Talk:Tome Magic Items (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

Sunwitch favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!

There are a lot of things that could still be worked out on this system, but overall it does a lot to make sense of the economy in a D&D setting while making for thematic play at higher levels. Characters who would be high-level in D&D rarely have "gold" as a real concern, with currencies more resembling divine energies of creation, souls or concepts. The wish economy represents that, and while it's kind of an unfinished system it at least provides a good structure for things.

	Paleomancer favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	This greatly alleviates the rather bizarre nature of magic items in normal D&D, and how characters may use them. In conjunction with rules that treat magic items as enhancements and tools, this rule really shines in play.

ToP Box

Were you basically happy with the sidebar or did you want me to go through and put stuff in here (like the edit summary suggests)? If so, what stuff? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I'm mostly happy with the sidebar. There was just one issue that came up though, in the translation between Use Magic Device and ToP skills. By default, when you activate a spell trigger (staff/scroll) item with a UMD-replacement check, the caster level and DC sit at the absolute minimum it would require to cast the spell. It would be nice if, using the check, there was some way to improve that -- to your own character level (or ranks in skill - 3) for caster level, and your own ability score for DC. Surgo 17:58, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

That's the default in both systems - there is no CL boost in UMD unless you consider that a "class feature" that you can emulate with a DC 20 check. So just write in Ranks - 3 for your CL when you trigger an item. Since you're creating scaling items here that aren't in the base system, it makes sense to adjust ToP in the same way when these rules are used. So include it in the sidebar as well. I would probably rewrite the UMD DCs while you were at it (15 + 2x spell level, for everything, forever), to make the skill less binary and less auto-win for high level items. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 22:26, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

I made it a bonus you got for beating the DC by five. Surgo 00:02, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Item Stuff

If you're looking for more examples, could do Necklace of Fireballs as a non-standard potion. Do continuous use items of a long lasting personal spell, like an Amulet of Proof Against Detection, have a place here anymore or should they be converted to a wand style thing?

What's with the "make a check to boost your CL to equal your CR with this item" clause for wands and staves? There's no corresponding clause in the scroll section. It's also somewhat weird with UMD since there is no "emulate higher CL" thing in there other than the flat DC 20 emulate class feature, which would be bad to key it off of. It might be better to scale with spell level in some way and just have items use your CR as the CL all the time. It's a minor DC change for the skill, but those DCs are retarded in the first place and minor Tome skill adjustments like that have precedence. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:45, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

See the above heading for comments on the CL / DC -- it's the one problem I would like to resolve. As for stuff like Amulet of Proof against Detection or anything else that's basically permanent, that's the sort of thing that would need to be converted to a minor/moderate/major quality. I suppose some guidelines can be given to do that sort of thing (if you have something in mind right away, feel free to edit it in). Surgo 18:00, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Skill Items

What happened to them? Conscious removal, oversight, something else? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:37, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Oversight I think. Surgo 00:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

In case you wanted to do a ToP compliant item bonus thingy, here's a modified version of what I put down for them on TGD a while back:

• Basic bonus items grant you level appropriate ranks (level +3), and skill abilities up to rank 4.
• Minor items grant you level appropriate ranks (level +3), and skill abilities up to rank 8.
• Moderate items grant you level appropriate ranks (level +3), and skill abilities up to rank 12.
• Greater items grant you level appropriate ranks (level +3), and skill abilities up to any rank.

This is mostly off the top of my head though, and may need some spot checking to make sure it isn't dumb. Should be something to start from though. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 01:00, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Other ToP skill things to maybe quality-ize can be found here if you're interested. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 01:06, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Item Crafting Feats

It didn't say whether you need Item Crafting Feats or not to make magical items. Is this still a requirement? Paleomancer (talk) 22:30, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I would allow Wizards and anyone else with an appropriate class feature (like Tome Fighters) to make magic items, no feat required. Surgo (talk) 03:27, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Spell Arrow

"A traditional post-wish archer will have a quiver full of different magical arrows" That he can't use because of this "Hitting a specific target with a Spell Arrow is a ranged touch attack, which uses the enhancement bonus from your bow. All other rules, including the use of Use Magic Device checks, are identical to that of scrolls."

So, was it intentional to make the people most likely to be focused on using bows, the Fighter and, more likely, the Ranger unable to effectively use spell arrows, or was that just an oversight?

It is something of an issue -- the UMD check rules were added at a later time. Not entirely sure how to resolve this conflict. Surgo (talk) 21:03, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Use the potion rules, but for non-personal spells with actual range. Standard action, no UMD, item must be fired, item is consumed, and using the item is otherwise treated as a normal casting of the spell. You'd drop the ranged touch attack in the process, as the item would just turn into a lightning bolt or or a fireball bead or a hold person thing or whatever when it was fired / thrown / hurled / whatever. The form of the item is mostly a "you don't have to drop your weapon to trigger this" convenience thing at that point, and you can use the same rules for spell throwing daggers, spell shuriken, spell blow darts, whatever. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 21:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

There is a problem here...upon rereading and thinking about it, the UMD part is intentional (otherwise they are just completely better than scrolls all the time). However, it would be really nice to have Rangers using Spell Arrows. With ToP that's not a problem, but without it even Cid's Tome Ranger (rightfully) does not get UMD. Surgo (talk) 02:13, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Potions are completely better than scrolls all the time as well, at least within their limited area (personal use, level 1-3, etc.). They just have a limit to the number of effects that you can stack. So if they're fine as a minor item (and you could do level 4+ potions as a medium item type perhaps), then a similar use limited potion-like model for spell arrows might work without UMD. Perhaps each spell arrow counts against your 1/2 level worth of concurrent potions for 1 minute? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:41, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Hey, Surgo... bump or something. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:29, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Sourcebook?

I think this work better in the sourcebooks category, as it effectively replaces the unfinished Book of Gears. You could make this it's own sourcebook or replace the magic item rules in that book with this. --Dragonexx (talk) 01:04, 10 March 2014 (UTC)