Talk:Metamagic Expertise (3.5e Feat)

Balance

Metamagic shenanigans should always be VH IMO, since they can lead to some pretty crazy things. --Ghostwheel (talk) 06:58, 4 May 2017 (MDT)

I understand your concerns, but in this case I'm not so sure. Many metamagic effects themselves are VH, and so are most of the abusable spells. I don't see this feat by itself warrant a VH. --Sulacu (talk) 07:22, 4 May 2017 (MDT)

That's a strong case for unquaunt, which I'd also be a proponent of, since this feat in and of itself and by itself does nothing on its own. --Ghostwheel (talk) 07:39, 4 May 2017 (MDT)

Alright, that's fine by me. --Sulacu (talk) 07:40, 4 May 2017 (MDT)

I can see it being VH; I don't understand why it'd be Unquantifiable, however. It's not unlike Channeled spells like Channeled Pyroburst, or Rystil's Lightning Lance. Honestly, IMO, this should be a built-in effect for Sorcerer and other spontaneous casters. Truthfully with how few spells known most spont casters get, you'd really think they'd be natural masters of metamagic, able to tweak their spells more easily. Hence why I have made things like this, this and this. I think this is a useful feat, though not necessarily an overly powerful one. It's certainly not as powerful as this demon.

There are always the usual nerfs (Like it only affects spells you know that are X number of spell levels lower than the highest), as well as possibly making it add a round to the casting time rather than extending it to a round. I'd also note that it can't be combined with the Quicken or Rapid spells metamagic feats. Not to mention you could make the prereq "Able to spontaneously cast 3rd-level spells, or prepare 4th-level spells" since it's likely going to be more powerful in the hands of prepared casters than spont casters.

Also, the feat's name is listed as "Sulacu [Metamagic]" on the page, so you might wanna fix that. :P Zhenra-Khal (talk) 09:28, 5 May 2017 (MDT)

Glad to see you think it is a useful effect. Balancing aside, I will add notes about incompatibility with quicken spell. I don't see the need to mention Rapid spell since that and this feat simply negate one another. I mean, you can use it together, but why would you want to? I suppose this feat could effectively make a metamagic rod of rapid spell into an all-purpose 1 spell level metamagic rod if you use this feat to boost a spell and then use the rod of rapid spell to negate the 1-round casting time, but that in my eyes is an acceptable (and clever) use of an item.

As for the wizard vs sorcerer matter, I'm considering waiving the level requirement for spontaneous spellcasters completely. I could even see giving it to spontaneous casters as a Spellcraft based skill trick instead. They standardly need a full-round action to cast metamagic spells to begin with. In terms of action economy, there is little difference between that and this feat, apart from in which round the spell takes effect.

I'll think on this some more before I change it. --Sulacu (talk) 16:26, 5 May 2017 (MDT)