Talk:E=mc^2 (3.5e Spell)

If Greatswords and these explosions had the same damage efficiency

Let's say the greatsword is swung at 30 mph, because it's only a Strength 10 wielder. That's 8 lbs * 30 mph * 30 mph / 2 dice = 2700 imperial energy units per d6 of damage. A 1d6 explosion is divided among approximately 268 targets, so it has an energy value of 20 lbs * c mph * c mph / 268 targets / 1 die = 0.075 * c² energy units per d6 of damage per target.

Solving for c such that it's the same amount of energy puts the speed of light at about 1.3 billion miles per hour, which may seem fast to you. --Foxwarrior (talk) 23:43, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I must have done something wrong, because that's a sensible number, and this is supposed to be stronger than 20 pounds of plutonium. --Foxwarrior (talk) 23:55, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so it's 2.5 times heavier, which means you can divide v² by 2.5. It's half as many dice, so you can divide v² by 2. It's 268 times as many targets (pretending that Medium is the most sane thing in this case), so you can multiply v² by 268. Thus, v² in the case of light should be 53.6 times as much as in the case of a greatsword, so it should be 48240 mph² instead of 900. Taking the square root of that, we arrive at a speed of light of 220 miles per hour. There we go; that sounds more like what I was expecting. --Foxwarrior (talk) 00:06, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Are you saying I overpowered this or underpowered it? --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:41, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm saying that if you want the speed of light in your world to be closer to the speed of light in the real world, you should reduce the amount of matter destroyed per d6 of damage by a factor of about 30 million. --Foxwarrior (talk) 04:28, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Would that scale the overall damage up or down? --Luigifan18 (talk) 04:52, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

2.5d6 per level is probably a perfectly decent value. The topic here isn't balance. The topic is E=Mc². --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:37, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Strictly speaking...

As variables/constants rather than units, E, m, and c should all be italicized -- which, since they are already italicized as part of the spell name, revert to roman typeface in everything but the header for the spell template. The italic "=" is identical to the roman "=", so the superscript ² would be the only thing to remain visibly italic.

Somewhat more importantly, m should be lowercase. A capital M more commonly denotes moment of force. --DanielDraco (talk) 08:30, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, the usual stylistic preference in typing equations is to put a space on either side of the equals sign. --DanielDraco (talk) 08:35, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Duly noted. --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Now, for the game elements

Not to distract you from how a level 15 Wizard in your implied setting can walk around a corner and blast someone with an Enlarged fireball before the light of the Wizard's appearance reaches her targets, but isn't this just telekinesis with a fireball option? --Foxwarrior (talk) 19:19, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Yep, it is. But it's the fireball option alone that pushes it up to level 9 status; the rest is essentially a nice bonus. Take a closer look - a creature or object made to explode is destroyed. If you blow up a creature, that creature is dead, and can only be revived with true resurrection. This is a mass save-or-die, in more than one sense of the word "mass". With enough caster levels, you can blow up a dragon. Or a castle. And everything near said dragon or castle is going to be thoroughly roasted... but that's really just an awesome side effect of the fact that you forcibly converted a dragon into a bomb and made it EXPLODE with your mind. (And by the way, since this is a level 9 spell, your caster level needs to be at least 17 to cast it. Make that 18 if you're a sorcerer.) As for what this spell can and can't affect... that's the same as telekinesis, except that you can affect twice as many pounds of stuff per caster level and there's no cap on how much you can affect. Again, that's nice for the three options carried over from telekinesis, but somehow I get the feeling everyone who takes this spell is going to be taking it primarily so they can blow stuff up with their minds. Hopefully this is passable as a vector-themed spell anyways, 'cause that's why I made it. (I still need a level-8 vector spell for the Justice Shuriken's spell-like ability list. --Luigifan18 (talk) 19:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

From what I can read, the explode creature does not grant a save for the destroyed creature. Am I correct? --Leziad (talk) 19:58, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit conflict

Oh dear. So light going at mach 0.5 is necessary for this spell to work.

But throwing things about really has almost nothing to do with E=mc². I advise that you toss out all those telekinesis effects and replace them with a conversion from energy to matter instead: E=mc² goes both ways, you know, and turning explosions into castles would be fun. --Foxwarrior (talk) 20:00, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Explosions into castles? Check this out.--Franken Kesey (talk) 20:10, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I think I see where you are going, Luigifan18, and while it may seem reasonable, it is actually the path of madness. Consider the difference between detonating ten 20 pound iron ingots, and detonating one 200 pound iron statue. The statue is a larger size category than any one of the ingots, so it will deal the same damage in a bigger radius. --Foxwarrior (talk) 20:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

A creature that you cause to explode with this spell is entitled to a Will saving throw to avoid exploding. This spell is derived from telekinesis, which means that potential victims are allowed to defend themselves in the same fashion.

Detonating 10 20-pound iron ingots would make ten fireballs, while detonating the 200-pound iron statue would generate only one. However, the fireballs from the ingots would be smaller and weaker than the fireball from the statue. Therefore, the ingot explosions would actually cover a greater area (perhaps - I haven't done the math yet), though the damage would be more spread out. I just think having an object that covers a 30-foot square explode into a 20-foot fireball is monumentally dumb, as the fireball won't get to really do anything. Any player who realizes that is going to be saying "Lame". It may be just a bonus, but dagnabit, bigger objects should have bigger explosions!

As for the telekinesis, well, kinetic energy's a form of energy, too, I'm really not sure how one would go about making a spell that converts an explosion (or lightning strike, or other expression of energy) into an object, and I want to have the concept of vectors represented in this spell - telekinesis is perhaps the best spell I can think of (other than teleportation spells) for that concept. (Nailed to the sky is an excellent vector spell, considering that it effectively launches the target into space.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:53, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

It's a stack of ingots. The actual space they occupy is the same as that of the single statue, so the damage is not spread out but the area is smaller. If you demand some sort of compromise, I recommend measuring from the edges of the object rather than the center, and bringing the radius up to 100 feet would make the speed of light more like Mach 60.

Kinetic energy is a form of energy, yes, and that's how I (eventually) estimated the speed of light for you. However, "manipulate energy and mass" is too broad an objective for a single spell (or spell school), so you should really aim for a more restrained design goal. That's why I recommend a conversion of energy to things, because E=mc² serves to provide that conversion rate. --Foxwarrior (talk) 23:26, 19 November 2012 (UTC)