SRD talk:Create Undead

So, I never realized this before but create undead does not seem like a more powerful form of animate dead like it says. lets compare them

spell	animate dead	create undead	winner
level	4 (3 for clerics)	6	animate
components	V, S, M (25gp/HD)	V, S, M (50gp/HD)	animate
casting time	1 standard	1 hour (must be at night)	animate
range	touch	close	create
target(s)	1 or more corpses	1 corpse	animate
controlled?	yes, upto 4HD/CL	no, but you can cast a spell to control them as they are created	animate
undead	skeletons and zombies (max of 20HD each) templated undead	ghouls(2-3HD at CL 11), ghasts (4-8HD at CL 12), mummies (8-24 HD at CL 15), Mohrgs (14-28 HD at CL 18), but no rules on how to create them with more HD than base	?

advanced undead=+1CR/+4HD at 50gp/HD that's +200gp for +1CR

undead advantages//disadvantages

• zombies: retain flight, lotsa hp, dr/slash // limited actions, doubled HD, 20HD limit(10HD of base creature), no feats and mindless

• skeletons: immune to cold, dr/bludgeon // lose nonmagical flight, 20HD limit, no feats and mindless

• ghouls: paralysis on claws, ghoul fever spawning on bite // maxHD=3 and CR of 1, turn resistance +2

• ghasts: paralysis on claws, ghoul fever spawning on bite, stench // TR+2, HD and CR range from 4HD and CR 3 to 8HD and CR 4

• mummies: mummyrot on slam, mummy lords are possible (+cleric levels), despair, dr/- // +50% more damage from fire, HD and CR range from 8HD and CR 5 to 24HD (large size) and CR 10

• mohrgs: Improved grab, paralyzing touch, create spawn // HD and CR range from 14HD and CR 8 to 28HD (large size) and CR 12

so from this ghouls and ghasts suck, at level 11 and 12 you can get much more mileage from skells (cost 1/2 as much onyx), mummies are nice but if you can create mummy lords are the winners, though a CR 5 base is not worth CL 15, morgs are essentially super zombies when advanced, mostly because they get their own free zombie army. Zombies suck. skeletons suck less and are interesting with lord of the uttercold as easily healed infantry.

is create undead stronger than animate dead? yes but is it worth it? probably not

fixes for create undead: make casting time and targeting the same as animate dead, probably reduce onyx to the same as animate dead as well.

i'd love to hear other opinions on this Grog toad (talk) 15:48, 4 March 2019 (MST)