Talk:Eldritch Craft (3.5e Invocation)

Ratings

Blocked Rating	Foxwarrior opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This rating refers to a substantially different version of the article, or concerns mentioned in it have already been addressed.Fabricate is a pretty decent wizard spell for wizard-level wizards, and one that you can use during downtime where at-will would actually make a different. Getting it earlier and at-will would be a bit much for a Very High Balance invocation...

ErikOfWiki dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

This is bad design, but quantifiably bad. To correct it one would need to amend how early it comes online, what level of invocation it is and possibly cap its use to per day. Example of an acceptable version would be if it remained Least Invocation and reduced the casting time of Fabricate to 1/10th, but does not grant casting of Fabricate itself. Another acceptable version might be if it was raised to Greater Invocation or maybe Dark (and if Dark then improved slightly either to be expedited or larger volume). As Fox indicated, not all spells are equal with at will casting. Look at other 5th level spells. At will raise dead or teleport or magic jar as an invocation is a game changer. Even at will cure minor suddenly becomes infinite healing between combats.

About ratings

While I'm willing to change the effects regarding fabricate I need to understand why it should be changed. To my understanding the spell doesn't allow to cheat on expenses, which because the caster must still spend gold of equal value as the raw material it wants to create, and must still make a Craft check to succeed. This means that the spell seem to only solve the problem of tools and redice a bit the time needed. But the utility seems to be still very situational. I'd like your opinion on that. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 23:25, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

"reduce a bit" is a bit of an understatement. Raw materials for mundane craft are a third of the finished price (and by RAW (somewhere, I think...?) you can sell pretty much anything for half its finished price), and the amount of time it takes to craft stuff normally is a pretty respectable chunk of time, filling a 10' cube with clothes could take months or years of regular craft checks. From a setting-building perspective, a 7th level warlock with this invocation could out-produce a large city of normal expert artisans. Which is arguably a fine thing to do... but generally a bit higher level and not at Moderate balance. --Foxwarrior (talk) 23:52, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Or Fabricate a 5' section of dungeon wall into an archway and statues commemorating the time the adventuring party no longer needed to use doors or be impeded by barriers ever again. If you believe Fabricate is a 5th level spell using an honest to gosh spell slot and spell known, then it should not be granted at will by a Least Invocation, even with a slight level gap to 'only' get it 2 levels earlier than a Very High full caster. --ErikOfWiki (talk) 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Changed it to once a week. Just for the record, I don't think that fabricate may be used to produce a 10' cube of clothes from a 10' cube of anything else because the spell clearly uses value to determine what it can do, not mass or weight. But that's not important here and now. Thanks for the feedback anyway, let me know if this version is more in line with the Moderate rating. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 00:41, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I still don't understand why Fabricate comes online at 7th level, and from the Least tier of Invocation which is used to duplicate up to 2nd level spells (darkvision, spiderclimb, see invisible, darkness, fog cloud, summon swarm). Even the next higher tier, Lesser, is only used for up to level 4 spells (fly, charm monster, invisibility, variant dimension door). And the most powerful spellcasters get fabricate at 9th level at the earliest. If you want to grant a 5th level spell then it's a Greater Invocation, but as an upside it can be at will. If you put it down to Lesser you could give it Minor Creation at will, which isn't bad at all. Heck Major Creation might even be ok because while it is 5th level it's far less problematic than Fabricate.--ErikOfWiki (talk) 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Fabricate definitely uses cubic material not value. And now that you've changed it to Major Creation it's like... better maybe, but still bad! Instantaneous Major Creation once per day or whatever is just obviously a thing you should only use to make money. I'd RATHER it be at will Major Creation, since then at least all they do is spam rooms full of poison for every combat instead of making actual money. Like, what is the thing you actually want this invocation to do? To me, I think the really obviously cool thing you want to do is Fabricate, but if that's the case the should get it (ot at least the Fabricate part of it) after Wizards do. But like what is your actual goal? What is a use of this you want people to do in games? --Kaelik (talk) 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Major Creation - Instantaneous

Just wanted to confirm, is the intent to allow PCs to create 7 pounds of platinum (or even more costly materials--I'm sure there are ones that are even more expensive, like maybe adamantine?) that last forever at 7th level? --Ghostwheel (talk) 18:28, 12 June 2024 (UTC)