User:ThunderGod Cid/Templar Vows

Vows in Progress

Blank Vow

“

Related vow quote goes here...

”

• First:
• Second:
• Third:

Related Avenger Styles: <removed if there are none>

Roleplaying Ideas:

Vow of Modernity

“

Progress demands sacrifice.

”

• First: You are fitted with futuristic goodies, the result making you part mortal and part...something else. Replace one of your limbs with a cybernetic or similarly avant-garde prosthetic:

Arm: Choose an element and gain the ability to unleash an elemental damage AoE effect (1d6 per level in line or cone)

Eye:

Heart: Auto-defibrillator to automatically stabilize you and give you fast healing

Leg: Swift action movement

• Second: You may choose another prosthetic or gain a second benefit for your previously existing choice.

Arm: Add chosen elemental damage to a standard action melee attack.

Eye:

Heart: Regenerate lost limbs.

Leg: Air walk

• Third:

Roleplaying Ideas: You are the harbinger for technological and social advancement in the world. Guns, alchemical items, and the like are your weapons of choice, used to combat any primitives who oppose conversion. It doesn't have to sound so sinister or imperialistic, but you get the point.

Vow of Silence

“

Silence is the sleep that nourishes wisdom.

”

• First: As a standard action, you make make a melee attack against a creature that forces the target to make a Fortitude save or be rendered silent (as though in the effect of a silence spell for one round per two class levels. Whilst under this effect, attempting to communicate verbally or use any supernatural ability, spell-like ability, or spell with a verbal component refreshes the duration of the silence.
• Second: You harshly punish creatures that cannot abide by the standards you have set for them. If a creature has of their own volition refreshed the silence effect you placed on them as a result of the abilities granted by this vow, your melee attacks smite them down with holy fury, dealing 1d6 points of extra damage per level. This additional damage is considered divine in nature and is not subject to damage reduction.
• Third:

Roleplaying Ideas: As a means of showing your faith to your deity and fellow converts or sharpening your personal discipline, you have chosen to not speak. Whether or not you go so far as to cut out your tongue is up to you. You are not barred from communication, merely the verbal variety. Great for stoics and strong and (in this case, literally) silent types.

Vow of Revenge

“

You killed my father. Prepare to die!

”

• First: You gain a +2 bonus to melee attack rolls against targets that have attempted attacks on you in the previous round, and deal bonus damage on your melee attacks equal to one quarter of any damage they dealt to you.
• Second: Once per day, you may declare a hunt, naming a viable target and replicating the effects of a vision spell.
• Third: When you declare a hunt, you also gain the effects of discern location.

Roleplaying Ideas: This one is open to cliche, pretty self-explanatory, and also possibly finite. Since violence tends to beget violence, however, it's likely that someone who takes this vow will find another object of their ire. Perhaps you seek a specific target, or just anyone who has wronged you or your faith; whoever itt is, it's your job to ensure that retaliation is swift and final.

Vow of Surveillance

“

I watch the watchers. And everyone else.

”

• First:
• Second: Detect thoughts as an SLA at-will.
• Third: Probe thoughts as an SLA at-will.

Roleplaying Ideas:

Vow of Balance

“

The world was created with good and evil, and cannot continue without both forces in play. Thus the balance between them must never sway too far in one direction.

”

• First: Gain bonuses against creatures based on how greatly their alignment differs from true neutral (alignment is admittedly a bad system, but we may be able to work with it)
• Second:
• Third:

Roleplaying Ideas: Whenever one side in the battle between good and evil gets the upper hand, you turn your sword against it to make sure equality is preserved in the long term. This may cause you to come off as mercenary and wavering in allegiance, but only to those not privy to the end goal.

Proposed Style Changes

When I was looking at charger for Surgo's requested build, it seems a bit off. So here's some proposed changes in standard errata format.

Charger

A charger is a very straightforward templar. They see their foes, and they run or ride out to meet them. This generally leads to the defeat of their foes.

1. Knight Errant (Ex): A charger needs to reach his foes in order to strike them down. work around the limitations of the bulky armor that is so often part of his attire. You no longer suffer penalties to your base speed from wearing medium or heavy armor.(move into a vow?) You may charge up to three times your normal base speed when you make a charge as a full-round action. If you would only be limited to a partial charge, you may move twice your base speed as part of that action. You may make 1 turn up to 90 degrees as part of your charge action, though you must still travel at least 10 feet in a straight line immediately before you attack a target. Additionally, you are not required to move to the closest space to your opponent during a charge, and may make your charge attack when your opponent is in any of your threatened spaces. This would allow you to take a charge attack while running past an opponent, but this movement would provoke attacks of opportunity as normal.
2. Cataphract (Ex): When charging you gain a +4 bonus to your attack roll instead of the normal +2 and you(we can add bonus damage if we want, but bonus attack seems unnecessary on a full BAB class) may make a full attack. If you destroy an effect in your path, render a charged opponent unconscious or dead, or otherwise clear the way forward while charging you may continue the charge along the same path (following all normal restrictions as they apply) up to your full allowed distance. You may make additional attacks against those in your way along this additional distance as if they were your intended charge target. You also may charge up to three times your normal base speed when you make a charge as a full-round action. If you would only be limited to a partial charge, you may move twice your base speed as part of that action.(moved to 1) You may not make a full-attack when you perform a partial charge. This benefit also applies while you are mounted.
3. Charge of Necessity (Su): While charging or running, you gain the benefit or air walk for the round, until the start of your next turn. If you do not continue running or charging at the start of the next round, you instead fall to the ground under the effect of feather fall. If you begin a fall from other circumstances you do not benefit from this effect. This benefit also applies while you are mounted.
4. Charge of Destruction (Ex): In addition to charging foes, you can also charge barriers and zones of magic. If you make an attack against a physical object or barrier and your attack roll is greater than it's AC + it's hardness, a 10' cube of it is lost as if it had been disintegrated. If you make an attack roll against a magic effect in a space, your attack duplicates the effect of a targeted greater dispel magic, and your dispel check is equal to your attack roll. You can trample over those who fall before your charge, continuing to seek more blood. If you destroy an effect in your path, render a charged opponent unconscious or dead, or otherwise clear the way forward while charging you may continue the charge along the same path (following all normal restrictions as they apply) up to your full allowed distance. You may make additional attacks against those in your way along this additional distance as if they were your intended charge target.(moved to 2) This benefit also applies while you are mounted.
5. Charge of Glory (Su): When you kill a foe with an attack while charging, they are destroyed utterly as if they had been immolated or disintegrated. Further, while charging or running you may leave behind a blade barrier as you leaves each space. The wall need not be continuous, and may have as many or as few breaks in it as you desire. This wall deals 15d6 points of damage, has a save DC of 16 + the templar's Charisma modifer, and dissipates at the start of your next turn. This benefit also applies while you are mounted.

I'm not sure if the destroy stuff steps on feat toes, but whatever for now. Thoughts? I may do the others in a bit too. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 05:33, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

I strongly approve, especially for the magic destruction although I have concerns that it might be treading on the Tome Samurai. That said, dispelling is not only limited to the samurai, so I may just feel that it's very common because of how liberally it was used in the Liber Demonica, which is not a reason to scratch it from this.

I am also OK with moving the removal of armor speed penalties to a vow, although I have perused the current vows and not found too many that we could affix it to (the foremost candidate is Diligence, but it already has a pretty good first benefit. So the solution seems to be the creation of a new vow. Vow of Fitness? Could have other encumbrance-related things in addition to the armor and basically put the templar up to the pinnacle of physical conditioning. - TG Cid (talk) 21:02, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Diligence actually needs a different benefit at 1 or we need to remove no sleep from Sustained by Faith (I'm not sure which I prefer at the moment), as it kind of gets overwritten right now :-/. I'd be fine with dropping that in there at once vowed instead of the no sleep thing, moving the no sleep up to twice vowed, and dropping no sleep from sustained. And then maybe a rename to Vow of Perseverence? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 21:25, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Your diligence change wasn't quite what I had in mind, but I like it better that way anyway so huzzah!

As for the samurai, I've just double checked their ability and when they get it. Theirs is more flexible and can target a lot more effects, doesn't get treated like a dispel check (and is arguably a lot easier to activate), but requires them to be in the same square as the effect. They also get it 2 levels before the templar would (or 1 level if we shift around vow and style progressions). Their physical object removal blade of devastation is also easier to activate, works on force effects (which this maybe should too), and clears out cover (which this probably would too, but it's a separate attack roll as written). They get a much easier to trigger set of effects, get them earlier, and can use them outside of charges but can't chain them together. I don't think there's a lot of toe stepping going on here, though there are obvious similarities. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 23:35, 23 September 2014 (UTC)

Yay for doing things differently and inadvertently better than planned! - TG Cid (talk) 16:38, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

Hoplite

Templars who follow the hoplite path are those who feel that a combination of offense and defense is often the most appropriate one to bring against your foes, and practice a unique style utilizing reach weapons and shields. These templars can wait behind the protection of their shield, and then lash out to strike with an unexpectedly strong blow.

1. Vanguard (Ex): So long as you wield a small or larger shield in your off hand, you may wield a two-handed reach weaponspear in one hand. When you do so, you still deal damage with the spear as though it was wielded in two hands. Additionally, you may set any rigid bodied reach weapon against a charge as an immediate action to deal double damage, even if the weapon could not normally be set in such a way.
2. Shifting Strikes (Ex): You pour your passion and devotion into your strikes, and your foes can tell. While wielding a shield in your off hand, you may add your Charisma modifier to your damage rolls. If you wield a tower shield, you may also add your Charisma modifier to your attack rolls.(removed) Additionally, you may set your spear against a charge as an immediate action(moved to 1) While wielding a two-handed reach weapon and a small or larger shield, you threaten adjacent spaces and may attack adjacent enemies as if you were not wielding a reach weapon.
3. Warding Thrust (Su): Your spear thrusts are so strong that you need not even strike a foe with the tip to pierce them. This increases the area you threaten while wielding a spear by 5', and movement through this expanded area provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If your wielded spear is a reach weapon, this ability does not allow you to attack adjacent targets though you can strike even farther away. (replaced by adjacent striking at 2) While wielding a two-handed reach weapon and a small or larger shield in your off hand, you can strike at any target within Close range (25 ft, +5 feet per 2 class levels) as a standard action. This strike deals damage as normal, and also forces the target to make a reflex save, DC 10 + half templar level + Cha mod. If they fail the save they are moved back a distance equal to twice the damage dealt, rounded down to the nearest 5' increment, and land prone in the square. If they are unable to move the full distance, they suffer 1d6 points of damage per square they could not move.
4. Resounding Thrust (Su): You spear strikes hurl back the targets you hit. Targets are moved away from you a distance equal to the half the damage dealt (rounded down to the nearest 5 foot increment), with a minimum of 10 feet. If they can not move the full distance, they take 1d6 points of damage for every 2 squares they are unable to move. They land in their destination square prone. A successful reflex save negates the hurling effect. (upgraded and moved to 3, since that's 9th level and all) You may make warding thrusts as attack actions, rather than standard actions. You may also expand the warding thrust to all targets within a cone out to Close range as a standard action. You may exclude any creatures or objects from this effect.
5. Divine Thrust (Su): When you strike a foe with your warding strike, you may expand the effect to include all others in a 30' cone which expands away from you with your struck target in the middle. The creature hit by your strike suffers damage normally and makes their save against the effect as above. Other targets within this cone are entitled to a reflex save against the same DC. On a successful save they suffer only half the damage of your strike and are not moved. On a failed save they suffer the full damage of your strike and are hurled as above. (upgraded and moved to 4) You may make resounding thrusts as attack actions. (not sold on this benefit and could see something else, but this has likely similar levels of utility as the herald's standard action close range thing, so its here as a placeholder for now)

Yes, please. I was never really a fan of the adding Charisma to attack/damage (I suspect it was me who did that, although I cannot remember and it's irrelevant anyway, it just seems like something unoriginal I would have done). It's good to see it go away from stuff like that and more towards actually being able to use all of its attacks and CC people to death to fit our theme. Big reach plus no penalties to reach weapons plus knockbacks? Me gusta. Alas, at this late hour, I was only able to briefly look at it, so I will check back in later to make sure I don't have any issues (I am guessing I won't). - TG Cid (talk) 06:17, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I think I want a different 5 in here. The AoE strike deals damage as a normal weapon attack so it should probably also carry rider effects with it, and there are some really strong rider effects (death, negative levels, etc). We could just disallowed rider effects I guess, but I'd prefer to just aim for appropriate synergy I think. So, new options needed. It's written to force them to use a shield but there's no shield abilities in it, so something with the shield as a defensive thing seems pretty reasonable to fill in the gap. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:46, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I concur that since the defining characteristic of this style seems to be the shield, so defensive abilities related to the shield could be a primary focus when seeking additions:

Mirrored Defense (Su): When targeted with an adverse supernatural or spell-like effect, you may take an immediate action to negate the effect with your shield, after which your next successful melee attack becomes empowered and adds the absorbed effect to its normal effects.

Granted it's something of a far cry from the previous theme of the spears being emphasized and may not go well with the previous concerns about rider effects and such. If that becomes a big issue, it could be translated into bonus damage per level of the absorbed effect. And in keeping with the same idea, the templar could be able to block other melee attacks and add some of that damage back on to his melee strikes. It works with the defensive bit and adds some damage to his kit.

Another idea, basically what I was referring to above with the negating damage. Just one way to possibly implement it:

Hammer & Anvil (Ex): When wearing a shield, you gain Damage Reduction X/-, where X is equal to 2 plus one half your templar level. This DR supersedes any other forms of damage reduction you may have (could make it stack, but seemed iffy with next part). Blocking attacks in this fashion increases the strength of melee attacks on your next turn, causing them to deal additional damage equal to the amount negated by your DR. After each combat round, the amount of bonus damage granted by this ability resets to 0.

We can make this work by either move Shifting Strikes to Vanguard or add something else to it. Yes, reach without constraint is awesome and nice to have, but something else can be added here for such a core class feature.

Currently, I think allowing Resounding Thrust as an attack action seems a bit awkward. You can make four cone AoE attacks for big knockback, but other than forcing opponents to save multiple times or attacking four different cones I don't see a ton of additional usage in it. It's a vertical power boost that grants utility, sure, but we could probably get something else there (ie. the desired shield ability, whatever we end up using for it). - TG Cid (talk) 23:00, 30 September 2014 (UTC)

I'm pretty happy dropping the 5, as I said. So let's do that... in a second.

Some thoughts on synergy first - should we make warding thrust an attack action if used without range for 3rd? Even if we don't, warding thrust is eventually an attack action. Can you use an attack action in place of an AoO or a charge attack? If yes, then it's got pretty good synergy with the defender and charger styles. If no, should we write that exception in so that the synergies are more effective?

Hammer and anvil is interesting, but it sort of disincentivizes attacking you and that might not be what we want. Having the shield makes it harder to successfully hit you, and having the knockback makes it likely that they get fewer attacks to do so... so it seems like it would fit together nicely with an attack drawing ability. I may raid the Knight for a few ideas here, maybe just loot the challenge ability in some lesser form.

Mirrored defense is sort of like spell reflection as written, and I have mixed feelings about it. I think it would work better in defender though given their ability to block LoE through their defensive zone, particularly if we built shield having into that style (and that might be a good thing). I may see if I can fit it in there, and tweak the other benefits a bit. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Alternate plan - could do standard action destruction / repulsion for the 5. It fits the SLA style thing we have going with the other styles. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 03:00, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Giving it those SLAs is like the most boring thing ever please don't. Surgo (talk) 03:25, 1 October 2014 (UTC)