Talk:Adaptable Technique (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

Blocked Rating

Tarkisflux dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

This rating refers to a substantially different version of the article, or concerns mentioned in it have already been addressed.This is a somewhat expensive way to get a floating feat unless you have piles of bonus feats laying around... but if you have piles of bonus feats laying around you're probably invested in long feat chains to get something decent and a floating feat that could be something at the bottom of a different feat chain isn't all that helpful. The payoff just doesn't seem to be there for mid+ level thugs, and they can't afford to not invest in their actual feat chains until that time anyway. It's a much better investment for classes that don't have feat chains to deal with, like the full casters who can spend two feats to use whatever item creation / metamagic feat they feel like they need at the time. It's a pretty solid payoff for them actually, and I'd expect to see more of them get it than thugs. I'm pretty meh on this feat for those reasons, but the full-round action to swap is what pushes this down to a dislike. That sort of time investment in a fight makes it almost worthless to a thug, the group that it's supposed to be most useful for, even if it does provide them with table time to dumpster dive for a new feat option.

Two things; first, you're saying "it's not worth the slot" if I'm understanding correctly. Do you think then that it's too weak, and that dropping it a balance level would fix it? Or making it a standard/move/swift action to switch?

Second, take a look below. This let's the fighter grab Close Quarters Fighting if they're going up against a grapple, Improved Trip for a readied attack when facing someone with Spring Attack who they can't seem to lock down, Martial Study if they want to grab a maneuver that could be useful at that moment. And there are a lot more possibilities. I don't think you're considering quite all of them. --Ghostwheel (talk) 17:50, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm saying it's expensive and the payoff is crap for most martial types. I did not consider Martial Study to be honest, but the rest are low level concepts that just don't keep up when you get to higher levels and can better afford the cost of the feat. With the exception of martial study, you get to pick between something at the end of your feat chain and something at the beginning or low end of another chain, and that's a crap trade later on. It's less a problem with the feat and more a problem with feat chains in general and prereqs in particular. There are edge cases where it's ok, as I tried to get across above but maybe failed at.

But the full-round to break out any of those feats that you decide you need in a fight is a terrible time investment. You're already not winning the fight, and you need to spend a round doing nothing to break out an option that might help you win. I'd have to be pretty desperate or otherwise unable to do something sort of useful to want to sacrifice a round in this way. As I mentioned below, a lower time to swap for [Fighter] feats would help them quite a bit without helping people I don't think you want to help. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 18:13, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

	Aarnott likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	An interesting way to make a feat slot adaptable (2 feats = 1 changing feat). My only issue is that feats like this can slow the game down when players want to dumpster dive. This can be avoided by good DMing, of course.

WotC Equivalent

This is a bit weaker than taking two levels of Chameleon for their 'bonus feat'. Havvy 00:12, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

This is a bit stronger than taking two levels of Chameleon for their bonus feat, since you can change this one as a full-round action. Facing someone with spring attack? Pick up Thicket of Blades. Against grapples? Close-Quarters Fighting. Need some more AoOs? Combat Reflex. Need to get out of a net? Shadow Jaunt is your friend. Etc etc etc. All a full-round action away. --Ghostwheel 00:15, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Also, it doesn't require taking two levels of Chameleon. Surgo 00:52, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

When I wrote that, it said Once per day, not Twice. The history log seems to agree with me too (having me state that at 17:52 and the edit to twice a day occur at 18:something). Now it doesn't have a WOTC equivalent, and is stronger than taking the second level of Chameleon. Havvy 03:59, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

When you wrote that, it was still stronger than taking 2 levels in Chameleon :-P My above comment was when it was still 1/day. That said, this doesn't give you a bonus feat, but instead allows you to change around one of the feats you've already taken. --Ghostwheel 04:48, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Question(s)

How should it be handled if the feat chosen is a prerequisite to a feat the player wants to pick up later on?
Example, choose feats Power Attack and Adaptable Technique (AT). Later, the player takes the feat Cleave.
It would seem that AT is useless after this point since there isn't a way to reassign the feat that AT can manipulate. There seem to be two reasonable options. The first is to allow re-designation of which feat AT can manipulate, with much specification that only one feat can be changed at a time and also with a time-penalty so it doesn't occur in combat-time. The second is to allow all feats to be taken a second time, so the solution would be to take PA again, and use the permanent PA as the prereq for Cleave.
...????? Confusion expressed. --Maninorange (talk) 05:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Or just take Power Attack as a normal feat, and then make Adaptable Technique into Cleave for when you face many weak monsters, something that would actually be a good use of Adaptable Technique since you're adapting the feat to that situation. --Ghostwheel (talk) 09:06, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

But what if the player has already assigned Power Attack to be the feat referenced by Adaptable Technique? Or are you suggesting to take Power Attack again? --Maninorange (talk) 23:36, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Switch Power Attack into something else, take Power Attack with your normal feat, then switch the old Power Attack into Cleave. Bam, done. Personally, I'd even allow it without taking daily uses of the feat's power. --Ghostwheel (talk) 23:38, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, got it. I don't know if there's something weird that might keep people from realizing that the feat could be taken a second time though, since it's not specified.

Also, just to clarify, you would also not be allowed to turn the mutable feat into a feat you already have, such as Power Critical, for twice the benefit. Correct? --Maninorange (talk) 00:09, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Correct, the normal feat rules apply unless stated otherwise. --Ghostwheel (talk) 16:23, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Option Paralysis and Adaption Time

I complained about this a bit, so I figure I can offer up a few suggestions out of the rating:

• Change the action cost. It's a swift action if the feat is a [Fighter] feat, or a 1 minute action if it isn't. If you want it to be used in a fight you might as well let that happen, else push it to time when the game isn't already crawling along.
• Make them select a pool of feats (4-10) that includes the initial feat in the slot when they select this feat. So if they put this on a PA slot, they could turn that slot into PA or any of 3-9 other pre-selected feats. Oh, and let them replace any feat in this selection if it becomes a permanently known feat. Dumpster diving reduction ftw.
• Let them select feats that they don't qualify for but don't let them use them unless they qualify, or just let them empty the slot without using a daily change use. This avoids the weird feat shuffling you have at level up when the selected slot is needed for a feat chain.

I don't know if any or all of those are of interest to you, but I figured I'd toss them out there. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:26, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Bump! --Undead_Knave (talk) 14:17, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

How about a move action if it's a [Fighter] or [Metamagic] feat? --Ghostwheel (talk) 15:56, 16 July 2015 (UTC)