously? If he uses this ability while facing a guy, and the guy turns around and runs at one of the Copy Ninja's allies, what happens? So much stuff there is merely left undefined.

Sharingan ability 3 is Sharingan ability 1, only it costs twice as much, and gives 1.5 times as many points. It's functional, though, it makes sense.

Sharingan ability 4 is a 'save or die' effect. Interesting, but does it have a range? Can it be used on objects? Just a few minor problems there.

Ninjustu, off to a good start, the over-arcing description is fluent enough to work.

So, with Substitution Justu, when the guy has to make a reflex save or is the target of an attack, he can make a concentration check with a DC equal to the DC of the reflex save, or the result of the attack roll. If the concentration check is successful, he avoids all parts of the effect or the attack. This is accurate? Also, what if a creature full attacks and makes 2 claws and a bite, can he make a substitution for each one? So, Transformation Justu is pretty much just alter self, right? You could probably lift some of the wording from that spell. Also, what is this about 'more than friends', that needs to be defined a little more.

Erm, Shadow Windmill. So, as a standard action, you can throw two shurikens, and one gets a +1 to hit, the other, a +2 to hit. Are both attacks made at the guys highest BAB? Or are they actually 1d20+1 and 1d20+2 for the attacks? Mist Concealment. How big is this fog cloud? A 20-foot spread? A 1,000 foot spread? A 10 mile spread? Also, why does fire get rid of this mist?

Water Clone Justu is strange. Is the clone mindless? Does it do exactly what you say to do? There's just so little info there that it's difficult to think through it. Shadow Shuriken Justu is Shadow Windmill+. Same questions here as there.

Earth Wall Justu is good. Course, how tall is the wall? Can it be shaped to have a hole or a door in it or something? Shadow Clone Justu: same deal for Water Clone Justu. Water Wall Justu makes you impervious to any and all forms of attack, right? What about spells and AoE deals. Needs to be a little more defined here. Blazing Fireball is cool.

So, Chidori requires an attack roll, right? Is it a touch attack or a normal attack or what? Great Waterfall Justu. Does it allow a save for half damage at all? Multi Shadow Clone Justu: see Water Clone Justu.

So, Grand Fireball makes a 20 foot wide/tall, 60 foot long area be hit with a lot of fire damage? So, with Water Dragon, the Copy Ninja makes a touch attack against every single creature he wishes to, within 30 feet of him, and deals this damage to them?

Okay, clones with disintegrating death throes. Interesting. Still faced with the deal with the other clone ones, but, wow, that's a big capstone.

There, think the entire class was got in one sweep. → Rith ^(talk) 12:58, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Fixes

First of i have to say thank you for the help with clearing a few of my flaw out.

Chakra should be fixed.

unarmed strike should be good

Extra Shuriken i hopeful explained it better

Chakra Accumulation yes it is a on/off switch they are all done sepratlly yes but it is just like walking then jumping can be done with ease together.

Sharigan is not if he uses too much in a single sitting its if he uses it all up (would become fatiuged) then he can get more and if he uses that up gets stunned then exhausted.

Sharingan ability 2 i think is fixed but is the worst to try and work (if you know were I'm going with it by what I've said and can write it better plz do so in the talk so i can copy it so people can understand what the ability does)

Sharingan ability 4 since its a sight technique anything you can see you can use it on and yes can be done on any object or creature.

Substitution Justu yes all effects from the spell or attack use (if it works it means hes not thee anymore) it only works on attack of opportunity so full attacks i don't think work with this skill. hope that clears it up for that.

Transformation Justu fixed

Shadow Windmill Fixed

Mist concealment fixed works the same as Obscuring Mist.

Water clone and shadow clones work like a bad version of Perfect Clone [1]

Water wall Fixed i think

Earth wall Fixed

Great Waterfall fixed

Grand Fireball dialed back too d6 but yes work exactly as you said.

Water Dragon works exactly as you said

Ok i think thats it.

ask if you still have any questions or if you think i haven't fixed a problem i said i have. --Kojopo 12:49, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Extra Shuriken

I have no idea what this ability is supposed to do. At all. The grammar and clarity, overall, needs major work. Karrius 06:27, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Ratings

	Spanambula opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This is.... bad. Though I kinda want to know what true sight does mechanically. All it's missing is really bad Naruto fanart in an image box.

Ganteka Future opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

Hey hey! I just finished reading this out loud, and oh boy! It sure was a thing I just read. Uhh... it's really a bad class. Typos, weird ability structure, just sorta strangeness to it. Like a clunky 1940's tractor that sat out in a barn for too many years, unused. Except that instead of a tractor, this is a class based off anime stuff and is likely to not age as well as say... a classic John Deere. Not sure why I went with the tractor thing here. I guess it just sorta broke me. With 40d8 damage. Humor aside, trying to parse some of this mess is a bit difficult and what is there is sorta cobbled together from a rogue and a monk. It ends up with way too much stuff that's all separate sub-systems that don't work off each other. Eh, sandbox this.

	Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	I had this class read to me. It was like a minefield of new and horrifying things which sprung up everywhere. I am not even sure where to begin, but boy... this is a stinker.

ThunderGod Cid opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

So let me preface by saying that I generally despise D&D adaptations of anime, and this class gives me no reason not to continue said trend. Firstly, it's core is a monk (a MONK), which makes me cry. It's a martial class that uses shuriken and ideally makes lots of attack rolls, yet it has Medium BAB. This pains me. While power-wise the Sharingan and ninjutsu things may theoretically make up for this deficiency, they leave a lot to be desired in terms of quality. There is a slew of spelling and grammatical errors, the formatting is generally ugly, and the lack of any changes made in over a year suggests that it's going nowhere fast. Not much to get excited about, except maybe an impending removal from the main nav.