Talk:Euphoric Blade (3.5e Feat)

Rating

Franken Kesey dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

For the cost of a single feat, a user gets access to the best of two classes. Wilder is already wizard level. The issue is not balance level. It is the power gained from a single feat. At minimum you need 4 levels in wilder and 3 in soulknife to take it. At this level you can psychic strike +2d8, your mindblade has a +1 bonus, plus a +1 enchantment; then you can wild surge +3, and have surging euphoria +1 (or 2d8+3 total). Additionally, you gain access to the wilder power list. At later levels this damage increases greatly. The quantity of features gained far outweigh the cost of a singular feat slot. For example at 20th level this give 4d8+5 plus +5 worth of enchantments (if you only rank in wilder after), or +2 euphoria plus +4 wild surge (if you only rank in soulknife). At 20th, a mostly wilder (17 and 3) with Vicious+2d6, Collision+5 and Psychokinetic Burst+1d4 enchantments increases damage total to 4d8+5+2d6+5+1d4+1 (or 38.5 on average). No other standard feat compares to that. Common standard feats give a +2 bonus to attack or damage, or a +1d6 to damage (or +3.5). Sure the 3.5 damage of standard is low. Having a feat which gives a +10 bonus to damage overall would not be bad. But this is far from it giving 38.5 extra damage and +6 to attack!

It does not mention if their soulknife and wilder classes stack for the purposes of powers known, power points or manifester level.--Franken Kesey 21:25, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

If it does not mention it, then they don't. Surgo (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

On top of that, I would argue that the manifesting progression of the wilder is the best part of it. As for soulknife... well, the class *is* Moderate level, and this brings it up to High-ish? So I don't see what the problem with that is. --Ghostwheel (talk) 19:51, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Wait, are you stating that manifester level also stacks with this feat?--Franken Kesey 19:53, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Rating says: The issue is not balance level. It is the power gained from a single feat. At minimum you need 4 levels in wilder and 3 in soulknife to take it. You're complaining that the feat is too powerful when you have to make yourself suck by taking 3 levels in soulknife in order to get it? Wut? The feat doesn't even begin to make up for that. Surgo (talk) 21:27, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Will show how powerful this is. But first need an answer from the author on if this stacks manifester levels (liked your answer Surgo, but then Ghost suggested they stacked; thus need to confirm). Secondly, it states it stacks mind blade, what aspects (i.e., just the +1 per four, or +1 per four AND enchantment, or plus weapon focus, or plus bladewind, throw blade etc.).--Franken Kesey 21:42, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Nothing he said implies it adds manifester levels. If the feat doesn't say it does, then it doesn't. Surgo (talk) 21:48, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

→Reverted indentation to one colon

Is the progression of mind blade just the +1 every four, or is it +1 AND the enhancements?--Franken Kesey 21:56, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Could make an argument based on text for either one, but I'd assume both. Surgo (talk) 22:01, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

DPR with this Feat

The Balanced Wealth variant rule was used for all the below numbers. With the assumption that the primary ability score starts at 18, and a racial bonus of +2. AC is calculated as ECL*1.5+10. This only uses the greater two-weapon fighting feat (and prerequisite feats) for simplicity. Most would optimize this even more.

This requires one round to prepare by manifesting powers, thus multiply DPR by two to find damage in final round.

• At 20th: offensive precognition (19pp, +7 attack) and offensive prescience (19pp, +8 damage; quickened, surged). Total DPR vs. 40AC =158.59
  • 1st Mind Blade attack: 1d6 base+5d8 psychic strike+5 mind blade+enhancements (Keen, Vicious+2d6, Psychokinetic+1d4, Psychokinetic Burst+1d4, +1d6 on crit)+3 euphoria+8 power (see above)+13((20Str+16BW-10)/2) =67
  • All other Mind Blade attacks: 1d6 base+5 mind blade+enhancements (Keen, Vicious+2d6, Psychokinetic+1d4, Psychokinetic Burst+1d4, +1d6 on crit)+3 euphoria+8 power (see above)+13((20Str+16BW-10)/2) =44.5
  • 1st Critical Damage: 44.5(all minus strike)x2+3.5+13Str+22.5 =128.5
  • All other Critical Damage: 44.5x2+3.5+13Str =105.5
  • Attack: Strength modifier 13, BAB +15, +5 weapon, +3 euphoria, +7 powers, -2 two weapon fighting (greater two-weapon fighting feat), +1 weapon focus (psychic warrior), total attack =+42/+37/+32/+42/+37/+32

Whereas a rogue with similar stats has a DPR of 131.55. --Franken Kesey 22:59, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

Psychic strike is a move action and only affects the first hit made after you use it... Also, what's up with that "+10 weapon" -- enhancement bonus on mind blade is only +5. Surgo (talk) 23:03, 5 May 2019 (MDT)

+5 from class and +5 from balanced wealth. Still a single feat to make them above rogue level. Still significantly more damage gained than any SRD feat.--Franken Kesey 07:22, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

Enhancement bonuses don't stack... SRD feats are almost all low or moderate balance and are not a baseline, or are you going to go dislike/oppose every High and Very High feat on the wiki now? Surgo (talk) 08:04, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

Where is all this hostility coming from? I based this rating on a metric, for otherwise there is no way to measure it against other stuff. My rating is in higher quality than most because of this. Many ratings on this wiki just say "Well done." "Good job." etc. without mentioning math or showing comparison. I have positively rated Leziad's LA feat, which is also a multiclass feat. And further, the vast majority of my ratings are positive. However, certain articles do have mechanical issues which make them worthy of negative ratings. This is one of those articles. The biggest issue is the amount of damage and features gained from one feat. This even gives more boons than most ranking feats.--Franken Kesey 08:27, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

Your supposed "metric" and math is completely wrong and ignores fundamentals of the 3.5 system. For fucks sake, you have enhancement bonuses stacking in your math. Even after this obvious mistake is pointed out to you, it's still there! Surgo (talk) 08:42, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

→Reverted indentation to one colon

You have failed to excuse this classes massive bonus to features from a single feat. Common standard feats give a +2 bonus to attack or damage, or a +1d6 to damage (or +3.5). This feat gives 4d8+5 plus +5 worth of enchantments (if you only rank in wilder after), or +2 euphoria plus +4 wild surge (if you only rank in soulknife). At 20th, a mostly wilder (17 and 3) with Vicious+2d6, Collision+5 and Psychokinetic Burst+1d4 enchantments increases damage total to 4d8+5+2d6+5+1d4+1 (or 38.5 on average). No other feat compares to that.

Sure the 3.5 damage of standard is low. Having a feat which gives a +10 bonus overall would not be bad. But this is far from it giving 38.5 extra damage!--Franken Kesey 09:15, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

Except it's not giving you +5 worth of enhancements. You already get that for free with Balanced Wealth. All it gives you is Psychic Strike, which you have to trade three Wilder levels for, which makes you weaker. Taking this feat as a Wilder makes you *worse*. Surgo (talk) 09:37, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

Fixed the stacking. Used the variant to balance against rogue, not all GMs will allow it. This feat gives the +5 from mind blade PLUS the +5 enchantments (which in the above example gives 2d6+5+1d4). Thus would give a mostly wilder +38.5 extra damage and +6 to attack.--Franken Kesey 09:55, 6 May 2019 (MDT)

You're the one who used Balanced Wealth for your comparison... It's not as if you couldn't have it otherwise, because you can just buy a sword with those bonuses. And unlike a sword, you can't buy a feat. Surgo (talk) 10:00, 6 May 2019 (MDT)