Talk:Dragoon's Leap (3.5e Maneuver)

Ratings

Tarkisflux dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.

Foxwarrior's critique is spot on, though the odds of getting a sufficiently large bag of allies seems low. It does invite complex trajectory math and ally placement if you want to try to get a large number of them though (despite the limit of Long range), which is unfortunate. And there's basically zero justification for the charge holding, which is particularly sad because this could have been a move action boost that let you add damage to a strike/attack at the end, and sort of resolved itself. So I am disappoint, but it's not so broken (without Xanatos gambit style setup anyway) as to warrant an oppose from me.

	Luigifan18 likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	I have to concur with Fluffykittens here. And anyone who tries to bag-of-rats this deserves to suffocate in space for it (or to be reduced to a bloody smear when they land). That said, I have to agree with Foxwarrior that you shouldn't be able to perform this in advance.

Oh, but you don't take fall damage when you jump, and suffocation is a minor problem. --Foxwarrior (talk) 01:27, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

You take less fall damage when you jump. You only take none if something explicitly prevents you from taking fall damage or reduces it to 0, which this maneuver doesn't. And suffocation, a minor problem when in outer space? Uh, I don't buy that. And there are ways to make it a problem. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:35, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, suffocation and 1d4 damage a round isn't a problem when you arrive at the targeted location before your turn ends. --Foxwarrior (talk) 01:42, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

	Fluffykittens is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	A trampoline enchanted with this maneuver next to a friendly beehive/anthill can be used as an orbital launch platform. This maneuver is funny, though clearly not on purpose.

	Foxwarrior opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Uncapped bag of rats abilities without even a moral restriction are bad. The part where you can 'hold' the bonus damage is also both hopelessly unbalanced (pre-combat buffing, anyone?) and undermines the coherence of the maneuver (if the bonus damage isn't related to the quarter-mile jump, what's the justification for putting both of them into one maneuver?)

Within 10 feet of your trajectory

A jump normally reaches one quarter as high as it is far. When you're jumping 800 feet, this means you'll only get a bonus if you have cheerleaders standing next to you, boosting you into the air, or you happen to jump through a flock of friendly birds.

On that note, this is a really good bag of rats/pack of pigeons ability, since the rats don't even get killed. --Foxwarrior 19:24, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

What the hell is a "bag of rats" ability?!? --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:26, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Bag of Rats tricks refer to having a bunch of creatures (the "bag of rats") to pull off shenanigans with other abilities. For example, if you have that feat which lets you make a 5 foot step when you cleave (I forget the name of the feat) and a bag of rats, you kill a rat, move 5ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft, greater cleave a rat, move 5 ft.... you get the idea. And suddenly you've moved 5 light years in 6 seconds.

Bag of Rats is a means of rules abuse. Thought, IMHO, I don't really see the problem with this one, even if you can "bag of rat" it. The abuse here is using your bag of rats to launch you into orbit. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:34, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

There's the +1d6 damage per 5 points of Jump check bit. So you launch into orbit, then come down again, walk into a bar, sit down, grab a drink, then punch the planet so hard it dies. --Foxwarrior (talk) 01:46, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Whoops, Per 5 point, thought it was just 1d6.

Yeah, that part could be a problem. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:51, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay... now I'm really, really scared of what Kyurem could do with a bag of rats... I think I see why there's a limit to how much a barghest can feed before certain creatures stop giving it HD... At least Kyurem could only gain so much HD before its Pokémaster could no longer order it around. (Which is a good thing, because the world would be utterly f***ed if Kyurem got too powerful.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:15, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Bag of Rats abuse on Kyurem fixed. Yeesh, that could have been scary... --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

I think the concern of bag of rats is on this maneuver, not Kyurem (though it's good you sealed that loophole). (EDIT: Silly me, this isn't even your maneuver. You've done well then.) -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:53, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I can totally see someone using this maneuver to leap all the way around the planet and murderize someone behind where he started. Hilarity ensues. --Luigifan18 (talk) 03:07, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

...I'm giving this maneuver to Heracross. --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:32, 4 November 2012 (UTC)