SRD talk:Saving Throw

As a DM, I go by the rule of Area of Effects that don't make any sense to not get a save from, don't get a save. Example- If you're standing right next to the detonation point of a Fireball, you get no save, because there is -no possible way- for someone without terrifyingly high reflex to dodge that. Lightning Bolt, however, does not follow this rule because it is only 1 square wide and there's an ability to actually dodge that. Arguably, it's impossible to have reflexes faster than lightning, but this is magical lightning, otherwise it wouldn't hit anything because it would be impossible to aim, and I'm getting off on a tangent.

Thoughts?

So you make Fireball have a touch attack, ala Meteor Swarm? Makes Fireball stronger. Didn't really need the power boost. In any case, I do not advise this path of thinking, as it leads down the road of trying too hard to make things make "sense" (like you said, it's magic... which is why you can dodge that lightning and in turn, dodge that fireball). Though, one thing you may be mistaking (and a common mistake) is that reflex = jumping out of the way. While this is most common, reflex is simply getting your defenses up in time. A flourish of the cloak, shielding yourself from burning flame... touching weapon to ground and channeling the lightning bolt harmlessly into the earth... a sudden duck and cover, rolling to smother flames before they deal damage.... this is what reflex covers. If you are having trouble imagining dodging a fireball, perhaps consider shielding yourself from it with your lighting quick reflexes. -- Eiji Hyrule 05:51, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

Y'know, if someone had a shield, I'd allow a reflex save, because shields are useful in blocking fire, and can be used very quickly. But cloaks? Cloaks would do more harm than good because, generally, they're flammable, and if yours isn't, it's either enchanted to resist flame, or is so heavy you're getting reflex penalties because it's made from metal or thick leather.

Channeling lightning through a weapon makes little to no sense, either. If we follow that logic, and even realistically it makes no sense, then everyone auto-saves against lightning if they have metal on their armor, because the metal armor will be touching together all the way to the boots.

Duck and cover would take too long unless you saw the spell coming from far away.

Maybe I'm using too much realism in the game, but the game is not nearly so enjoyable if it is so obviously a game.

(Before I begin, sign your posts... it's four of these guys "~" at the end of your post.)

You're thinking a bonfire, fireball isn't continuous. It's more akin to having hydrogen blow up in your face, very brief. To catch on fire, you need something to be exposed to heat long enough for the heat to be transfered. If you need to imagine what I mean, ever swipe your hand through a candle's flame? Your finger didn't burn off, did it. Now hold it there for a few seconds. After you get out of the hospital, you'll see the time does make a difference. X3 But seriously, unless the cloak is covered in oil, its not catching flame. By that logic, every time someone is hit by a fireball, they ignite. That doesn't happen, in fact it takes a very specific effect (a fire elemental's Burn, a spell specifically for it like Combust) to achieve ignition.

The same goes for metal incidentally, even though metal heats up a LOT faster than nonmmetals (making cloaks, ironically, better at resisting heat). A brief flash of boomfire won't do it. You have an arguement for continuous flame, but that's about it. Also, D&D assumes, unless you're flatfooted, you are omnipresently aware of all things around you, so duck and cover is perfectly reasonable, especially in the world of 50 mph lightning.

The grounding thing was just an example, but the example has one thing that an armored gy doesn't have. Armor touches your skin. Your sword doesn't, thanks to the handle. Those things are typically a nonconductive nonmetal, for the grip. Anyway, by and large, that's the fluff, you would only worry about the fluff matching the crunch, and that just takes some creativity on how you just achieved the amazing feat of X Y and Z. -- Eiji Hyrule 06:16, April 4, 2010 (UTC)

76.105.119.56 06:25, April 4, 2010 (UTC) False analogy, I think. A fireball isn't a puff of flame, or it would do next to no damage. And cloth objects exposed to any serious fire is going to ignite, but that makes Fire spells so very broken that I understand not enforcing it. And metal heats up faster, yes, but that is heat, and fire, while hot, is not heat. And armor will have clothing underneath it, or it'll rub your skin bloody. Preventing skin contact. Point on the weapon, though the metal beneath the grip negates some of the shielding, I believe.