Talk:Electroconvulsive (3.5e Feat)
+1 spell level
Given the effect is "turns your damage spell into a save or effectively die", +1 spell level is awful cheap. We should be looking at +4 minimum here. Otherwise here come my 1st level electric joltSpC cantrips of ultimate destruction, taking down paralysis immune tarrasques. They have to roll a 1 eventually. —-- Eiji-kun (talk) 17:53, 23 January 2018 (MST)
- Well, considering that a coup de grace attack is much harder than usual for the helpless condition (read: has a non-negligible chance of failure to inflict extra damage and possibility of instant death), it’s about as much of a “save or die” as color spray is — sure, the victim is rendered a complete non-threat for a little while, and you have a solid opening to follow up for major damage without having to worry about attacks of opportunity, sudden evasive maneuvers (such as, say, quickened dimension door), and other such annoyances, but you can’t flat-out kill them unless you have a real save-or-die (such as phantasmal killer or finger of death) or can deal an utter crapload of damage within your window of opportunity. Plus, this is restricted to damage-dealing electric spells, which is an inherent balancing factor to compensate for giving a spell level discount. I agree that it’s too strong for +1 spell level, but I reckon it can get away with +3, or maybe even +2. --Luigifan18 (talk) 10:31, 24 January 2018 (MST)
- (Test success).
- The helpless is terrible. This would be a save or lose, which is usually just a penalty or something. Not only is the duration "may as well be dead" tier reserved for the likes of Irresistable Dance, but if you have 1 ally other than yourself than the action cost of coup de grace is effectively nil. Not that making coup de grace harder matters (you just need to hit it normally... wait, actually that makes it easier by dropping from a provoking full round action to a single attack action!); not only does it still allow it but the key here is the loss of actions. Actions are the most important thing to have in D&D, and their denial is always very strong. Stunning is feared for the lack of acting, not the fact you drop your weapons. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 15:34, 25 January 2018 (MST)
- Since I see it's being edited, I should deploy some advice for the author. At the moment this metamagic turns any electrical spell into a save or die. That's a fine idea, but the level adjustment is too low for that concept. You can help find the balance by asking "if I applied this to the lowest spell level possible (in this case a cantrip), what's the lowest level spell I can have this save or die?" 1st level is no realm for a save or die. I'm thinking 4th and up.
- Do be aware that you've introduced a new status with no particular immunities (other than immunity to electricity). For example this can apply this to something without a nervous system right now. You may be better off defining this as paralysis that has the following special qualities, rather than a new status.
- No matter how you look at this though that is a killer effect. It'd be a spell on its own, but it's stapled to another spell for a very cheap price. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 20:44, 25 January 2018 (MST)
- I myself mentioned in the Discord chat that I'd likely give it a less severe save-or-suck, and probably bump it to +2 spell level - On a failed save, the target would be knocked prone and stunned for 1 round, then Staggered for 1d4 rounds. That's similar to what I've done on some of my projects, so I figured it would work here. But, that's just my opinion. --Zhenra-Khal (talk) 01:50, 26 January 2018 (MST)