Talk:Stopping Power (3.5e Maneuver)

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	Foxwarrior dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	It's a cool effect, but I don't appreciate it at all when an effect's most important limits are dealt with by limply wringing your hands and saying "I dunno, maybe ask your DM?"

	Luigifan18 favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Oh, wow. This is some delicious no-sell action. I wonder if there's anything you can combine it with to make it even better?

Glad you liked it. Any idea what you're going for when you say "even better"? -SecondDeath777 00:08, 16 November 2017

Lemme just refresh my Wish maneuver here...

That's an odd pre-requisite. It's hard to tell if it's fluff, mechanics, or even just a suggestion.

As for the maneuver, while there's an idea in there it's not workable as is. Iron Heart Surge is often criticized for its poor wording, allowing for absurd but clearly not intended situations like "ending the sun". Sadly, this maneuver effectively takes that idea and runs with it. While that could be an idea, there doesn't seem to be any real limits on this maneuver. It's "ask your DM, the maneuver". Or known by it's other name, wish. Except wish spells out limits with the caveat you can break them with possible consequence. And comes with a hefty XP cost. And a not-unlimited spell slot. And isn't extraordinary (this maneuver makes no inclination its supernatural other than fluff). And has saves associated with it.

So yeah, as is this can't work.

How to salvage... perhaps spell it out as "for anything with a duration" (which includes permanent but not instantaneous), you can cause the duration to expire. Give it a range so you aren't dispelling Thor's Chalice of Infinite Beer 3 dimensions away. Give it a save, dispel check, or some other check to see if it works. And probably exclude artifacts and the like. That is still quite strong, and if you like you can specifically call out petrification, which is the only "instant" effect I can imagine you want to be reversing.

Mind you, the flavor for that might fit Devoted Spirit better. Iron Heart is very much one of the mundane effect disciplines, while DS is all divine magic.

You can keep the cooldown if you like, especially if it's for an unusually powerful effect. Otherwise this becomes "dispel anything" even if it's not magic, so you can dispel a disease or poison. Maybe steal some text from Ruby Ray of Reversal (SpC) which actually has a similar concept to this. Try seeking that spell out, and do not forget that maneuvers are far more spammable than spells. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:44, 14 November 2017 (MST)

Huh. Well, I was kinda going for a direct cancellation to any major thing ruining your day. An opposed check makes that a bit complicated. And, as most attacks lack duration, which are something I specifically had in mind for this, just things with duration would limit this to almost non-viable. Maybe non-permanent effects?

So, that in mind thanks for the help, and if you would be so kind, maybe you could update the framework you offered now that my intent is clearer? I would greatly appreciate it. As is, I don't trust myself to refine it alone, so if I don't get your go-ahead, I'll probably just scrap it. Thanks in advance.

Oh, and I chose a mundane discipline on purpose. The effective idea is you stop it through raw grit. Hence that bizarre pre-req. We don't give weaponized badass to non-badasses. -SecondDeath777 04:51, 14 November 2017

Ah ok, I see where you're going. Less, "let's dispel the wall of fire" and more "I block your Meteor Swarm with my fist". Ok, that is workable. Reminds me a bit of Supreme Ego Barrier (3.5e Power).

In that case something like this. Immediate action counter, cancel any one effect as if you were never targeted such as an attack, spell, or environmental effect such as damage from a fall. The canceled attack is still considered expended.

That alone is probably enough, you may or may not want to keep the burnout thing. It covers pretty much anything, but prevents things like canceling the sun because it has to be an event which is occurring to you, rather than a pre-existing duration. That's pretty short and sweet too I think. I don't particularly see the non-maneuver pre-req as needed: if you've got a 9th level maneuver you should auto-qualify anyway. Four/five maneuvers known is enough. Move the fluff out of the mechanics and I think we're gold. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:49, 14 November 2017 (MST)

Thank you dearly, my man. I added that it ends the effect instead of merely exempting you from it, but I also made abusing it really wicked hard. Hope that does the trick. -SecondDeath777 12:09, 14 November 2017

Edit: Gave you credit for the help on the main page, by the way.