Talk:Vengeance (3.5e Cleric Domain)

First, the ability as stated is usable every time you are TARGETED by an attack or ability. That means that every tims eomeone attacks you, wether they miss or not, deal damage or not, you can automatically deal an unnamed damage that is not subject to save or spellresistance to that person. Since their is no limit to the number of times/day this is usable it means that everytime someone targets you and it meets the requirements you automatically deal 1d6/3 levels in damage.

I think you should limit this ability to once a day, ant I think it should actually be when a target successfully deals damage to you. And 1d6/3 levels is a tad to powerful. Maybe 1d6/4 levels, since it automatically hits. Also, the damage should be based on your cleric levels. It would also be fitting if the damage was defined as Divine/Profane damage, in my opinion.

Looking at the retribution domain: "The Retribution domain is a deity domain that grants divine spellcasters retribution spell powers. A spellcaster that has been previously harmed by someone may make a strike of vengeance against said individual once per day. This blow inflicts maximum damage."

ALSO.

Greater dispel magic is not, and should never be, listed as a 1st level spell. You could put it as level 5 (It is normally a level 6 spell) but I would NEVER allow it to be a level 1 spell in my game. Not as a DM or as a player.

This is a foolhardy claim. Limitations of domain powers to once a day abilities was a horrible idea from the start. Anyone who has played a cleric probably ignores half of them entirely because they suck ass, especially compared to the rest of the cleric's repertoire. ALSO, it's only 6d6 damage tops (because no one should ever play over level 20 since epic rules irreparably blow chunks). So whoop-de-doo for 20 damage. For the record, the Retribution domain ability has to compete with the abilities of the Magic, Travel, and War domains, which are actually what a domain power should look like. So way to cite a pretty terrible domain power, dude. It just makes this sound even more appealing (I'll admit, I'm biased).

Secondly, Greater dispel magic is the only version of dispelling that is actually good (regular dispel magic works in no way whatsoever because of the capped bonus). Because it scales with caster level and doesn't have a retarded maximum (or at least one that anyone can foreseeably acheive), it is perfectly acceptable to have GDM at level 1. - TG Cid 01:15, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Sign your posts and use a more compressed formatting. The damage is too much, but making it once per day is just making it mind-numbingly worthless. It should be a simple 2 damage at first, getting +1 per 3 levels, and then additional +1 per level after level 10 or something. This makes the damage scale properly (slowly at first, a lot faster later when it needs to) and also prevents annoying dicerolling every turn. It's fine if it applies to misses and is typeless. Also, an argument that "This is wrong and I would NEVER allow it" is not a good argument. Try again, maybe explaining why it's too good. Karrius 01:18, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

What the rest of them said. I do agree with Karrius, and I will make a correction similar to what he suggested, as this much out-of-turn rolling is probably a bit annoying.

In terms of our mysterious unsigned poster, I'd like to state that a spell's level indicates very little about its power. To give an example, compare polar ray and polymorph any object - they're spells at the same level, but power-wise nowhere near each other. This kind of thing is very common, as the designers of DnD didn't actually do a very good job of balancing them. Part of my work is to try and fix that issue. - MisterSinister 18:14, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The idea is sound but the wording and method isn't. I know what you MEANT, but the way its worded might say that someone attacks, and you proceed to take NI free actions dealing NI damage. That aside, the "on target" is bunk, it really should be "on hit" or "on damage". There is one more problem. While 20 damage isn't much, 20 damage with every hit can equickly become powerful. Especially against some.

"The two weapon fighter lines up to attack.... and he kills himself." It completely destroys any creature based on number of attacks rather than single solid damage.

Suggested rewrite: 20 damage, at will, 1/round as a non-action (because technically you do free actions on your turn, meaning you can't use this ability at all!). Then you actually have to make a tactical choice of who receives the pain, and a swarm of creatures or death by 1000 cuts still poses a threat of being overwhelmed. -- 10:12, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Level 8

With hijack out of magic, it seems like hijacking dispel might fit better here than over there. And discern location is easily the least in theme of these spells, so I don't think replacing it would be too problematic. It leaves a hole at magic 8 (if it's not in both), but that seems easy enough to shop around for. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 06:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC)