Talk:Sublime Assassin (3.5e Class)

From Dungeons and Dragons Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

Ratings[edit]

RatedFavor.png Spanambula favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
Having playtested this class several times with both ranged and melee PCs, I can say that this is a very adaptable and fun class for someone looking to play a killer. Definitely one of my faves, though with the others below I think a good case could be made for High level instead of VH.


RatedFavor.png BackHandOfFate favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
Although I disagree with the 'very high' balance listing, this class has earned a positive rating. This Assassin is by far the most fun I've had with a stealth class, yet. The martial maneuvers gave it the right amount of utility and flavor to make it stand out from the Rogue, but not enough to make it overshadow any of the core TOB classes. Depending on the skill system (Pathfinder, etc), Skillmonkeying is still viable for this class despite it's relatively average skillpoints. Some martial maneuvers and stances negate the need for certain skills altogether which help alot. All in all, a very positive experience.


Skills[edit]

This class has Diamond Mind on its list of available disciplines but Concentration is not a class skill. What the Hell? 78.84.205.102 21:28, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

A minor oversight. --Leziad 01:25, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Discipline List.[edit]

Why not Tiger Claw? Seems like a given for an assassin type character.

Like it needs any more power? >_> Why not just give it Stone Dragon too, since that can also be finagled as an assassin-type discipline? In fact, just about every discipline can be worded the right way (except maybe Devoted Spirit and/or White Raven) to fit an "assassin" (which is a very broad term in and of itself). --Ghostwheel 00:08, October 19, 2009 (UTC)
The generality of the term "Assassin" aside, when someone comes to me and says. "I wanna play a character that is like an assassin, but i wanna be good aligned." The Tiger Claw discipline would immediately come to mind. The ninth level manuever for the tiger claw discipline is, basically, a death attack with a different skill check involved. My personal opinion is to drop iron heart and pick up tiger claw.
So, it uses the Warblade recovery method and has a bunch of Swordsage disciplines. As far as for using alternate homebrewed disciplines which of the base Initiators would you consider this closest to? Karuma 15:13, September 12, 2010 (UTC)

Changing the Balance Point[edit]

Is there any practical way to change this from a wizard-level class to a rogue-level class without handing the class a bunch of empty levels, or kicking it in the nuts in any other obvious way? I was thinking of dropping the BAB down to medium, and maybe spacing out the abilties that seem to be all over the first 10 levels and very absent in 14, 16, and 18. --For Valor 05:28, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: Nvm... I think I found it... --For Valor 05:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
EDIT AGAIN: All right, I really don't like the rogue-level fix for the Assassin, as it's chock-full of dead levels and gross. I would much rather find some other way of balancing the class. --For Valor 05:41, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Well he get maneuvers, so it not really dead-levels. --Leziad 06:05, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
Actually, IS this wizard level? Well, the Full BAB is probably pushing it, so you could drop it to medium, and I have concern with the dippability og getting Dex to damage so soon. But you could spread that benefit out, Weapon Finesse basically at 1st, then Dex to damage at 4th. And then...
Well then it just seems like a fair initiator class. If the initiator classes are good examples of rogue, and it has more or less even trades of class features with, say, swordsage or warblade, then it should be able even level. I'm not actually seeing the wizard-level part of it.
But about the dead levels, looks like you have horror vaccui (me too). Perhaps throw a minor gimme power in there after reducing the BAB and delaying Dex to damage. Give them bonus feats from a small list: Skill feats mostly. It's paltry, but it's something to keep them busy and, being a skillful class, it actually does help. Also, what Leziad said, editing while I am apparently.  :P -- Eiji-kun 06:07, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Balance point too high[edit]

I've had the opportunity to test this class in a number of scenarios. I can say that it is incredibly effective. That said, I do not agree with the 'very high' balance point given to this class. I see that some are arguing that the class is high powered because of a full BAB. Allow me to disagree. As you can see by visiting the rating guide for balance points, none of the standard classes in the 'very high' category have a full BAB. I view this class more as a mix between a rogue and swordsage (neither of which have very high balance points). Sure, you have high BAB, but you have less skills than either a Rogue OR Swordsage. Yes, you have dex to damage, but that only makes you passable at the role you were made for: Stealth Combat. Yes, you have maneuvers, but none of the TOB classes are considered 'very high' powered. Aside from that, you get the worst refreshing mechanic for them while only being able to ready a handfull at any given time. The swordsage's full round action refresh is at least offset by the fact that he gets to ready alot of maneuvers. This limits the usefulness of maneuvers for this class barring feats to lessen said limitations. They do give the Assassin a bit of much needed utility (especially shadow hand) in the form of alternate methods of travel, etc. I see nothing in this class that puts it on the same level as a Wizard or Druid. -- BackHandOfFate 13:22, 8 August 2012 (PST)

Dat mysterious creation date...[edit]

So mystery. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 10:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

HERESY[edit]

No Surreptitious Bandit OR Thousand Daggers. U wot m8? What's more, there's a class feature CALLED Anatomical Knowledge, but Heal isn't a class skill! This thing needs an update, Lezi. Say the word, I'll do it for you. -SecondDeath777 23:42, 15 November 2017

Update will be incoming soon, this is an old class that seriously need it. --Leziad (talk) 08:52, 16 November 2017 (MST)
That's a relief. Also, maybe give the Death Attack a little sooner? Shinobi gives it at 3rd level, making Shinobi an excellent choice for assassin-like builds early game. Maybe not 3rd, but how about 5th? And I doubt I need to say this: The higher levels could use less...dead. Even if it's just spins & improvements on pre-existing class abilities, we gotta have SOMETHING. Alright, rant over. Go work your magic, magic man. -SecondDeath777 13:22, 16 November 2017
I am starting a large scale rework of the class. It was just a rogue-warblade beforehand, I felt it could be better exploited in other manners. Tell me what you think, your feedback is important. --Leziad (talk) 20:30, 19 November 2017 (MST)
Very nice. It feels very broad, but assassination is a broad profession. I do enjoy the blank slate feel, and the Killer's Talents are a nice addition, making the higher levels feel ripe with content. It's adaptability is fun, and feels right. But two things. Although this is minor, this class could use Organic Repast. Always felt pretty assassin-y, what with the poison and abuse of biology. Totally optional, but it'd make me happy. The second thing is...this class is missing something. A showstopper. Some big class feature at Level 20 that makes you go "Woah." Add that, and we're talking business. Whatever it is, make it fearsome, and fun. But, for nitpicks: 4 Stances is a tad strict. Your prerogative, there are workarounds, but still. Also, the Sublime Samurai's Delay Strikes would make a fun Killer's Talent. I tend to get playful with it, drawing out fights, and occasionally avoiding an attack by causing the poor fool's arm to fall off, but flavor wise, sticking it on a Death Attack is a great way of forcing others to serve your whims, holding someone's livelihood hostage to play a bigger fish into your hands. Of course, the Improved version should be available too so you can prolong them to that extreme if you go for it. In addition, the Rapid and Sudden Death Attacks from the Shinobi would be good Killer's Talents as well, probably locked behind higher levels of course. So, that said, the flexibility crossed with the lethality of this class makes it a good time, and suitable for a whole host of cool characters. As it stands, it's a bloody good start. But I know you, Leziad. A start is all this is. The best is yet to come. Best of luck with Round 2. -SecondDeath777 01:40, 20 November 2017

Fuck. Me.[edit]

RatedFavor.png SecondDeath777 favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
THIS is what I'm talking about! Hot diggity damn, that's a spicy meatball!
FavoredSpanambula +, BackHandOfFate + and SecondDeath777 +