Talk:Safir (5e Race)

Re: Unbalanced

“When compared to other races presented in the Player's Handbook, this race gives considerably more”

Other than reverting the edits made by 162.158.122.117 and the changes made to the Naturally Psionic trait by 162.158.122.99, what might be worth cutting to rebalance the 5/e safir? Does this answer change if reminded that the 3.5/e safir are LA +1? Halian (talk) 02:25, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Seeing as there are no power points, no multiweapon fighting, no know direction and location, no sensitivity to psychic impressions, and no psionic dimension door, and LA isn't a thing in 5e, there is a lot that doesn't work whatsoever with this race. I would start by learning the system before homebrewing for it and referencing abilities that don't even exist within the system. --Ghostwheel (talk) 06:06, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

As a counterpoint, you could add that:

• When a Safir engages in Two-Weapon Fighting, they may make 2 additional attacks with their third and fourth hands, though these attacks are made at disadvantage and deal half damage.
• Safir have a Psionic Talent Die, a d6, which they can roll and add when they make an Insight check.
• Insight Proficiency
• Safir also unerringly know which direction is north, and while traveling for at least an hour, cannot become lost except by magical means.

And then, like. Maybe some racial feat that lets them cast Misty Step 1/short rest, but doing so automatically reduces their Psionic Talent die's size by one step.

Just some ideas, since I know I hate it when people criticize without making suggestions beyond "do better". --Zhenra-Khal (talk) 06:21, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the ideas; I've gone ahead and implemented them. Halian (talk) 02:51, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

Even with the changes, I feel that the race is still unbalanced. I personally like this guide to race balance, so we'll use that, though there are any number of other ones out there. Most races are "worth" 20-30 points, so let's break down what the Safir gets, and how much each feature is worth.

• +3 total to ASIs is 12 points.
• Darkvision is 3 points.
• Four-armed is amazing, even with the disadvantage. Added together, it's basically an extra attack overall, and even more amazing for crit-fishers and the like. At least 8 points.
• Sending - this should just grant the message cantrip. We'll peg this at 2 points.
• Empathy - It's an extremely powerful ability in social situations, and thus deserves around 5 points. Would be better as getting the Detect Thoughts spell once per day at 3rd level.
• Awakened Mind - worth 4 points together.
• Mindsight - Easily worth at least 6 points, as you'll rarely be surprised again. Also, no such thing as "blindsense" in 5e outside of a late-game rogue ability.
• Lílitāi - Misty step is an excellent 2nd level spell, especially on a short rest. This should really be on a long rest cooldown, but since most people get two short rests a day, we'll call this at around at least 8 points. Also, I don't think that's how psionic dice work...
• Mental Map - Ribbon ability, but quite good. Let's put it at 2 points.

This gives us a total of 50 points, way more than what other races in the PHB are worth. --Ghostwheel (talk) 06:17, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

As stated on Discord, I've made some changes, but would like to keep Four-Armed and Mindsight in some form, as I consider those emblematic of the safir. As they now are, I count 36 points. Halian (talk) 09:27, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

I'd say to lose another 6 points and you'd probably be good. If you lose the +2 to ability scores that could be good. Or you could do something similar to how Starfinder did their four armed race where you can hold four items (which is already pretty good), but each turn you choose two arms and those are the ones that you can use that turn. 2 additional attacks are VERY powerful.

Plus, I honestly think that blindsight is worth more than the points I assigned it, since comparatively, rogues get a worse version at level 14 and it's only got a 10' radius. I would probably nerf that quite a bit as well in a more creative way than just giving blindsight. Honestly, it's probably worth 12-16 points. --Ghostwheel (talk) 10:47, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Changed Four-Armed to crib from Starfinder; changed Mindsight to advantage on Perception checks to notice creatures within 30 ft. Halian (talk) 11:07, 20 October 2020 (UTC)