Talk:HellFire Destroyer (3.5e Prestige Class)

Ratings

Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

No clear balance point whatsoever. Abilites range from a +str bullshit bonus to initiative, AC, and saving throws (Froged By Brimstone) to a flat-out nerf to anyone who isn't a wizard (everburning aura). Many abilities lack duration, range, and/or effective spell level. Many abilities do not specify what action it takes to trigger them. Inner combustion and Thermal vision don't have any mechanics associated with them.

DanielDraco opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

I was going to let this article pass by unmolested for now, because you're a new user and I didn't want to discourage you. But then I saw that you set the status as "up for review" -- so, good, you're looking for feedback. That's always a good sign. To be blunt, this isn't good. But if you're just starting, that's natural. And that's what these reviews are for -- to tell you what's wrong so you can learn what not to do. So here's a list to start with. Firstly, some nitpicky details: You refer to the class as a Pyromancer in a few places. Might want to fix that. Your gender references are inconsistent. Your prereqs don't gel to the same level -- you require 7 levels of a spellcasting class, and 5 levels of Knowledge (Arcana). That's not a problem per se, but it's a little weird. Your capitalization is weird. CamelCase is generally not considered a good stylistic choice outside of code, and you've got some flat-out incorrect capitalizations (e.g., "high temperature air Blast," "one Standard action," "the dc of swim and Jump checks,"). In at least one place, you refer to adding Strength instead of Strength modifier to a roll -- an important distinction, even if people can guess what you meant. You blend a lot of American English spellings with British English spellings. Stuff that Actually Matters: Grammar in general. A single grammar mistake doesn't matter so much, but there are pervasive problems here. Full saves, full BAB, and full casting is generally a big big no-no, even at VH. You use a lot of metric measures. D&D, however, uses the U.S. system. 9 meters is not a meaningful measure of distance, 100 kg is not a meaningful measure of matter, etc. Heat Blast does not explain what it actually does. It throws enemies away...but what direction is "away"? How far does it throw them? Are they just pushed, or also knocked prone? Does it target one foe, or everyone in range? Can he specify targets, or is it an uncontrollable area effect? Heat Blast's DC doesn't scale the way save DCs are meant to. The basic guideline is 10 + 1/2 character level + an ability modifier. Anything close to that can work, but there's little reason to not just use that. Hellish Smelter is also vague. You might want to look at spells like transmute rock to mud for guidance on what needs to specified there. Holy hell is Everburning Aura overpowered. He can cast an 8th level spell for 2 Con damage and 8 HP? What if he's undead? What if he's got a wand of lesser restoration? Hell, what if he doesn't have either of those things? It's still really fucking strong when he's just soaking up that damage. It isn't clear how Everburning Aura interacts with prepared casters. Magmatic Armour sucks. He takes damage every round just for a 6.5 average armor bonus? And by the way, when is that 1d12 rolled? Upon casting? Every time his AC is checked? Once per round? Spontaneous Combustion doesn't give any effects of being on fire. An ability that takes 3 rounds to use is an ability that is just never going to be used in combat. Especially when it deals so little damage, which scales so weirdly with character level. Gift of the Blessed Fire is a downgrade. He was already immune to fire, and now you've given him vulnerability. Several abilities are SLAs, but give no spell level. And yes, that does matter. Spontaneous Burst is really really weak for how late it's coming. Thermal Vision is actually pretty cool. Thought you might appreciate one note of praise among this criticism. I have no idea what Incandescent Rain does.

Foxwarrior dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

Well, you need to put some sort of limit on Spontaneous Combustion. Saying that something works like Transmute Rock to Lava and then putting a contradiction in later in the sentence which you phrase like a clarification is confusing. Forged by Brimstone reminds me of the hateful Hybrid Elite Warrior, but it's marginally better in this because the arcane caster is unlikely to be totally Strength focused. Spontaneous Burst needs an area. Most of your damage values would be laughable even at High balance. I actually like this magma theme, though.

Hello, I' ve read the review, it's the first time I create a prestige class, I appreciate the constructive criticism and I am going to fix as many mistakes as possible and as soon as I can --Dragher (talk) 13:35, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I've fixed EverBurning Aura which now deals 1 constitution damage per spell level, tried to simplify Incandescent Rain, empowered Volcanic Blow, decreased the Bab and save throws values, specified that Heat Blast knocks down enemies, specified the effect of Hellish Smelter and some other minor things (gift of the belessed fire make the HellFire Destroyer Lose his vulnerability, therefore it's an upgrade). Other fixes will come eventually later this week.Sorry about using the metric system and for the grammar mistakes, I am italian. --Dragher (talk) 14:16, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll take a look at the changes later and see if I have anything to say about them. This isn't bad for a first try, by the way -- you should have seen my first class :P

For the grammar, just do your best. When you get to a relatively final version of the class, you can ask someone to go through and clean up the grammar -- I'd be happy to do it myself. As for the measurements, I can understand how it might be difficult to work within the U.S. system, but it's unfortunately necessary; the game works in 5-foot squares and measures weights in pounds (or at least the English edition does), and a class needs to use those measures to fit properly into the game. --DanielDraco (talk) 15:13, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Make Everburning Aura do Constitution Burn and only function if the character can have their Constitution burned (or something similarly unavoidable), and I'll re-review. --Foxwarrior (talk) 18:14, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

I did my best to fix all the major issues marked by Draco, I've also converted all the measures previously calculated with the metric system and changed any "pyromancer" reference to HellFire Destroyer. I've further downpowered EverBurning Aura, which is now unlocked later and deals way more constitution damage and improved the description of the other abilities. --Dragher (talk) 16:53, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Here are the problems with Everburning Aura:

• Undead and constructs have no Con score. They are immune to Con damage, and may cast extra spells all day without penalty. Similarly, wizards in an iron body are just flat immune to ability score damage (they have other drawbacks, but it's still free spells).
• Creatures with Con scores just take some damage. Restoration makes this go away before it would normally heal, allowing them to cast more. And if you don't want to use that spell, you can get lesser restoration in wand form and just spend a couple of charges instead.
• Even if you suffer the damage and don't do anything to repair or mitigate it, it comes back at a fairly quick rate. You can cast a bonus 9th level spell every 90 minutes, assuming you had something to help with the relatively small hit point damage. And while that probably wouldn't help you in a dungeon crawl (not more than once anyway), it's a huge increase in the amount of spells you can throw around per day and would help you when you were doing anything not time constrained.

The solution to these problems, assuming you even agree that they are problematic, is what Foxwarrior suggested above - Ability Burn instead of Ability Damage (including the normal recovery period for said burn) and a requirement that you have to actually suffer the burn for the bonus spell to happen. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:47, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Great tip, I've fixed that specifying that constituion burn damage taken by EverBurning Area cannot be healed by spells such as Restoration or in any other way than rest. --Dragher (talk) 18:29, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Is there any chance for this article to get a better mark after all the fixes I've made so far? --Dragher (talk) 19:49, 6 November 2012 (UTC)