Talk:Draconic Hellkite (3.5e Template)

+bullshit bonuses

What sort of bonus type is the bonus to Saves, Natural Armor Bonus, Breath Weapon DC, Frightful Presence DC?Fluffykittens (talk) 10:15, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

That a good question, but I don't think it particularly relevant. Most templates don't specify either. Also there no bonus type for DCs. --Leziad (talk) 10:39, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Also why I think it not particularly relevant: It a monster only template, giving a bonus type to everything (especially the 'harmless' bonuses) simply complicate thing for the DM. --Leziad (talk) 10:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

It would be better just to give them Ability Focus: Frightful Presence and Ability Focus: Breath Weapon so that players aren't required to make insane will saves vs frightful presence and insane reflex saves vs breath weapon. Since the template already gives a bonus to WIS CON DEX, I don't see the point of dropping a huge +bullshit bonus to saving throws on top of that. "bretah weapon" Bretahiamhit! (you probably won't get that)"A draconic hellkite received scaling bonuses" Nice to know they were but are no longer receiving scaling bonuses. Fluffykittens (talk) 11:12, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

English is not my first language. As for the massive scaling, I need to do math but CR +4 is a big deal. According to the DMG it goes from expend 25% of daily resources to overwhelming encounter, which is very sensitive when number crunching. --Leziad (talk) 11:21, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I did number crunching, my numbers appear to be right. The loss of spellcasting hit much harder than it look, my test subject was a red dragon (tested for CR 24: Old Red Dragon Hellkite vs Red Wyrm). The hellkite breath and frightful presence are about equal to a GW, however it spellcasting was extremely nerfed (caster level 9th vs 17th for the wyrm). The breath weapon while spammable is weaker (22d10 vs 16d10). Overall I will need to do some tunning, but the +bullshit bonuses appear to be right. Which I admit surprise even me. --Leziad (talk) 11:31, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Saves are kinda too high however, may need tunning (altough a proper dragon buff correctly...) so much pondering. --Leziad (talk) 11:32, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

The template is too weak to be CR +4, comparison made with red dragons show that the older nontemplated version is far more challenging. I will need to add a scaling bonus to attack roll. The loss of HD is often too great to properly compensate. Probably a few abilities will be added, a buff to breath weapon possibly... --Leziad (talk) 11:51, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Hit points don't even match at all, again the lower dragon win by an outstanding majority. I think I will remake this template for CR +2. (edit: I might not have to do that, I will review the template deeply tomorrow) --Leziad (talk) 12:11, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Minor Fixes

Here again stating that i fixed a good amount of grammar/spelling fixes. Just came by the discussion page here to find the ESL part, so i understand some of your mess ups (although english is my first language)

This will be my last correction for now, but you can contact me on my page (which is relatively empty at the time of this post) if you would like for me to do more edits - Kylem2013 (talk) 15:36, 9 March 2014 (UTC)