Talk:Tail Belt (3.5e Equipment)

Pricing Concerns

I just took a look at this whole set and I have concerns about how low the prices are. They're mostly pretty terrible on their own, which means that their prices are pretty justified, but the set bonuses are all really fantastic. For under 8k, you get: +5 to 2 skills, +3 to 2 others, +2 on flanks, scent, 2 weapons with a scaling enhancement that you can TWF with for no penalty without the feat, +10 untyped bonus to your speed, a feat, pounce, darkvision, low-light vision, an increase to range increments, an untyped bonus to 3 ability scores, and the ability to shape change into a wide variety of (admittedly mostly pretty similar) forms.

I understand that the low initial benefits are supposed to be the drawback, here, but some of the things on this list would be worth that price alone. This was the last of these that I looked at, so this is where I'm putting the comment, but it's a note for the set as a whole (obviously). --Undead_Knave (talk) 07:18, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! I've also made these considerations while making the set and your feedback is pivotal. What do you think? Should I lower the bonuses to skills? Make the untyped bonuses into typed ones? The greater magic weapon effect should be balanced, thinking that otherwise you would have it pretty easily thanks to the party druid. The shapechange ability has a form that is only flavorful, the real effect is a longer animalistic power spell + bite attack, good but shouldn't be anything not already achievable.

The idea behind the set is that it transforms the character in a natural predator, beginning with minor bonuses but staying semi-relevant later on. I wanted it to be accessible at lower levels, but I understand an increase in price good be useful, so if you have suggestions please tell.

P.S. I answered your comment on this page, so your comeback would be appreciated. Thanks for the feedback! --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 12:09, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

I think the skill bonuses are the least of the concerns. Typing the bonuses is something I'd suggest, but that alone won't do too terribly much. The real "problem" is that a lot of these things are really good. Darkvision and low-light vision are both a lot more useful than a lot of people think of them. Pounce is very strong and difficult for PCs to obtain. Even small speed increases can be game changers for some builds and Dash makes full attacks possible way more often.

I think these ideas can work, but the prices are way out of line. My actual thought might be (if you want this to be a set that does the transformation, but you also want to keep the extra abilities to split them into two separate sets (maybe even something like the Dire Predator's Armaments), super nerf the abilities of the current ones and raise the price on the other set.

Actually, better idea: make the "Set" version of them much more expensive (but better) and just remove the set bonuses from these ones. Make the transformation ability increase an Enhancement bonus. Raise the price on the claws (because those are still underpriced even with that in mind). So you end up with like "Wolf Pup Pelt" and "Dire Wolf Pelt" or something. The Wolf Pup Pelt is what you have now without the set bonuses, the Dire Wolf Pup does something about tripping with its first set bonus instead of increasing to the +5 at a much higher price and people acknowledge that a lot of the cost of the Dire Predator's Armaments is that their set bonuses are bonkers.

That being said, I passed this along to some other people who are way better at pricing stuff than me, so they may be able to help more specifically than just this spitballing?

I'm taking a look at Melodic Fighting right after this. I'll let you know there. --Undead_Knave (talk) 21:17, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Ok, typing bonuses won't be a problem, I'll get to it. I agree with dark and low-light vision, but those are probably the best ability of the earrings, so maybe I could just lower the range?. Pounce is powerful but is granted at level 1 by the totem lion barbarian: this version has three uses which, if you consume them, blocks the benefit to speed (which I should change though, maybe add some conditions) and lifts the benefits of Dash. DM's counter to this should be multiple fights or opponents.

I agree that it's underpriced and I'll gladly wait for your friends' opinions on the matter. The idea to create set and non-set variants is intriguing but noy my aim with these, so I'll pass. I'd really like the set to be something that a low level character could start acquiring and keep using later on while gaining new pieces. So I'll have to fix the price still, but maybe keep it affordable. Maybe sone requirements to unlock the set bonuses could be good, even just skill ranks marks, or maybe not...

I like the tripping idea, maybe I should change the set's first bonuses, which are kind boring. We'll see, I wait for your answer. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 22:13, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Frankly I would just increase the price of each item, as well as the bonus if need be. The belt and the claws could be up to 4,000 or 5,000 GP, while the earnings around 2,000 GP. The Wolf Pelt around 3,000 GP. I think it would set it about right where you need it price-wise so it not easy to get a low-level. --Leziad (talk) 00:45, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Between 13,000 and 15,000 in total so. I was thinking something like that too, though maybe still a bit on the lower side. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 05:37, 14 June 2021 (UTC)