User talk:Luigifan18/Dark Sun Rising (3.5e Spell)
Ratings[edit]
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Stryker opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4. |
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| Long and sometimes poorly written description and too many extraneous effects. Sun of darkness is a cool idea, Sun of darkness that is maddening like Cthulhu while also being beautifully mesmerizing that is also a black hole is way too much crap for an 8th level spell. Also, the bracketed in-character descriptions and the 4th wall breaking jokes aren't that great of an idea either. |
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Undead Knave opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4. |
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| Every part of this is bad. |
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Foxwarrior opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4. |
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| At least put the confused nonsense in italics if you're going to keep it in the mechanics section.
An area of automatic death could be an interesting sort of 8th or 9th level battlefield control spell by itself, if done in a somewhat less harsh way. Your "can't be placed on a creature" restriction has some rather strange interactions with the suddenly useful "bag of pidgeons" defensive strategy. Being transfixed by strange things is just as unreasonable as it was last time, and when combined with the damage that doesn't untransfix people, this is a Will-based Save or Die with an eighth of a mile radius. Well, given that you can shake people out of it, this too would work fine by itself as an 8th or 9th level spell with some tweaks. |
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Tarkisflux opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4. |
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| This spell is not an 8th level spell by any metric. It's 3/4+ mile of "no light" darkness that otherwise functions like natural sunlight. Then it adds on a fascinate effect if you can see it (it's up to 100' tall and you can see it inside the darkness effect, so you probably can at extreme range). There are also some other minor related effects tossed in for the hell of it. It lasts for 15 minutes. And for a large area VH spell with a 1 round cast time (as opposed to the 1-10 minute cast time normally seen with large area stuff), that's probably workable. It just doesn't stop there.
It then bolts on a 750+' area of (CL/3)d6 no-save fire damage each round that you can't notice if you're fascinated. And a 25' radius save or die that radiates out from the sphere, which is itself a 50' radius no-save-just-die effect. These effects also last for 15+ minutes (or 150+ rounds). Forget the damage, this right here is a 75' radius save or die for 15+ minutes thing, and that's nuts at any balance level and any non-epic spell level. This seems like a classic case of a cool sounding idea that got taken to an unnecessary conclusion for whatever reason, and in the process ran way, way over budget. I would laugh at any player that asked to use it. |
Only an idiot would willingly approach the dark sun once it's placed; it's immobile. The only way you'd wind up inside the sun is if someone threw you in (well, technically, they could bull-rush you, but that would be suicidal) or if it got conjured right in your face and you're a flyer with clumsy, poor, or maybe average maneuverability. I included the clause that the sun can't be summoned directly on top of a character specifically to avoid no-save-just-die cheesiness. --Luigifan18 (talk) 22:47, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
- I don't think you're going to convince Tarkisflux by telling him that one phrase in his multi-paragraph angry rant is an exaggeration. --Foxwarrior (talk) 23:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
- Awesome blow, gust of wind, control winds, divert teleport... that's the short list of things on top of bullrush that I could be bothered to pull from a 2 minute trawl through the SRD. I'm sure I could find quite a lot more if I wanted to make a complete survey. If you don't think it's necessary to the spell and you don't think it's going to come up, remove it. Otherwise expect people to abuse it. - Tarkisflux Talk 00:09, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
- Exactly. Throwing people in, blowing them in with winds, etc. are all fair game. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:13, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
- And I don't think that 15 minutes of that sort of kill people tactic is fine. I like the idea of a black sun that radiates nighttime, blocks mundane light / low level light spells, and fascinates people, but the rest is way more than I think appropriate for a level 15 character. YMMV, and seemingly does in this case.
- I don't rate things as a way of berating people into making changes that I approve of, I rate things as they are and don't expect anything after. That's why I try to make suggestions before I rate things. When you elected to do something else I left a rating detailing my rather strong feelings on it to warn users about what I think are serious problems with the spell. I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong, because it may well be a playstyle issue that has no right answer but deserves a warning to casual users. If you're happy with it, ignore my rating and move on. We'll find common ground elsewhere. - Tarkisflux Talk 01:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC)
Comments[edit]
You asked, so here's what I got.
A 1 round casting time spell that created darkness out to a minimum radius of 7500' feet (almost 1.5 miles). That on it's own might be an 8th level spell just for the sheer size involved. You'd probably never cast it because it's overkill, but it's an 8th level area IMO. Adding on fascination for everyone that can see it (it's 100' tall, and we can assume you can see that from 2 miles away), an at least 750' (50' x 15 level minimum) radius minimum 7d6 fire damage, and a 75' radius save or die reflex zone (assuming you even get a save if you're within the 50' radius sun) every round for a minimum of 15 minutes is not an 8th level spell. You suggest in the comments that it's missing something and needs more, but I think that's exactly backwards. It needs less. Less range and less duration if you don't want to cut any effects, though I think you could cut effects here too. There are mass SoDs at this level, but this goes way beyond that. Also less spell lists to appear on (personal gripe).
You also need a discussion about how you can see something that radiates darkness in the first place. I'd suggest allowing that to be the only thing you can see in the radius, and just having it be mesmerizing or whatever. Your discussion about confusion is way too "in character" and 4th wall breaking for me, and it makes it harder for me to figure out what is actually going on in the spell (not that I was happy when I did figure it out).
The comment about immunity to fire stopping the immolation but not stopping the death is unnecessary and annoying. Just pull it and go with the crushing death thing for everyone. Unless that gets cut (and I'd cut it). - Tarkisflux Talk 06:54, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
- Bump. - Tarkisflux Talk 05:08, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
- Heh... that reminds me of my time on GameFAQs... anyways, I didn't make radical changes, but I did give it a minor overhaul - some more clarity on what it does and doesn't do, and I think a minor nerf here and there. --Luigifan18 (talk) 05:19, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
- I like the concept of the spell, but it could use some mechanical tweaks as discussed above. However you should really remove the confusion in the text and make it separated from mechanics, because that really annoying to read. Imagine if they did that for say Color Spay....
- A vivid cone of clashing colors springs forth from your hand... how is this... where was I... Oh Yeah causing creatures to become stunned (so many colorso many color so many colors!), perhaps also blinded, since it bright colors and bright colors do that, and possibly knocking them unconscious (colors again!).
- Each creature within the cone is affected according to its Hit Dice. Since the stronger you are the most resistant to colors you are!
