Talk:Heart of Void (3.5e Equipment)

I made an edit to this item and the other four elemental equivalents on dandwiki, namely a change to the rage-like abilities. The altered version is given here, but I'm not changing it without permission. 70.53.127.40 20:00, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Zero Trance: You push your body and mind to the limits, entering a sort of "trance rage". Succeed on a concentration check DC 20, and gain +4 to any two ability scores of your choice and +2 on all skill checks. This rage lasts for 3+your possibly newly modified charisma modifier rounds, and is often accompanied by your skin turning pitch and light bending around you. However this power comes at a dire cost and when it ends you are helpless for 1 minute as your mind and body reels from the effort, and must make a DC 20 Will save or be rendered insane. You can only zero trance 1/encounter, but there is no literal limit to the number of times it may be entered. However, each time it is successfully entered, the DC on all future concentration checks will rise by +5. This count can be reset by receiving a new blessing, although the normal requirements still apply (i.e. at least 1 month must have passed since the last blessing)

Hmmm, by making it a 1 month refresh time to lower the DC it highly restricts the use of the trance. While this isn't bad, it would seem it would no longer be even to the other powers you can get from it, so no one would take it. Wouldn't that be a problem? -- Eiji-kun 20:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Compare to the original, which has no way of resetting the DC at all, and thus restricts it even more. The change is actually just clarification, not an actual change from my reading. If that's weaker than the others then it's technically not my problem. 74.12.10.39 15:09, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Oh, if that's it... the reset was meant to be daily. -- Eiji-kun 15:18, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

I figured that might have been the intention last night, but things like that need to be stated outright or they don't exist. Permission to consider that, and the copy/paste errors spread throughout the Heart items, a clarity edit? 74.12.10.39 19:07, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

You don't need permission for that one, go get 'em tiger. -- Eiji-kun 00:01, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Something unrelated that I forgot about. These things are only minor artifacts, so there are certainly several of each. How do they stack if you have several of the same element? 74.12.10.39 20:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Didn't need to specify, because same effects overlap, they don't stack. I'll find the rules quote if needed. -- Eiji-kun 20:51, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

But are all the different choices the same effect? It could be argued either way, and you want to avoid arguments. Nonetheless, here's some odd things I noticed across the Heart items:

The Heart of Water's rage-like drawback effectively doesn't exist, as the +4 to Wisdom cancels out the -2 to Will saves, and then some.

The Save vs. Insanity on the Heart of Void's rage-like doesn't increase with repeated use like the concentration check. Intended?

The rage-likes either don't specify an action for the Concentration check, or specify a free action. There's nothing stopping you from trying to enter it over and over until you succeed. That almost certainly wasn't intended.

The Heart of Void's elemental summon shouldn't grant a language because void elementals don't have one. Is that actually worth giving them something extra to compensate?74.12.10.39 21:23, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

You have a sharp eye, IP'd one. On how they overlap, it's time limit prevents multiple uses unless you have multiple hearts of Xs lying around... if you had two heart of voids, you could apply one Cloak of Ruin and one Empty Soul (but not two Empty Souls since the effect is redundant and overlaps). Of course, that relies on you having two hearts of void. Same goes if you have a heart of void and heart of fire, or any other combination of hearts, you can draw different things from each of them.

Good point on the Heart of Water. Perhaps make it a Fort penalty?

The fixed DC for insanity is intended. A rising concentration check + helplessness is punishment enough.

Right, let's make the concentration check DC a free action, but only once per round. That way if they keep failing, its eating up valuable combat time.

And finally, good catch, void elementals lack a language to my knowledge, so we can drop it. The language is fluff and gravy. -- Eiji-kun 22:35, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

The reason I was asking about the stacking was, in fact, for the corner case of having multiple of the same heart, which, since there are in fact multiple of each heart, is something that needs to be addressed. I'm not sure why it took so long for you to actually realize that, though. Incidentally, the CAPTCHA is broken for when a picture contains both a cat and a dog. Found that out the hard way. 70.52.150.245 19:07, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Same person as the IP'd stuff above: somebody seems to have reverted the edits we agreed on. Since you agreed to all of those edits, that probably shouldn't have happened. However, it'd take a significant amount of effort to put things back the way they were, so I'm asking permission to change things back to the version that doesn't have obvious flaws and copy-paste errors. 198.84.240.219 20:05, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Same guy as above, but now I have an account, because somebody recommended it to help prevent this from happening again. Not sure if it will, but hey. Opera's Herald (talk) 20:40, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Hoo boy I have to look these over and see what changed. Since I have no time now you have my permission to fix anything before I get around to it. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 21:04, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

And done. There's still the question of clarifying the fact that you can gain multiple bonuses if you have several of the same type of Heart. I'm not sure how to word it, so I'll leave that to you. Opera's Herald (talk) 21:55, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Merci, kindly Opera. I'll have a go at it sometime later tonight. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 22:42, 28 August 2016 (UTC)