Talk:Overwhelming Curse (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

	The bluez in the dungeon favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	I see where you are going with this curse theme... and I like it! The feat is ok: one needs a kinda medium character level but the increase in DC is nice.

Little Much

A +4 bonus to the DC is a little much, consider at most a +2. This blows my Hex Focus feat away. It twice as potent as the very focused Ability Focus. --Leziad (talk) 18:26, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

I have kinda to disagree: this is probably because I'm unexperienced, but in my opinion a +1 to a specific DC for a feat is quite ridicolous, a +2 is barely noticeable. I favored this because of the relevant bonus (which hasn't anything else going on). But I understand it could be considered a bit too much. To me a +3 could be fine, or a +2 with something else. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 23:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

Messing with DCs is a tricky affair and even apparently small bonuses that stack can end up having a big effect of character output. People take Spell Focus (the school they want) after all, and that's a +1. As is, a +4 bonus is... first off, not Moderate by any stretch. If you wanted a more Moderate version, +1 to [Curses] with no other benefit.

Now, I bet you're like "but that sounds so weak, that's like a 5% increase in success." D&D math is weird, and no, it isn't a 5% increase (sorta), because it ignores the relevancy of how often you were already succeeding in getting those spells through. Will saves, for reference, scale the slowest out of monsters up until around CR 10, being one or two points lower on average than one of their other saves. CR 11 and 12 are kinda a mess for saves on average, not really increasing and being a bit all over the place, and the Reflex loses some ground as most monsters get big and sluggish. So, at that CR 10, you've got a monster with an average Will save of +9.

To find out how relevant that +9 is, we need to look at what our caster probably has for their DCs. Let's look at bestow curse (3rd). We've got an 8th level cleric with an okay starting stat of 16, +2 racial, +1@4th/8th from leveling, +2 enhancement. This is very modest. That makes this bestow curse a DC 19, so a monster succeeds half the time about. So, that monster will succeed about half the time. But we're not some part-time weekend caster who cares about orphans and alms for the poor and who generally uses a mace in combat, we're a fully invested curse-focused beast of an encounter ruiner.

Our caster actually has a starting 18, +2 racial, +1@4th/8th from leveling, +4 enhancement item, +1 Spell Focus (Necromancy) and we're a sorcerer and not a cleric so our spell is 4th level this time. Now are DC is 23 to start, so our CR 10 Averagoth needs to have the DM roll a 14 (35%) to succeed that save. But then our caster has Overwhelming Curse, now this challenging monster needs an 18 to succeed (15%). The slim chance this higher CR monster had to succeed has now been more than halved.


All this doesn't even really matter. It's just a bonus far and above comparable material that people do choose for their characters which is considered good. It's just too much. --Ganteka Future (talk) 20:06, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

I get it. Still I think the idea is worth it, so Neostar could think about a +2 (or whatever) and something else instead of the straight +4 (and an adjustment to the balance point, depending on what will be done). --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 14:59, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, the straight +4 is just out of the question. Even in Very High it's just too much. SRD:Ability Focus, which is actually pretty darn good, is +2 to a single ability. Something needs to be done about this feat, because right now that +4 is not tenable. --Ganteka Future (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

Feat has been changed! What do you think? --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 15:51, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Raising DCs must be done with careful consideration. This, unfortunately, goes past an investment to tweak numbers into your favor and on into imbalance. --Ganteka Future (talk) 20:20, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Let's see if Neostar comments --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 21:23, 17 January 2022 (UTC)