Talk:Forsaker (3.5e Prestige Class)

Off the RNG

Effectively, many characters will take this class to get +10 strength, which transfers to a +5 modifier over other characters. Now, I'm not worried about the damage, but the attack rolls will be strongly effected, and may push the class too high on the RNG as far as attack rolls on concerned. Perhaps another option instead of straight increases to ability scores might be the way to go? --Ghostwheel 18:09, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Except that other characters will have +5 weapons, and the forsaker will not. Since he doesn't get magic items at all (see Forsake Magic ability) he has to make it up elsewhere. - TarkisFlux 18:23, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

And the other characters can have +5 Tomes of Strength and +6 Belts of Giant Strength. The character is pretty close to the 3.0 version of the Forsaker. I nerfed his Damage Reduction in exchange for better Fast Healing. --STDoc 18:25, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Ah, forgot about that. With that, I think the class is horribly underpowered. Much of the power characters in 3.5 have is based on their items--just look at the Big Six, as well as all the miscellaneous items they use for utility or to get out of sticky situations. Vow of Poverty is usually seen as being on the slightly underpowered side, and a level in the class is effectively that, but without the multitude of bonuses. --Ghostwheel 18:32, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

I had forgotten about those tomes. I second Ghostwheel on the item front.

Otherwise, he has good saves, all of the special save abilities, and ok SR, but his touch AC is poor and he lacks significant offensive abilities. He's an ok 'you can't hurt me guy', but he doesn't back that up with a reason to target him over other party members. He also can't deal with flyers or teleporters or other kiters at all, and that's a substantial issue for him. He doesn't need to deal with all of them, but a strike that acted like a dimensional anchor (to foil teleporters) or otherwise disrupted spellcasting, or abilities similar to the anti-caster feats that I can't remember the name of might help him remain more relevant after the item issue has been resolved. - TarkisFlux 18:47, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

But the ease of abuse is prevalent. I'm wary about making it more powerful, because a good aligned Forsaker could take Vow of Poverty and get quite a bit stronger.--STDoc 18:51, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps give it an ability that stops it for working? For example, requiring the forsaker to carry a crystal worth at least 100 gp for at least 1 day per week (not hard at all) or lose their abilities? This would make it easy to fulfill, while stopping someone from grabbing both VoP and Forsaker. Then you could boost the Forsaker without having to worry about VoP. --Ghostwheel 19:07, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

I've Got it! Let's take a nod from the Occult Slayer. The Forsaker needs to have a Masterwork Weapon (or in the case of Monks, masterwork Bracers/Gauntlets, etc) in order for his abilities to work.--STDoc 19:10, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

Nice idea! Yeah, that could work well. Now just be sure to buff it up a ton to make up for the lack of any boosts from magical items. --Ghostwheel 19:34, September 26, 2009 (UTC)

I've added in an Anti-Magic Strike Ability which functions like Dispel Magic, and an ability which drains a spellcaster's spells and turns them into hit points for the Forsaker.

While you're at it, could you add in the paragraph description of the class, etc., where it's prompted to do so? Thanks! Surgo 19:50, September 26, 2009 (UTC)