User talk:Luigifan18/Forewarned is Foreguarded (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

Tarkisflux opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

I don't buy the premise of the feat, and see no reason why spending a half second standing there figuring out what is coming is any sort of benefit when you don't have much time more than that to deal with it. Something with a cast time longer than 1 action I could see that argument applying to maybe, but the time scale here is just to short to be relevant IMO. But that's a rather minor concern, and not why I really dislike this feat. Since there is no action to ID a spell with spellcraft and the check scales at half the rate of your likely skill investment, the effect boils down to a net +4 on all saves and personal SR (if you have it) as long as you aren't ambushed. At level 6 when you can first get this, it's only most of the time against spells that you're likely to see in play, but at higher levels it turns pretty quickly into all of the time against spells that are even higher level than you can cast. And an extra +4 to all your saves is not something I think the game needs. The prereq line is a mess, and offers 36 different feat and skill combinations to get into it. Really. The special block is also a mess, and scales the already large bonus of a type you probably didn't have. And then offers you extra bonus abilities if you meet new prereqs on top of that. The latter is an interesting idea actually, but not one I can get behind in this multiple benefit path format.

Comments

There's a lot here that I don't like, but we'll start with the bonus size and spellcraft check first. You do know that the spellcraft check is 15+ spell level right? So with the minimum skill ranks (12) and intelligence modifier (+3) they have a +15 to their check. They automatically ID 1st level spells, and ID 9th level spells more than half the time (and eventually get to auto ID them too). And since it doesn't take an action, they can do it against every cast spell if they want. So... was the intent to give them +6 SR and save bonus against almost every spell that isn't cast in ambush against them? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 20:23, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

The intent was the idea that if you know how a spell works, you have a pretty good idea of how to defend yourself against it. Maybe the bonus can be halved against a spell that you don't know yourself? --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

... So, "yes" then? It was intended to give people bonuses against everything since they have a negligible (if not actually 0 because there is no auto-fail on 1 rule for skills) chance of failure? Because that is what it does. By level 17, 8 levels after you acquire this feat, you never fail to ID level 9 spells. If that mechanical effect is intentional, you might as well cut the check and simplify to just give it to them. The failure chance here is not significant at any level, so it's not adding very much other than fluff IMO. And if that mechanical effect is not intentional, then you need to rework your core mechanic because that is what you are doing, fluff intentions aside. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 21:52, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

No, the mechanical effect wasn't intentional. I just thought the effect was powerful enough that it justified some high prerequisites. I'll tone down the prerequisites so that this feat can be taken while there's still a failure chance, then. --Luigifan18 (talk) 22:09, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

So... it's intentional for you to outgrow the failure chance? And for you to auto-ID 9th level spells as soon as you acquire them? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 22:20, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it's intentional to eventually outgrow the failure chance. Not to already be well on your way there when you first take the feat! And I didn't realize that you could auto-ID 9th-level spells at the same level that you became able to use them - I thought the Spellcraft DC was higher than it actually was. (Too much time around epic spells, I suppose - have you seen their DCs? I made Rod's Boon and the "Excellent Trainee" feat chain primarily to make those more manageable!) --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:20, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

<Tangent>I've seen the Epic DCs, but never spent much time playing with them in an actual game. But that was years ago, and I've pretty much written off everything over level 20 as a "big unworkable mess that isn't worth worrying about" (Eiji's in process work not withstanding). So I don't really worry about them much anymore.</Tangent>

Anyway, I had a thought that might be helpful. Make the bonus cost an immediate action, so most characters are limited to 1 per round. It's still a big bonus and they're still extremely likely to get it and there's still a bunch of stuff attached to it that I don't think necessary or useful, but that at least limits it a bit more than the skill check does and may impact them in other ways. Alternately, you could let them have a 10' move as an immediate after IDing a spell so that they can just get out of the way instead of worrying about bonuses and whatnot. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:01, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

I just had a better idea, which I've just implemented. If you have to recall information in a big hurry, isn't it harder to recall that information? So, I decided that this feat increases Spellcraft DCs. You can use an immediate action to offset the DC increase a bit. --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:50, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

As a Scaling feat

Would this be better? Forewarned is Foreguarded [Skill] (flavor text) Benefits: This is a skill feat that scales with your ranks in Spellcraft. 0 ranks: You gain a +10 bonus on Spellcraft checks to identify a spell being cast. 4 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed,you gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus to saving throws against spells that allow spell resistance. 9 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed,you gain +2 SR (or SR 8+LVL, whichever is higher)against spells that allow spell resistance. 14 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed,you gain both evasion and mettle against spells that allow spell resistance. 19 ranks: As long as you are not flat-footed,you can choose to ignore the effects of one spell that allows spell resistance per round. User:Fluffykittens