Talk:Hivemaster (3.5e Class)

Hive Mind

Might wanna make it so that the intelligent vermin can't perform the aid another action for the Hivemaster, or else we've got nanobots all over again. --Ghostwheel 23:47, October 18, 2009 (UTC)

For clarification, where should that part be included? - TG Cid 19:49, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Well, as written, the Hivemaster Wins D&D at 12th level. He might not get the ability score benefits, but his vermin do, and he has an arbitrary number of them in and on his body (as 1st level Swarm ability). Even with the somewhat non-arbitrary number given ("trillions"), which implies a lower bound of 2 trillion, that still means that his swarm will have an Intelligence and Charisma of ~40 billion, with a Sorcerer caster level of about the same. Which is... slightly broken. --Neofenrir 18:54, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's definitely a work in progress. In D&D the idea of a swarm of Fine creatures is something in the thousands, whereas realistically it's probably somthing significantly higher. "Trillions" of insects was hyperbolizing for the most part, and the hive mind would obviously be limited so that it does not recieve such benefits. Hiveminds are a somewhat tricky matter that I'm still working on. Thanks anyway for pointing it out. - TG Cid 19:49, October 19, 2009 (UTC)

At some point, on the WotC boards (and perhaps in something "official"), it was suggested that a single swarm only count as a single mind/ally. Perhaps that mechanic can be worked in? --Be well 00:00, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

That sounds appropriate. So the hivemaster counts as one, the vermin companion (which I'm going to actually put in detail soon) could count, and the swarms count as one. Thanks. - TG Cid 11:09, October 20, 2009 (UTC)

Another possible issue with Hive Mind is that there's no provision against using it on hostile vermin, nor on the number of times the ability can be used. So, the Verminfriend feat and even the capstone ability are overshadowed by this ability, as he can just spend a standard action (I assume, as no definition is given) and have total control over all vermin around him. So there should either be some kind of save, or (and I like this idea better) it should take a decent amount of time to do. Something like 10 minutes or so, so it's never going to be used in combat. --Neofenrir 03:52, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Balance Point

I don't think the Hivemaster meets the criteria for a Wizard balance point. I haven't seen any of the Hivemaster feats that the class is supposed to get (do those exist yet?) but they'd have to be some pretty damn good feats to get it up to Wizard-level power. The only possible method (thus far) of getting abilities to rival the Wizard is Hivemind, but you need a crap-ton of vermin and DM fiat for that, so that can't really be counted. This isn't a complaint or anything — I like the class, I just think it's closer to a Rogue than a Wizard. --Neofenrir 08:20, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I'm somewhat in agreement with you, but the feats are what were supposed to push it to that level. The feats that I have made so far can be found here, and the complete list (so far at least, as more may come) is in here. - TG Cid 18:36, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

Swollen Swarm

I think the "does not take damage" line should be moved to the 1st level Swarm ability. Even though it only affects a 5-foot square, as written, if the hivemaster uses Swarm against a Medium or smaller enemy grappling him (or against small creatures otherwise attacking him in his square), until 8th level he takes damage and is subject to the nausea effect, which doesn't make any sense to me. --Neofenrir 11:34, October 25, 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Done. - TG Cid 11:40, October 25, 2009 (UTC)