Talk:Dwarf (3.5e Race)

It's just like the base dwarf, only unbalanced and with fewer interesting abilities. To summarise: rubbish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.152.199.106 (talk • contribs) at

Right, because a Charisma penalty and a laundry list of absurdly situational passive bonuses are sooooo interesting. Do tell, sir!

Unbalanced? Hardly. The simple fact is the SRD dwarf is loaded with way too much gobshite that will never be useful. All those abilities you deign to call "interesting" are just god-awful trash, and none of it can match the sheer versatility of the human's bonus feat anyway. The base human is probably still stronger than this version. In short, the basic dwarf sucked so bad that there's no reason for anyone to ever play it, so streamlining it and removing nonsensical ability score penalties served the desired end. - TG Cid (talk) 07:24, 2 December 2017 (MST)

That's why nobody ever plays dwarves, right? Oh, hold on, they do. Loads of people do. It's pretty obvious that this 'race' was tailor-made for one player who didn't want a Charisma penalty on his special-snowflake dwarf item-crafter. If you look at the other core races in the PHB, you might just notice that their ability score modifiers follow a pattern of +2/-2. If you're really observant, you might also notice that these core races are the most played races in the game. They also have a broad range of situational abilities, not one racial ability cherry-picked for its utility to a specific type of character.

Cid, but you say yourself that you "don't always have the best grasp of mechanics and gameplay", so I'll explain my point about it being unbalanced. Humans get one extra skill and a feat, right? This race, through its one named ability, gets all of the item creation feats for free at level 1: in core, that's 23 freaking feats! He also is proficient with an exotic weapon (which, although pretty weak, is technically equivalent to a feat), plus he gets save bonuses against just about everything, double-darkvision, and a +2 Con bonus to boot. It's actually a pretty powerful race by PHB standards, and it appears to be aimed towards a very specific type of character (i.e. an item-crafter)- this makes it very alien when compared to the other, more versatile races in the PHB.

TL/DR stop 'fixing' things that aren't broken, ya dingus.

I am a bit hesitant on this version, it does force pretty much any item crafter characters to be a dwarf and every dwarf to craft. I mean the human as a race is overall versatile, but an individual humans cannot switch his feat around. Unlike the IP I am not against an alternative rebuild to dwarves, but I agree it overly focused and a bit overzealous at that. A dwarven fighter a is better crafter than a human wizard that used all his feats for crafting, at level 1. --Leziad (talk) 11:03, 21 December 2017 (MST)

Seven years later, Hammer and Tongs goes down to just magic arms and armor (equivalent of one feat), so no more wand or potion-spamming dwarves. I also added a couple minor things, but open to toning down the magic resistance if it's too much. Also been considering dropping the +2 Con bonus but decided to leave it for now. - TG Cid (talk) 23:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)