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→Ratings Still Valid?
:Since ThunderGod Cid's rating was entered well after versatile advancement was added, it is very probably valid. You appear to be both overestimating verstile advancement and underestimating the difficulty of meeting the prerequisites. I am certainly happy to tone down versatile advancement, or even take it back out, if that seems to be the consensus of the discussion. --[[User:Ideasmith|Ideasmith]] 21:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
::Okay. Let's take a look at versatile advancement. A monk can take a level in JoAT after 8th. Sure, that's nice, whatever. What really splodes to me is, say, Bard 1/Cleric 1/Druid 1/Ranger 1/Rogue 1. Cleric, Druid, and Ranger each give +2 Fort; Bard, Ranger, and Rogue each give +2 Ref; Bard, Cleric, and Druid each give +2 Will. That's entry after level 5, and mayhaps one with the time could figure it out how to fit monk in there to make it lvl 4. Anyways. So what does this mean? A Brd1/Clr1/Drd1/Rgr1/Rog1/JoAT10 would have the class abilities of Brd11/Clr11/Drd11/Rgr11/Rog11, plus a pile (let me be precise: tentwelve) of extra feats and a large haul of cantrips. So what does the party Cleric have over this character? Taking Clr15 vs. Clr11, yeah, the lvl 15 character's going to be better in a lot of respects. one or two more 1st through 6th spells, access to 7th and 8th level spells, and better turning. But then consider what the trade gives. Base saves are only 9/5/9 (for Clr15, compared to 13/13/13 for JoAT), and, oh, dang, you get a pile of Druid spells and two smaller but nice piles of Bard and Ranger spells, Bardic music, Wild Shape, a ''16th'' level animal companion, 6d6 sneak attack, and so on (LOTS more). The only other thing you're missing is some BAB. Do this analysis comparing this build with any mixture of the core classes used above. So tell me: is that a fair trade?--[[User:Quey|Quey]] 06:49, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::Higher level spells are really neat. Your mishmash might be stronger in a stand-up fight, but the Cleric 15 has two whole levels of new tricks to make that not happen. --[[User:Foxwarrior|Foxwarrior]] 06:56, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: Potentially even worse--crazy MAD. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] 06:59, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::I dunno. Even ignoring other factors, taking away two levels of spells for godly saving throws and 12 (I missed that the first time around) extra feats don't sit well. And this is just one aspect of versatile advancement. There's also that 8th level monk. If a monk did go JoAT after 8th, it continues to be a monk, just with bonus feats and nice(r) saves with spells tacked on. I'm sure a monk could deal with newfound mage armor and enlarge person.--[[User:Quey|Quey]] 07:11, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
