Talk:Venerable Dragon (5e Otherworldly Patron)
A Bit Strong[edit]
Howdy folk, it's me, TK-Squared again - and I'm coming at you from the Otherworldly Patron 'Venerable Dragon' to give you my HOT TAKE on this. I saw this up and comer in the recently changed list and I thought that I'd check it out and well... Here's my opinion before I do any kind of rating: I think this Patron is a bit strong. I'm mostly comparing it against the The Fiend, which I believe is the SRD available Warlock patron. None of my complaints are that something is OBVIOUSLY overpowered, but just the individual components are strong and culminate in a very strong patron.
So, firstly, I'm going to start with my opinions on the spell-list because it includes the one spell that I never wanted to see on a Warlock spell-list and that's [[SRD5:Polymorph}}. The rest seems fine (Dragon's Breath is perfect obviously, I love Dragon's Breath). But Polymorph is just a spell that is specifically missed off every Warlock spell-list because it can be attained via an invocation (Sculptor of Flesh, PHB p111). I believe that the decision for Polymorph to be an invocation-level spell is because of the power of Polymorph itself, or something to that effect. I can see an argument for it to be added, but I feel like it's just not meant to be. This isn't a super deal breaker for me, it's just a complaint so far.
Draconic Blessing. Giving proficiency to Con out of the gate just seems a tad strong to me. I don't know of any class precedence about giving out saving throws at 1st level. I'll never base my thoughts on multiclassing problems - as multiclassing is an optional rule - but I don't know anyone that gets three saving throws out of the gate. Constitution is also a strong saving throw for spellcasters due to Concentration checks. The Fiend gets to get temporary hit points for killing people - which is quite a strong initial feature, but I don't know if it's as strong as Draconic Blessing.
Legendary Resistance. Eeeeeeeeeeeeh. Legendary Resistance three times a day is super strong. This is the class feature that I have some SERIOUS issues with, especially when the Fighter has Indomitable (re-roll failed saving throws) only twice per day at this point. Once a day, I could deal with this (The Fiend gets to throw someone through hell once per day), but three times a day? Oof, that feels very strong to me and I would want this to be nerfed down or changed.
Hopefully, that gets across my point just as a way to open a dialogue about the patron. --TK-Squared (talk) 08:40, 3 June 2019 (MDT)
- Thank you TK-Squared for your constructive criticism. I will certainly look at these and consider revisions. I am sorry that I am so late in responding to your comments. --Rlyehable (talk) 20:54, 21 November 2019 (MST)
- I have addressed a number of the issues you raised.
- 1. I have changed the Legendary Resistance to once per day.
- 2. I have moved the Wis save proficiency to start at 10th level (Draconic Blessing)
- 3. I have limited the Polymorph spell to 'self only'. I understand your reasoning, but feel that it is very thematic. Powerful dragons are know to polymorph themselves into humanoids or beasts in order to watch their domain without everyone/everything crying "dragon". I feel that the warlock being able to borrow this ability (through casting a spell) is thematic. Please let me know what your thoughts are. If it is too powerful as a spell, I may move it to be an ability instead (self only, once per day?).
